After seeing sense and conceding the inevitable on the Iran-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline, the Indian’s are doing the same in regards to talks over the Kashmir dispute.
Welcome to Pakistan, Mr Prime Minister. 
[thumb=E]Jamali%20and%20Vajpayee2327_9096994.JPG[/thumb]
IMO, the Indians had to, there was no alternative left for the Indians, the bold step taken by the Musharraf actually cornered the Indians, and gave them no space to manouever...
i dont think any indian politican can give land away to pakistan
and survive same way pakistani leadership cant survive accepting loc
as border.also pakistan cant sacrifice more for kashmir after
53 years.Indian hold on Kashmir is as firm as ever. Kashmiris have realized that Pakistan cannot go on sustaining jehad and time has come to wind it down
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
i dont think any indian politican can give land away to pakistan
and survive same way pakistani leadership cant survive accepting loc
as border.also pakistan cant sacrifice more for kashmir after
53 years.Indian hold on Kashmir is as firm as ever. Kashmiris have realized that Pakistan cannot go on sustaining jehad and time has come to wind it down
[/QUOTE]
rvikz ji, it's very true that no leader can survive in India and in Pakistan, if the leaders are seen to be too soft on Kashmir, however, we must not forget that what president Musharraf did was not at all in anyway being soft, but he was being a statesman, by giving peace another chance, and that's one reason why the Indian PM must talk peace with president Musharraf. I remember very well that the Indian PM said if Pakistan takes one step, the Indians will take two, unfortunately I'm still waiting for the first step from the Indian side...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
IMO, the Indians had to, there was no alternative left for the Indians, the bold step taken by the Musharraf actually cornered the Indians, and gave them no space to manouever...
[/QUOTE]
Spot on.
As with the period leading upto the Agra Summit, the very bold and skillful diplomatic steps taken by President Musharraf have once again put the Indian's on the backfoot, and left them no choice but to respond favourably. First Prime Minister Jamali annouced a unilateral ceasefire, and then President Musharraf talked about how Pakistan was prepared to show great flexibility in resolving the Kashmir dispute, if India was willing to show equal flexibility on it's side. Both Pakistani announcements were widely noted and welcomed by the international community as never before, and put the onus on India to start making concessions. It has started doing that by saying it will not oppose a gas pipeline from Iran to India via Pakistan, and now it's offer to talk about the Kashmir dispute.
India has needlessly wasted nearly two and half years, after Agra, but hopefully now it has realised the folly of it's previous positions?
What wil happen between Pakistan and India
If Priminister Vajpayee is assassinated during his visit to Pakistan, what will happen between the two countries?
More importantly, what will happen if Priminister Vajpayee's knees give way? Would he be flown back to India, or does Pakistan have appropriate medical facilities to look after him?
Re: What wil happen between Pakistan and India
Don’t worry Gupta ji, your PM’s knees are working just fine, as he has now specially requested a meeting with our Great President.
**Vajpayee asks to meet Pakistan’s Musharraf **](http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=topNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4069501)
Maybe he liked the idea of musharraf removing the missile statues and covering the chaghai statue in isloo.
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
Maybe he liked the idea of musharraf removing the missile statues and covering the chaghai statue in isloo.
[/QUOTE]
You didn't?
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*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
You didn't?
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nah, I miss 'em already.
Atal meets that General once more...
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This was a nice snapshot, but jamali ruined it!
Musharraf Pakistan’s biggest leader: Vajpayee
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
nah, I miss 'em already.
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My sympathies, but I suppose you'll have to live with it.
In any case the oppostion's theory of taking down the Ghauri (or whatever it was) to please Vajpayee doesn't hold any water. Instead of just reading and blindly believing whatever the oppostion says, why don't you go outside and notice the ostentatious Ghauri missile repelica on the Islamabad Highway; the road Vajpayee travelled on? You can't miss it. OTOH, Vajpayee probably doesn't even know something called F-10 exists, let alone a chowk in F-10 with a missle.
ITS ALL A BIG farce nothing is going to come out of it?
the whole thing looks so artifical
as if both are talking because of some unknown force
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
My sympathies, but I suppose you'll have to live with it.
