Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

[USResident]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@Fraudz

and what about face? the link that you posted states this..

The differences concerning women’s hijaab mentioned here stem from ijtihad. The

most correct view is that it is obligatory for a woman to cover all of her body, including the face, hands, hair and all the rest of her body in front of non-mahram men, because of the general meaning of the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

*“…and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)…” [al-Noor24:31] *

this cannot be achieved without covering the face, and it is even more appropriate that the hair and other parts of the body should be covered; it is haraam to show them.

later the same scholar avoids the issue of face.
so what is right, yeah i got the point about covering the body, fine, many things accomplish that ..so its not a huge issue.
but for the item many ppl refer to as hijab, is it supposed to cover hair completely? what about the ears, some stick em out some dont, what about the face. I mean either it is right to leave te face uncovered or it is not.

Here is your answer from the same group of scholars:

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2198&ln=eng

@Fraudz

We continue to show interpretations by scholars, using logic (which is so hated in some circles on this forum) and basing on statements from other human beings.
thus in the end they are still interpretations, however well intentioned they may be, even if we take out personal or cultural bias from the equation..it can not be guaranteed that it is accurate.

If it was a slam dunk, there would not be differences among the scholars and diff schools of thought. how do we know which one is right, how do we know any one is right. We cant..we can use our best judgement, look at all the evidence and statements ..be most careful, and yet we can still be wrong.

Its as accurate as it gets. All our knowledge is based on transmission from generation to generation. The only yardstick you have is to measure it against the Quran and see that it does not violate it. I agree that hadith are not 100% accurate and there are levels of accuracy, which is why they are validated against the Quran and historical evidence, I would emphasize historical evidence here because everything we follow today is understood through historical accounts. From all indications of historical accounts it is obvious what covering meant in those days.

@Fraudz

by this verse that yo have posted, the trasnlation of it indicates that a niqab where two or even only one eye can see the ay is the way to go..

*‘O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed’ [al-Ahzaab 33:59] *

the statements in the paranthesis are the interpretations of the person, and I am not sure how the leap is made from draw their veils all over their body..to…cover except the eyes..

The statements in the parathesis exist because there is no one to one word for the Arabic terminology used, so it must be expressed as a brief sentence to explain it better. This is not uncommon between languages even today. Generations earlier than us and closer to the time of the Prophet SAW obviously had better understanding of the language of the Quran than scholars of Arabic today. You can’t deny that. This is one reason why to understand scriptures it is better understood through historical accounts or explanations closer in time to that scripture.

@Fraudz

even as I look at the hadeeth posted, what do I see…4, 5, 6 levels of transmitters..

examples..

Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4100 with more than one isnaad from Safiyyah bint Shaybah).
1)Ibn Jareer said (18120):
2)Yoonus told us,
3)Ibn Wahb informed us that
4)Qarqarah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan told him from
5)Ibn Shihaab from ‘Urwah that
6)‘Aa’ishah said:

mid you, not the prophet. so that would be 7 steps

Ibn Abi Haatim said:
1)my father told us,
2)Ahmad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Yoonus told us,
3)al-Zanji ibn Khaalid told me,
4)‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Uthmaan ibn Khaytham told us, that
5)Safiyah bint Shaybah said: whilst we were sitting with ‘Aa’ishah, mention was made of the women of Quraysh and how good they were.
6)‘Aa’ishah said

again, the next step would be to hear somethin from the prophet, 7 steps.

Al-Bukhaari also said (4759):
1)Abu Na’eem told us,
2)Ibraaheem ibn Naafi’ told us,
3)from al-Hasan ibn Muslim,
4)from Safiyyah bint Shaybah that
5)‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) used to say:

6 steps removed from the prophet

Really now..one error, one misunderstanding, one thing misheard, would
and how much of a person’s own view and understading gets mixed in along the way, impacted by cultural biases and preferences.

anyways..thank you for the info.

