Want to go back to Pakistan ?

as your responsibilities increase, you have to be much more cautious and much more detail oriented in what it means to those around you. For a single fresh graduate with family in Pakistan its a completely diff ballgame than the gentleman I knew who went who had a few kids, could not really liove with anyone for more than a few weeks/months, had responsibility for his kids and wife's wellbeing..and needed to find a job so they dont start eating into the savings.

what the worst case for a fresh grad who goes back..unemployed staying at home...looking for jobs..figuring out what to do? it changes if tis fresh grad has to support his family back home as well..ad it further changes as in the exmaple of the gentleman I mentioned.

Some may have the luxury of not having to debate pros and cons of a move and what is the impact of it on their family, many do not.

analysis paralysis is a definte no-no, yet one can not have a long term plan and see how their current actions or choices would impact theirlong term plans.

Human heart is never 100% satisfied, but lets just make sure that there are no real reasons to be unsatisfied.

Its not just a question of numbers, but other issues as well, that one has to consider. Current and future opportuntiies for yourself, spouse and kids, whether it is career, social, educational..whatever.

Having faith and following what is in your heart is not enough. Allah has blessed us with logic, ability to reason and to make decisions. They are there for a reason. use them..planning will nto always get you 100% of the desired results but a mucvh better chance of one achieving desired results than just making a move on a whim.

lol...people living in the West for while aquire attitude/mentality that they should be immune to everything in their country of origin...non sense...

I know people in Pakistan living in jhuggis have internet, fridge, TV, radio, mobile phones and a good equipped kitchen...lol...they must be having good businesses/jobs and still content to live in jhuggis...next time I go to Pak and I will make pix and post on GS... :)

Btw, sometimes I also think to move back to Pakistan as I am shuttling back and forth for the last few years to get myself an idea to re-integerate with the Pak society...not easy sofar...but I am working on it constantly...laterz :)

Why I Am Never Going Back To America

http://www.jihadunspun.net/newsarchive/article_internal.php?article=54380&list=/newsarchive/index.php&offset=25&

Why I Am Never Going Back To America

May 10, 2003
By Zeba Khan, US Citizen

**A Thoughtful Article By A Sister For The Parents In America.

I may be an American citizen, but that’s not my fault. I ask the reader to please forgive me that much and continue with the rest of the article. As a consequence of having been born, raised, and college educated in the States, I have gora-saab Urdu, a severe allergy to mosquito bites and a blue passport, but again, that’s not my fault.

Often at parties, mostly at weddings, people (with sons my age who eat, drink, and dream in red, white and blue) will slyly ask whether or not I have plans of returning. I say no, not at all, not unless pigs fly, hell freezes over, and the Cubs win the World Series, all on the same day. Then they ask me why, and I can never answer them. I’m ashamed to, and the reason why is because the true nature of American society is obscene, and Islamic Taboos are often rites of Passage back in God Bless America. The sins that Americans proudly broadcast are so fahosh (obscene!) that I cannot mention them in mixed company in more than a whisper. But luckily I can type though, and here, dear readers, dear sly aunties, dear people who think I’m insane, is why I’m never going back to the US. **

Re: Why I Am Never Going Back To America

Thanks for posting this article.

Fayax: Here is the ending part of the article that is pretty relevant. However I would suggest reading the whole article if you have about 10 minutes.

Religion in American is approached in a way that’s comical if it wasn’t so idiotic. In accordance with typical non-judgmental morality, one religion is no better than the next, and all religions take a back-seat to freedom. You may not believe that homosexuality is good, but in America you believe that people should be free to practice homosexuality if they like. Never mind that you believe it is wrong, if you say so in public then you are labeled as intolerant, homophobic, a closet-queer, and of course, a bigot. Bigots get fired by their employers for being closed-minded, but gays get free health-insurance from their employers for the same-sex partner they happen to be living with at the moment.

To move back to America would be to subject my future children to a thorough brainwashing, regardless of how well I tried to prevent it. When filth is broadcast on TV, sung about on the radio, advertised on the internet, and taught in school, how can you even remotely hope to fight it? Whatever you teach you children between breakfast and school, school and soccer practice, soccer practice and dinner is untaught a thousand times over once the child leaves home.

