Wahabi - This stuff is really interesting/controversial - Must Read

[system]

Hey pristine,

That is just your opinion, which does not matter in the big picture while considering Islam. Anyway, Could you tell me in few lines, if so called "wahabis" do something that is not part of Islam?

Sherazz, Mohammad was free of error, and he was just a man. Allah protected him from making any mistakes, that goes for all prophets.

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*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

[system]

Originally posted by Pristine:
***Important - Must Read First
i) This post is not a cut-and-paste. The opinions expressed are my own. Those who don’t like it, can go take a hike!
ii) If you are a staunch supporter of muslim unity, blah blah blah…remember, so am I! Don’t reply back preaching how we muslims must unite and all that. Thats not the point here, OK…!
iii) If you are offended in anyway by this post, don’t whine. Remember, I don’t care, and frankly, you should do the same…

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iv) I don’t like criticism. If you criticize this post, it can turn nasty. Remember I have some mystical powers and you may find some surprise problems creeping up in your system… Therefore, CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED!
v) If you like what I have written, you MUST show your appreciation by posting a reply saying “Masha Allah”, “Subhan Allah”,

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“100% agreed”, “hehehe, I couldn’t stop laughing, this is so true”, yada yada yada… It makes me happy.*

WAHABIS:
So we all know there was a Mr Abdul Wahab who presented his own views on Islam, which were greedily lapped up by a number of muslims fed up with some customs of Turks. I am talking about the period of Khilafat before World War I. So what are the characteristics of these ppl, whom I call “Wahabis”…

1. DENIAL
That is the first identifying mark. They will flatly deny they are Wahabis. They will say, there is no such thing as Wahabi or Wahabi’ism. They will say “I am just a muslim”, or “I just follow Quran and Sunnah”, or “I don’t believe in sects”. Don’t be fooled by any of this. Read on…

2. TOO MUCH KNOWLEDGE
Another distinguishing factor. Usually these folks have a lot of knowledge about Islam. Bigger problem is that they think they have a lot of knowledge about Islam. Did you get the difference? The one who thinks he has lots of knoweldge is usually doomed! To them they are Mr. Know-It-All. They think they are preaching, but, mostly, they are just annoying.

3. INTERFERING
A special characteristic. This is a certain giveaway. These ppl are darn interfering. Trust them to stick their noses in EVERY AFFAIR. I know wahabis who go along with a janaza/burial procession, and at the time of burial will stick their noses in, scolding the bereaved family to do this and not to do this. This interference is blantant in every sphere of life. These ppl are incapable of keeping their noses out of any matter. They just have to give their $0.02 worth, otherwise they suffer from a severe indigestion.

4. INTOLERENCE
Combine #2 and #3 above and you have a sure recipe for intolerance. These ppl have least tolerance for people of other beliefs. Be it Shias, be it Barelvis, be it sufi’ism, be it Ahmadiyya sect, be it Bohris or Ismailis, be it anyone. These ppl judge everyone according to their own narrow microscope and then pass judgements. Their judgement is usually negative. Religious telerance and muslim unity/brotherhood is usually low on their list of priorities.

5. KEYWORDS
Another dead giveaway. Remember these three keywords. The ppl who use these words a lot, you would know who they are. These three words are “bida’ah”, “Kaafir”, and “shirk”. Any action to which they do not believe in, based on their own knowledge, is either a bida’ah or it is shirk, and those who do it are “Kaafir”. They have least tolerance for spiritual matters and tend to think of everything as black and white. What they don’t understand is, to them, obviously wrong.

6. OH, SO LOGICAL!
These ppl are very logical. They tend to prove/disprove everything from the books. Usually authentic books. The sad point is, that their hearts are usually dead. They don’t understand anything spiritual or mystical. They feel there should be nothing spiritual about muslims. Everything we require is in the books. So they tend to flap helplessly when confronted with the mystical aspects of Islam. But then their logical minds kick in. Here is how it works: We don’t know about it - So - Its not in the books - So - Thats not Islam - So - Those who do it are “Kaafirs/Ignorant/etc” - So - This is bida’ah - So - This is wrong - So - They will go to hellfire - Hence WE ARE RIGHT!

So what can we do:
Unfortunately, not much!.. Thats sad, but true. Just chill. All you can do it to stay away from discussing anything religious with them. Don’t fight with them. Although very inappropriate under the circumstances, and very politically incorrect, but there is one very wise saying in Irish which is apt to convey what I am trying to convey… “Never wrestle with a p!g. You both get dirty, and the p!g likes it”

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. Same here. Don’t debate. Stay away. They will mess up your beliefs and you wouldn’t know. They will try and shove down their own microscopic Islam down your throats. If you really want to talk to them, just discuss with them weather, cricket, cars, anyhting…but religion. And you will live a happy life.