I guess this scholar is saying that only eyes should be visible, or like one eye..maybe women should wear shades so even that one eye is not visible?

I think if you believe Quran is the word of God then you should with little doubt believe in ahadith and historical accounts, which have been categorized as Sahih by concensus of all scholars. I say this because if you deny the hadith based on the levels of transmission and knowledge being passed on from generation to generation then don’t forget Quran reached us by transmission from generation to generation as well. However you do not doubt the Quran because it contains a guarantee from Allah that it cannot be corrupted, a statement of the Quran which has also been transmitted to us via the same people and generations that transmitted hadith to us. If you read between the lines of this statement of mine, it will put your faith to the test in a very stressing manner. Things like these are what separate the boys from the men. Think many times before you reply to this so you do not fall into fitnah or shirk.

There are very good reasons why we are encouraged to follow the example of our Prophet SAW, the companions and the tabieen and not to question everything to death. Things have been explained for us and we should obey and submit to them. This is where our faith is really put to the test and the integrity of our character and firm belief comes into play. This is also what separates the believers from the true believers or those who are believers by tongue only.

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@USResident

I think if you believe Quran is the word of God then you should with little doubt believe in ahadith and historical accounts, which have been categorized as Sahih by concensus of all scholars. I say this because if you deny the hadith based on the levels of transmission and knowledge being passed on from generation to generation then don’t forget Quran reached us by transmission from generation to generation as well. However you do not doubt the Quran because it contains a guarantee from Allah that it cannot be corrupted, a statement of the Quran which has also been transmitted to us via the same people and generations that transmitted hadith to us. If you read between the lines of this statement of mine, it will put your faith to the test in a very stressing manner. Things like these are what separate the boys from the men. Think many times before you reply to this so you do not fall into fitnah or shirk.

There are very good reasons why we are encouraged to follow the example of our Prophet SAW, the companions and the tabieen and not to question everything to death. Things have been explained for us and we should obey and submit to them. This is where our faith is really put to the test and the integrity of our character and firm belief comes into play. This is also what separates the believers from the true believers or those who are believers by tongue only.

That is a very arrogant thing for you to say. It is not up to your interpretation or understanding of what differentiates a believer from a non believer. Please edit your post and leave such heavy judgments for Allah.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

US resident point well taken, however quran was memorized in the prophets life and was recorded and compiled very soon afterwards. Additionally Allah himself guaranteed the authenticity and protection fo Quran.

If we go by your statement " think if you believe Quran is the word of God then you should with little doubt believe in ahadith and historical accounts, which have been categorized as Sahih by concensus of all scholars."

muslom and bokhari shoud have also not done any research because it were hadith they were hearing that were passed down..but they did their due diligence thank god and rejected what they thought and felt was wrong. I dont think they got it all right, and they felt the same, thus labelling many hdaeeth as weak..statistically if hadeeth were rejected, and hadeeth were labeleld weak, and kabelled strng, there is possibility that some good ones got tossed, some weak ones are wrong or may be saheeh, and some saheeh are maybe weak or maybe incorrect.

hadeeth were done much later, so memoris fading, things creeping in, aftr all these were all humans, and who knows what came in where attributed to whom. After all bokhari and Muslim both tossed out many hadeeth right. who am I to doubt the people who these were attributed to, but as it got passed down..things could have happened, things could have also been made up. Just because these people were a few generations after the prophet and sahaba does not mean they did not have any human weaknesses.

No slippery slope here and no issue with me falling into fitnah and shirk. Quran is at a very different level than hadeeth..and while I am not going to go contrary to hadeeth in general, there is no harm in trying to find out more about hadeeth..everyone should.

anyways. I think that is a much broader topic and would be well served in a seperate thread, thic current topic on hijab is pretty much exhausted what ppl could contribute here.

[USResident]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@Khehkeshan

That is a very arrogant thing for you to say. It is not up to your interpretation or understanding of what differentiates a believer from a non believer. Please edit your post and leave such heavy judgments for Allah.