True, there are some Muslims who come out of America with basically sound minds and characters, but for every sound mind there are 100 corrupt ones who live with their Christian boy-friends, blame God for homosexuality, use the Masjid as a meat-market for dating and flirting, and join organizations like the Al-Fateha group. Al-Fateha sounds holy enough from where you’re sitting, I’m sure, but it’s actually an organization of homosexual Muslims in the US and Canada.

The American society is a system of thinly veiled chaos, and ever so often the veil is lifted. In New York, currently the world’s most famous city, the Puerto Rican National Day Parade was one such example. In broad daylight, buzzed on alcohol and under the cover of mob-action, two years ago a group of over 50 young men traveled downtown New York assaulting women. Police stood idly by as women were stripped naked, sexually assaulted, sprayed with liquor and raped in the streets on New York. Did darkness hides the mob from the police? No, it was mid-afternoon. Were the men stopped right away? No, they rampaged for over three hours.

This is American society, this is what happens to a people who do not believe in God, whose conduct depends on whether or not anyone will catch them if they do anything wrong. There is no humility or fear of Divine Retribution to keep men acting as men, there is only fear of the police. And when the police invisible or ineffectual, the men become rapists, murderers, barbarians and savages.

A funny comparison exists between Karachi and New York, two major cities. In Karachi, when the electricity goes out, children play chupan-chupai or cricket in the streets. In New York, when the lights go out, women are assaulted, people are robbed, and stores are looted. This is not because the electric gates of the prisons have opened, releasing all of the criminals. No, this is because the electric lights and eyes of the police have gone blind, and in the cover of darkness, the common New Yorker becomes a common criminal.

I’m not nuts you know, I’m just honest. You can’t get me to go back to America, not for money, not for fame, not even under the flimsy pretense of doing Dawah in America. I’m not going to lie to myself and say that living in America is Dawah, because I can’t hide that my tax dollars pay Israeli settlers $10,000 a year, per family member, to occupy Palestine and to kill the Ummah I profess to be a part of. A white-picket fence and a two car garage in the suburbs is not Dawah, its greed. Sending your children to the best schools is not Dawah, its opportunism, its taking advantage of a system built on the backs of third-world countries and dead Muslims.

Thousands of Afghanis have died to put cheaper gas in your sports utility vehicle, thousands of Iraqis died to keep your car running for less money, your heating bills down, and your salary higher. Thousands of Palestinians have been shot with bullets that your tax-dollars bought and thousand more will if you stay and become the ideal immigrant. To be the tax-paying, flag-waving, English speaking Desi who is repulsed by ’backwards’ notions of religion, and sends your children to get a good education at a Catholic school, is to be the perfectly assimilated, perfectly absorbed hypocrite.

How convenient it is for a Muslim to condemn America for its tyranny, but take no action against it at all. It’s like a shepherd that shares a cave with wolves who kill his own sheep, but stays because the cave is warm and the mutton is free. The shepherd stays with the wolves under the pretense of doing Dawah to the wolves.

He hopes that by living with the wolves, the wolves will feel sympathy for the shepherd, they will better understand him, and maybe not kill his sheep anymore. How very convenient, very illogical, and very beneficial for the shepherd! Never mind that it’s wrong, just remember that the cave is warm and the mutton is free, the streets are clean, the skyscrapers are shiny, and your children are being given quality wolf-education and eating quality mutton from your murdered sheep.

Dear aunties, I would recommend that you set your sights on some other Amreekan Palat, I may move a hundred times in my life, but never back to the country whose ruler has reinstated the crusades. Never to the land where a 67 year old Afghani Imam is in camp x-ray for giving Mujahideen dry bread crusts. Never to a land where my own Muslim brothers are collateral damage. I swear by Allah, I will never make that mistake again.

Never.

hi, i am knew..........you guys are seem to be doing well in usa. my story is that i am divorced single with one 11 years boy, is trying hard to survive in this country. i worked on two jobs and save a little bit money..........but whenever i think to move back, its really bother me to leave my son here with his mother..........let say i may.......so how i will be able to send child sports, and second i donot know what is condition for a pakistani born american citizen to live in pakistan..........and i am not skilled , i am making money by cooking in convalescnt.......so i will really appriciate your oppinions...............