This breed of people is growing everyday. This group is created on the base of “fear”. Their scholars will frighten other muslims by saying that what they are doing is wrong and they will be put into hellfire if they don’t follow the Wahabi’ism (in their words, “true Islam”).

To be fair to them, they are good muslims in every other way. They have knoweldge and do tend to live their lives as much with Islamic teachings as they can. Thats all fine. However, if they’d just stop interfering so much…and to completely exasperate the rest of us, they think, they are doing us a big favor by sticking their noses in…

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Lahawla wala quwata illah billah hil-alee ul azeem.
Walaah U Aalim Bil-sawab.
**

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Ahsan brother Pristine. A true picture of Wahabi character. May Allah bless you in sadqa of Mohammed o aale Mohammed (s.a) for unwrapping the wahabi filth. Ahsan!

[system]

Pristine buddy, arguably you are the best. You should be a moderator, I'll vote for you man.

[system]

You guys might wanna check these site out for information which is from Islamic perspective and not from personal and biased perspective. Good Luck.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

http://www.salaf.indiaaccess.com/important_issues_of_islaam/wahabism_exposed.htm

http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/creed/wahhab.htm

http://islamicity.com/qa/action.lasso

Good Luck.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Take it easy.

---

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

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----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[Pristine]

Watcher:

Where were you, buddy, for last so many days? Well, back to the topic. I really don’t care if someone likes my opinion or not. I equally don’t care if someone is a devout fan of Mr Wahab or not. This is a free world, and everyone is free to maintain and express his or her opinions. I expressly pointed these things out in my first post. Just as you, or anyone else, has a right to your opinion and to express it, so do I. Whether the opinion is biased or personalized is neither here not there, and is entirely not the point.

ChonkeeDar, also a devout fan of wahabi’ism (by whatever name called) also posted lots of devotional stuff in this post and another of his own post.

If you were to ask me, what is wrong with wahabi teachings, if anything, I’d refer you to the very referenced reply of Ahmad G in the post “Correct INFO on whabis…”. Go check it out.

To summarize my views, I’d first refer you the last part of my first post. Mr Wahab, IMO was a great scholar etc, and 90% of his teachings were (probably) correct. But the 10% which (IMO) is wrong, is so critical, that he has been severly criticized by almost all the authentic scholars of his time and are criticized even now. These major flaws in his teachings relate primarily to the negation of the concept of ‘Tawassal’, and the extremely narrow interpretation of ‘kufr’ and ‘biddah’. If you go by his definition, almost 95% muslims will be declared ‘kaafir’ and ‘mushrik’. This is either a very sorry state of affairs for the entire muslim ummah, or else there is something fundamentally wrong with Mr Wahab and his teachings.

CoolDude
…and a warm welcome back to you to, sir.. Where were you the last few days…? & thank you for the nice wishes

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[system]

Hey pristine,

Wait up sir, who said I am devoted fan of wahab or what ever? Did I stoped you from expressing your opinion? I think, NOT!

Answer my question again:

Tell me something that so called “wahabis” do that is not part of Islam?

Please don’t lable with me such sectarian names, and don’t jump on to conclusion on which sect I belong.

Take it easy…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

---

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

---

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[Pristine]

Did I call you Wahabi? I don’t think so. But since you so obviously took affront to the post, so anyone would conclude that you have some knowledge and/or understanding of his teachings.

And then you turned back and asked the same question which CoolDude asked a number of times. Your above post, simply illustrates that you did not bother to read my reply to you. I had specifically forwrded you to the referenced reply of Ahmad G in the other post. In addition I had told you about my disagreements with the teachings of Mr Wahab. And still you turned back and asked the same thing again. What should I conclude from that?

Without labeling you a wahabi or anything, and considering you a muslim, just for the sake of information may I point out that (those who are the) followers of Mr Wahab do not under any circumstances call themselves, anything but "muslim’. Infact they this is the first sign, which I posted in my first post.

In this forum, at different times, I have been labled, alternatively, a shia, a wahabi and a barelvi …

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That all these lables are poles apart and completely contradictory to each other. This labeling does not bother me at all. Frankly, you should also try to develop your own beliefs to such an extent that you should not be bothered about what other ppl think about you or what they call you. You should be more concerned about what you believe, and that it should be the right belief. And should know the reasoning for those beliefs. All these are good enough. However if you wish to discuss/debate islamic matters you need to develop an understanding (not an acceptance) of the beliefs of the other people. Till you do that, productive discussions can not go on.

People who debate issues without understanding the other’s opinion, sooner or later, fall down the path of bickering and insults and an unendig cycle of “I am Right and You are Wrong”. You have been through that cycle once, and obviously must have learnt the lesson that there is no point in continuing a debate where the other team has (or appears to have) a closed mind.