Sister, I specifically mentioned not to reply if you are not up to it. There is nothing arrogant in what I said. If you are left speechless it does not mean that I am arrogant.

I am not judging but simply refuting some points here. Allah is the judge of everything however this is to repel those who blindly throw out hadith without realizing the intensity of doubt they cast within their own belief system. To discredit the hadith such vehemently as done by so many is simply an insult to their belief in Quran and inappropriate by all means. You are lost in the words I said, you did not even come close what I had meant. Howeve let us not debate this.

[_princess_hijabi]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

[QUOTE]
the scholars (of the different madhabs) all agree that hijab is mandatory....but there are slight differences in opinion on how to go about doing it
[/QUOTE]

yeah of course..totally agree

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

USResident, I am not a sister. Fraudia has already covered all your points, so I don't need to repeat it. No one is blindly throwing out hadith, but you are indeed blindly thowing out declarations that have no place in a discussion.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@Khehkeshan

USResident, I am not a sister. Fraudia has already covered all your points, so I don’t need to repeat it. No one is blindly throwing out hadith, but you are indeed blindly thowing out declarations that have no place in a discussion.

Sister!!!

You are flirting with USresident, when he calls you his sister, you say dont call me sister…wah ji wah. I knew daal mein kuch kala tha with all this tension around

as they say

khoon say likhti hoon, siyahi na samajhna
mein toh aashiq hoon behen na samajhna

P.S. I am just joking dude

[USResident]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@Khehkeshan

USResident, I am not a sister. Fraudia has already covered all your points, so I don't need to repeat it. No one is blindly throwing out hadith, but you are indeed blindly thowing out declarations that have no place in a discussion.

Maafi dein behen ji ....

[USResident]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@Fraudz

US resident point well taken, however quran was memorized in the prophets life and was recorded and compiled very soon afterwards. Additionally Allah himself guaranteed the authenticity and protection fo Quran.

If we go by your statement " think if you believe Quran is the word of God then you should with little doubt believe in ahadith and historical accounts, which have been categorized as Sahih by concensus of all scholars."

muslom and bokhari shoud have also not done any research because it were hadith they were hearing that were passed down..but they did their due diligence thank god and rejected what they thought and felt was wrong. I dont think they got it all right, and they felt the same, thus labelling many hdaeeth as weak..statistically if hadeeth were rejected, and hadeeth were labeleld weak, and kabelled strng, there is possibility that some good ones got tossed, some weak ones are wrong or may be saheeh, and some saheeh are maybe weak or maybe incorrect.

hadeeth were done much later, so memoris fading, things creeping in, aftr all these were all humans, and who knows what came in where attributed to whom. After all bokhari and Muslim both tossed out many hadeeth right. who am I to doubt the people who these were attributed to, but as it got passed down..things could have happened, things could have also been made up. Just because these people were a few generations after the prophet and sahaba does not mean they did not have any human weaknesses.

No slippery slope here and no issue with me falling into fitnah and shirk. Quran is at a very different level than hadeeth..and while I am not going to go contrary to hadeeth in general, there is no harm in trying to find out more about hadeeth..everyone should.

anyways. I think that is a much broader topic and would be well served in a seperate thread, thic current topic on hijab is pretty much exhausted what ppl could contribute here.

Your points are also well taken. I guess what I tried to say before was that people who throw out hadith so easily need to realize how far reaching consequences their irresponsibe actions might have. I don't think I intended to direct it specifically towards you though I used my reply to your post to elaborate.

Now to follow up to your point, none of the scholars of the past have categorized the ahadith that speak in regards to hijab as daeef or fabricated. Clearly those ahadith are not in violation of the Quranic ayat either. The Arabic words used in the Quran with regard to the verses that have been quoted are not specific to A BODY PART however generally imply all of it with the exception of what is apparent. Now the meaning of APPARENT is what we learn from studying the ahadith that have been quoted in the links I posted earlier. So the question in my humble understanding is not what the whole body means but what part of the body is excluded under the meaning of APPARENT and that I think is answered sufficiently in ahadith.