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by letshavefun: *
hi, i am knew..........you guys are seem to be doing well in usa. my story is that i am divorced single with one 11 years boy, is trying hard to survive in this country. i worked on two jobs and save a little bit money..........but whenever i think to move back, its really bother me to leave my son here with his mother..........let say i may.......so how i will be able to send child sports, and second i donot know what is condition for a pakistani born american citizen to live in pakistan..........and i am not skilled , i am making money by cooking in convalescnt.......so i will really appriciate your oppinions...............
[/QUOTE]

Well, your situation is a very personal one in nature. Can you be far from your son? From ruppes to dollars the money wont go as far, so you will have to make more in Pakistan to be able to support a son here.
If you go back, the fact that you are an American citizen will not matter much in a negative way. In fact it might help if you want to work in an American establishment (which there are not many) such as a place that has an internal cateria.
Cooking is a good skill ...dont underestimate yourself. If you learn to cook well you can always work in a nice upscale restaurant of which there are many in the major cities in Pakistan.

lets have fun

th eissue that you have is that child services looks at your income level at the time of divorce, and even if you ahve to take a pay cut etc, the state child support system does not care and is thus inherently unfair to guys.

You have to figure out if there is a way to cut the child support based on change in salary etc etc.

Now take advantage of teh trainign avialable and you could go help run some of the major restaurants associated with hotel chains etc. depends on whattype of food you are experienced in, and when you say chef does it mean a trained chef having gone thorugh the apperenticeship?

the issue is of child support payments, otherwise, i dont see a problem.

hey nobody's is talkin' about Business here...what sort of a business is lucrative in pak?

Corporate spy, in jan 2005 the WTO is abolishing quotas on textiles. This is going to be a boon for Pakistan. May be an area you can look into.

Re: Re: Why I Am Never Going Back To America

with all due respect the writer of this letter can't be older than 18 or of she is, she is quite naive. there are red light districts in pakistan, drugs rampantly available, corruption is a way of life, cleanliness, which is half of faith, is a joke. add to that the demeaning treatment of fellow pakistanis, the difficulty getting meaningful employment without connections. Homosexuality exists and has existed for ages in Pakistan. The eunuchs have been around for ages. All I'm saying is that it's pretty immature to simply say "my country is better than yours." America is not perfect and has many of the problems that she mentioned in her letter. That in and of itself is an acceptable argument. But then to say say that you would never live there and to give the impression that other socieities are better is a little disingenuous methinks.

all people want to do what's best of their kids and families and they will do whatever it takes, wherever they have to go; that's not opportunism that's logic. Didn't our prophet (s) move to Madinah so he could practice his faith in freedom and provide the means for a better life for his followers?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fayax: *
Thanks for posting this article.

Fayax: Here is the ending part of the article that is pretty relevant. However I would suggest reading the whole article if you have about 10 minutes.

Religion in American is approached in a way that’s comical if it wasn’t so idiotic. In accordance with typical non-judgmental morality, one religion is no better than the next, and all religions take a back-seat to freedom. You may not believe that homosexuality is good, but in America you believe that people should be free to practice homosexuality if they like. Never mind that you believe it is wrong, if you say so in public then you are labeled as intolerant, homophobic, a closet-queer, and of course, a bigot. Bigots get fired by their employers for being closed-minded, but gays get free health-insurance from their employers for the same-sex partner they happen to be living with at the moment.

To move back to America would be to subject my future children to a thorough brainwashing, regardless of how well I tried to prevent it. When filth is broadcast on TV, sung about on the radio, advertised on the internet, and taught in school, how can you even remotely hope to fight it? Whatever you teach you children between breakfast and school, school and soccer practice, soccer practice and dinner is untaught a thousand times over once the child leaves home.

True, there are some Muslims who come out of America with basically sound minds and characters, but for every sound mind there are 100 corrupt ones who live with their Christian boy-friends, blame God for homosexuality, use the Masjid as a meat-market for dating and flirting, and join organizations like the Al-Fateha group. Al-Fateha sounds holy enough from where you’re sitting, I’m sure, but it’s actually an organization of homosexual Muslims in the US and Canada.