I will like to take this opportunity to remind you, myself and all muslims here, that infact, a hadith in Muslim expressely stops momineen from indulging in debates, especially on religious matters. Just state your point of view, and if someone tries to engage you in a discussion between his beliefs and yours just for the sake of debate, excuse yourself.

In addition, where there is a chance that the debate may result in insults being levied on Islamic personalities, then such a debate is expressely prohibited by the unanimous rulings of all muslim scholars.

This is my last reply to you on this topic. I have no wish to engage in protracted discussions on this particular topic with you. I believe I have already responded to your question in my previous post. You are free to believe whatever you choose to believe. I reserve the same rights for me. If I don’t like the behaviour of someone or a group of people, I have every right to express my opinion. You can do the same.

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited November 19, 2000).]

[system]

Originally posted by Pristine:

---

ChonkeeDar, also a devout fan of wahabi’ism (by whatever name called) also posted lots of devotional stuff in this post and another of his own post.

If you were to ask me, what is wrong with wahabi teachings, if anything, I’d refer you to the very referenced reply of Ahmad G in the post “Correct INFO on whabis…”. Go check it out.

To summarize my views, I’d first refer you the last part of my first post. Mr Wahab, IMO was a great scholar etc, and 90% of his teachings were (probably) correct. But the 10% which (IMO) is wrong, is so critical, that he has been severly criticized by almost all the authentic scholars of his time and are criticized even now. These major flaws in his teachings relate primarily to the negation of the concept of ‘Tawassal’, and the extremely narrow interpretation of ‘kufr’ and ‘biddah’. If you go by his definition, almost 95% muslims will be declared ‘kaafir’ and ‘mushrik’. This is either a very sorry state of affairs for the entire muslim ummah, or else there is something fundamentally wrong with Mr Wahab and his teachings.

CoolDude
…and a warm welcome back to you to, sir.. Where were you the last few days…? & thank you for the nice wishes

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

**

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Pristine yar,
Just check “Watcher’s” reply and you will find out he is the same as Chonkee dar. Anyways, I am impressed by your research. Good luck. Keep searching the truth and unwrapping filth. Masha-Allah

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

[system]

Good work Pristine.

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[system]

Pristine sir,

I asked you a question:

Yaar Please don’t write a speech in few lines tell us if wahabis do something which is not Islamic.

Like:

1. …
2. …
   and so on, please. Thanks.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Do included your references.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Take it easy…

---

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

---

----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[Ahmad_G]

Originally posted by Pristine:
**Did I call you Wahabi? I don’t think so. But since you so obviously took affront to the post, so anyone would conclude that you have some knowledge and/or understanding of his teachings.

And then you turned back and asked the same question which CoolDude asked a number of times. Your above post, simply illustrates that you did not bother to read my reply to you. I had specifically forwrded you to the referenced reply of Ahmad G in the other post. In addition I had told you about my disagreements with the teachings of Mr Wahab. And still you turned back and asked the same thing again. What should I conclude from that?

Without labeling you a wahabi or anything, and considering you a muslim, just for the sake of information may I point out that (those who are the) followers of Mr Wahab do not under any circumstances call themselves, anything but "muslim’. Infact they this is the first sign, which I posted in my first post.

In this forum, at different times, I have been labled, alternatively, a shia, a wahabi and a barelvi …

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

That all these lables are poles apart and completely contradictory to each other. This labeling does not bother me at all. Frankly, you should also try to develop your own beliefs to such an extent that you should not be bothered about what other ppl think about you or what they call you. You should be more concerned about what you believe, and that it should be the right belief. And should know the reasoning for those beliefs. All these are good enough. However if you wish to discuss/debate islamic matters you need to develop an understanding (not an acceptance) of the beliefs of the other people. Till you do that, productive discussions can not go on.

People who debate issues without understanding the other’s opinion, sooner or later, fall down the path of bickering and insults and an unendig cycle of “I am Right and You are Wrong”. You have been through that cycle once, and obviously must have learnt the lesson that there is no point in continuing a debate where the other team has (or appears to have) a closed mind.

I will like to take this opportunity to remind you, myself and all muslims here, that infact, a hadith in Muslim expressely stops momineen from indulging in debates, especially on religious matters. Just state your point of view, and if someone tries to engage you in a discussion between his beliefs and yours just for the sake of debate, excuse yourself.

In addition, where there is a chance that the debate may result in insults being levied on Islamic personalities, then such a debate is expressely prohibited by the unanimous rulings of all muslim scholars.

This is my last reply to you on this topic. I have no wish to engage in protracted discussions on this particular topic with you. I believe I have already responded to your question in my previous post. You are free to believe whatever you choose to believe. I reserve the same rights for me. If I don’t like the behaviour of someone or a group of people, I have every right to express my opinion. You can do the same.

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited November 19, 2000).]**

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[system]

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[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 25, 2000).]