[NuzululMasih]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

Assalamualaikum

To all of the Muslim women who observe the Divine injunction of Hijab, I praise your devoutness and firmness in faith and I hail your unshakeable strength to obey this difficult commandment, yet it is ordained for you, and is obligatory.

Still, there are those whom the Quran warns about saying that there are some among you who conspire innovations and objections, and wish that you were not so highly inclined in the path of Islam and in the way of pleasing Allah.

Remember that the Holy Prophet (saw) said that modesty is all of virtue. Thus if you Muslim women can preserve this hadith in the brilliant example of your lives, not only by wearing a hijab, but also by conducting yourself with the grandeur and praiseworthy quality of chastity and purity, then indeed you would be a delight unto Allah and would be strong enough to uphold all of the 700 commandments which are set forth for your ultimate prosperity here and Hereafter.

The Prophet of Allah once said that the best provision that lies within the entire realm of earth is a good woman. Therefore, if you inculcate and uphold the sanctity of Islam in your blessed lives you shall surely be placed above every bounty, blessing, and grace that this transitory life has to offer.

I just wanted to support all of my sisters out there, even though I kbow that nothing can hinder their faith, Allah bless you all.

[system]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

I did not come across any fiqh including the shiite ones which say that hijab is something in which head is not covered. All agree that it is what it is. Minimum hijab requirement = whole body covered including the head besides face and hands.

So where lies the confusion?

The Prophet :saw: said la yajtamei ummati ala zalala. My ummah will not come together on a point of zalala or falsehood.

[Ajmal_farooqi]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@laeeqkhan

I did not come across any fiqh including the shiite ones which say that hijab is something in which head is not covered. All agree that it is what it is. Minimum hijab requirement = whole body covered including the head besides face and hands.

So where lies the confusion?

The Prophet :saw: said la yajtamei ummati ala zalala. My ummah will not come together on a point of zalala or falsehood.

Roger that :k: Laeeq bhai.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

How about horny desi guys just controlling themselves, instead of blaming girls for their inability to control themselves.

Which honestly, its okay if you are turned on when you see someone of the opposite sex. Its natural and unhealthy to repress sexual feelings, but just stop blaming women for bringing you to run to the bathroom to jack off every once in a while.

[Kaka_MaNNa]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

PCG, *makhi *gandi jaga par hee bethti hai… gandd ho ga to makhi aye ghi zaroor aye ghi INSHALLAH aye ghi laazimun aye ghi.

[Debater]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

@bbbb

...and I dont disagree with you. I do have scholars that I take my interpretations from...but in the end it depends on an individual to come to a conclusion and by asking Allah(swt) to guide us to the right path.

EGGjactly, that is why I don't the trust indians...

I agree that it depends on an individual to come to a conclusion, after scholars explain the procedure of namaz (salaat) for example and if you want to show unity with your Christian colleagues, you pray namaz in a Church *because it is you to come to a conclusion finally, *you yourself are the ultimate authority.

[PhatBalongri]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

PCG no matter what guys do, doesnt change the fact that we are required to cover up properly, prefebly according to sunnah.

[PhatBalongri]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

Why do women cover their hair when praying when they dont think its fard or wajib to do it otherwise? Why even pray since thats not in the Quran either?

[hareem01]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

According to one of the egyption scholar ‘DOG IS HALAAL’(for eating)…

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

Phat, I agree that its best to dress modestly. But I also agree with the scholar's analysis of history as relates to Hijab. Plus, look at the ayah. It says flat out that you need to cover your bosom. Last time I checked the bosom part of your anatomy is not on the back of your head.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar

^ ever bothered checking out the hadith to find what exactly did Allah mean by that ayaah?

the reason why this topic, which is really a nonissue and on which Muslims have agreed for centuries,..is dragging on is because some people on here have tossed the hadeeth out of the window.