The American society is a system of thinly veiled chaos, and ever so often the veil is lifted. In New York, currently the world’s most famous city, the Puerto Rican National Day Parade was one such example. In broad daylight, buzzed on alcohol and under the cover of mob-action, two years ago a group of over 50 young men traveled downtown New York assaulting women. Police stood idly by as women were stripped naked, sexually assaulted, sprayed with liquor and raped in the streets on New York. Did darkness hides the mob from the police? No, it was mid-afternoon. Were the men stopped right away? No, they rampaged for over three hours.

This is American society, this is what happens to a people who do not believe in God, whose conduct depends on whether or not anyone will catch them if they do anything wrong. There is no humility or fear of Divine Retribution to keep men acting as men, there is only fear of the police. And when the police invisible or ineffectual, the men become rapists, murderers, barbarians and savages.

A funny comparison exists between Karachi and New York, two major cities. In Karachi, when the electricity goes out, children play chupan-chupai or cricket in the streets. In New York, when the lights go out, women are assaulted, people are robbed, and stores are looted. This is not because the electric gates of the prisons have opened, releasing all of the criminals. No, this is because the electric lights and eyes of the police have gone blind, and in the cover of darkness, the common New Yorker becomes a common criminal.

I’m not nuts you know, I’m just honest. You can’t get me to go back to America, not for money, not for fame, not even under the flimsy pretense of doing Dawah in America. I’m not going to lie to myself and say that living in America is Dawah, because I can’t hide that my tax dollars pay Israeli settlers $10,000 a year, per family member, to occupy Palestine and to kill the Ummah I profess to be a part of. A white-picket fence and a two car garage in the suburbs is not Dawah, its greed. Sending your children to the best schools is not Dawah, its opportunism, its taking advantage of a system built on the backs of third-world countries and dead Muslims.

Thousands of Afghanis have died to put cheaper gas in your sports utility vehicle, thousands of Iraqis died to keep your car running for less money, your heating bills down, and your salary higher. Thousands of Palestinians have been shot with bullets that your tax-dollars bought and thousand more will if you stay and become the ideal immigrant. To be the tax-paying, flag-waving, English speaking Desi who is repulsed by ’backwards’ notions of religion, and sends your children to get a good education at a Catholic school, is to be the perfectly assimilated, perfectly absorbed hypocrite.

How convenient it is for a Muslim to condemn America for its tyranny, but take no action against it at all. It’s like a shepherd that shares a cave with wolves who kill his own sheep, but stays because the cave is warm and the mutton is free. The shepherd stays with the wolves under the pretense of doing Dawah to the wolves.

He hopes that by living with the wolves, the wolves will feel sympathy for the shepherd, they will better understand him, and maybe not kill his sheep anymore. How very convenient, very illogical, and very beneficial for the shepherd! Never mind that it’s wrong, just remember that the cave is warm and the mutton is free, the streets are clean, the skyscrapers are shiny, and your children are being given quality wolf-education and eating quality mutton from your murdered sheep.

Dear aunties, I would recommend that you set your sights on some other Amreekan Palat, I may move a hundred times in my life, but never back to the country whose ruler has reinstated the crusades. Never to the land where a 67 year old Afghani Imam is in camp x-ray for giving Mujahideen dry bread crusts. Never to a land where my own Muslim brothers are collateral damage. I swear by Allah, I will never make that mistake again.

Never.
[/QUOTE]

TUMS I appreciate your response, she is comparing the negatives of one place with the positives of another, and not negatives to negatives and positives to positives.

That said, This is a really good thread, and after a lot of back and forth argument on her article, fayax and I decided that it would be better to answer the questions he had initially asked, and to avoid getting into a good place bad place analysis.

so lets stay on that course and not get diverted due to a skewed article. there was another thread posted with this article earlier, I believe in general. We can continue discussing it there? what do you say? :)

y'all are forgetting the law'n order situation back home..

also 3000-5000 for groceries seems extremely low.. especially if you have kids..

schools too cost more.. the better ones at least..

plus who'd want to go live with idiots who're fixated on kicking everyone else out of the 'Islam ka daira"...

I'll go back once the country straightens up.. removing that idiotic 'I vouch i'm a muslim' drivel from the passport application would be a good start..

i wanna go back to my pakistaaaan!! :P

To be honest, those that have been born and raised outside the Pakistan, yet belong to Pakistani families should not bother and return to Pakistan, as they wont fit there. Successful living in Pakistan requires you to grow up in that country and know how things work there. When a child in Pakistan goes out to buy 'soudha', he learns some great tricks, which a child abroad does not learn when he goes to his wal mart or sainsberry.

However, students who go abroad for higher studies but have been brought up in Pakistan, they would be a great asset to the country! They should definitely return and serve in Pakistan.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
However, students who go abroad for higher studies but have been brought up in Pakistan, they would be a great asset to the country! They should definitely return and serve in Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]

I was brought up in Pakistan but left at the tender age of 17 for higher education. I don't think I will be able to fit in there having worked for about 10 years in UK. It's not just about buying sauda in shops- the whole work culture there is completely different and if you have worked in the west, you will struggle there. (Having said all that, I hope I am wrong- but that is my impression)

Well, it goes both ways, I know some who were born and brought up in Pakistan and spent 10-15 years overseas and now are unable to adjust in Pakistan. Similarly I know Pakistanis born and brought up overseas who can easily adjust to Pakistan. It is hard, but deciding to shift to a third world country is a tough decision to make.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Instead of askignone person to go back and start picking up teh trash, how abotu asking 20 ppl back home to stop littering..that would be a more profound change.
[/QUOTE]

HAHAhAHAhahH

That's great!

I am working in a gulf state at present. I have crossed 50. I was working in a government office. In Pakistan I worked for 17 years. I started from most lucrative income tax department. I left my officer job for a clerical one in middle east in search of a house of my own for old age. My old age has reached but there is no sign of house except for a plot in Mehran Housing Scheme which 101% sure is never ever to take up as a housing colony. Usually here retirement is 60 but all of a sudden due to increase of education locally all over middle east the government has started sending Pakistan those over and above 50s. Hundreds have been sent and any time I can too be.

I had always thought of Pakistan. For example while living in Pakistan millions never paid radio licence I regularly paid while sitting abroad and colleagues labeled me here as coward.

As I told I am working in a government department. Nationality applications are dealt and are accepted in my office but I never applied. Anyone who came to me I always advised one’s own country is the best. Pakistan is the best, take your dues on retirement, invest them in National Savings you will get better monthly return in your retired old age. I did the same and never submitted my nationality application.

Now I am worried. When I will be retired I would get about Rs. 15 lacs as my gratuity. National Savings schemes are nothing today and interests are to further reduce. I have only one child and she is just 11 years. I have no home of my own in Pakistan. In this age there is no hope of finding any job in Pakistan when highly educated young are unemployed there. The worst worries for me are old age usual medical needs. I have simple life. In Pakistan I and my wife will not feel any problem daily having “Daal”, no AC, traveling in Bus or by foot but my child would definitely have. But the worst worry, which may be psychological, is that here if I felt a little pain or suffering in15 minutes I am at health centers with free standard medication of every type, nice attention but in Pakistan ALLAH forbids for minor ailment from where I will bring 30 to 40 thousands. Today I regret why had not I applied for Nationality. I would had been getting on retirement about Pakistan Rs. 40,000. I could had gone to Pakistan and every year come here to collect a year’s pension.

On the other hand I also have feelings that my parents have become too old. They need me. Though they have never said me so but their old age eyes await me and my kid. Living Pakistan with family even though with load shedding, mosquitoes around, shop keeping pushing your hands away if you want to select an apple of your choice, has its own taste. Seeing the corruption, every where you go you find rude behavior but positive sign is you can at least in return shout and cool down your frustration which is not possible in Arab countries.

In balance the only worry in Pakistan is that one should had at least a Rs. 20,000/- monthly income to live a simple life with a prayer that ALLAH may not put you in some serious disease.