In any case the oppostion's theory of taking down the Ghauri (or whatever it was) to please Vajpayee doesn't hold any water. Instead of just reading and blindly believing whatever the oppostion says, why don't you go outside and notice the ostentatious Ghauri missile repelica on the Islamabad Highway; the road Vajpayee travelled on? You can't miss it. OTOH, Vajpayee probably doesn't even know something called F-10 exists, let alone a chowk in F-10 with a missle.
[/QUOTE]
Of all the time in the world, why were they removed now, when Vajo was supposed to arrive. This missile was not merely removed so that Vajpayee could not see it, there are other Indian dignitaries who roam around the city, and you will be very surprised to find where some of the counsulates are. This was a big PR move to give Vajpayee the message, nothing else.
As for Islamabad Highway, which highway are you talking about. If you are referring to shahrai-faisal, from zero point to faizabad, didnt you notice the chaghai mountain replica covered up? There is no missile statue there (unless you think the chaghai model is a missile). Making up things wont help. And its obvious the present dictatorship has an agenda against AQ Khan.
And no, I didnt read what the opposition says, why all of a sudden why these statues, which were once considered our pride, are being hidden.
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*Originally posted by kabir: *
as if both are talking because of some unknown force
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Unknown? Isnt it obvious?
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
of all the time in the world, why were they removed now, when Vajo was supposed to arrive. this missile was not merely removed so that Vajpayee could not see it, there are other Indian dignitaries who roam around the city, and you will be very surprised to find where some of the counsulates are.
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Mere speculation. You must also have a theory about the changing of CDA Chairman a month before Mr. Vajpayee was to arrive, and the erection fo the globe in one of Islamabad chowks. Do share.
But just to keep your mind busy: You first link the taking down of this glorious model to the arrival of Vajpayee. When I tell you that Vajpayee isn't even going to F-10, you bring in additional cast and allege it is for the Indian consulates to see. So if the model was taken down because of these consulates, then why was it not taken down earlier? Why, if the model is linked to consulates, was it tied to Vajpayee's visit?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
This was a big PR move to give Vajpayee the message, nothing else. The only place from where the statue wasnt taken off is KRL colony, thats it.
[/QUOTE]
Right. And they took down a repelica in F-10, miles outside Vajpayee's humanly limited vision and didn't bother to take one down from right under his nose. Is that all part of this PR move that you reffered to?
Secondly, you talk of some "the message" in your post. What message is that?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
As for Islamabad Highway, which highway are you talking about.
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Faizabad flyover to Airport chowk.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
And no, I didnt read what the opposition says, unlike you people have the brains to comprehend why all of a sudden why these statues, which were once considered our pride, are being taken off.
[/QUOTE]
The missile model is your pride? For god's sake it was a missile model. Something that destroyes homes and kills humans, not discriminating against elderly, children and women. And you're proud of that? If you are, then not only are out of line with the modern society but also our religion, which doesn't support such mass killings.
Sure times have changed and strategic necassities force us to have these defence systems but I fail to see what makes it such point of pride.
If you still want to make that missile part of your pride, go ahead. Thats your personal choice. But I would rather see something better in place of that missile. As a citizen of Islamabad, the new globe erected near Constitution aveneue is a much better object to be proud of than the destructive missile.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
Mere speculation. You must also have a theory about the changing of CDA Chairman a month before Mr. Vajpayee was to arrive, and the erection fo the globe in one of Islamabad chowks. Do share.
[/quote]
So you think the model was taken down to beautify Islamabad for Vajpayee to see?
[quote]
But just to keep your mind busy: You first link the taking down of this glorious model to the arrival of Vajpayee. When I tell you that Vajpayee isn't even going to F-10, you bring in additional cast and allege it is for the Indian consulates to see. So if the model was taken down because of these consulates, then why was it not taken down earlier? Why, if the model is linked to consulates, was it tied to Vajpayee's visit? Secondly, I must ask you: What kind of a message do you
[/quote]
Only you would be so shallow to think that Vajpayee will be the only Indian arriving in Islamabad. You need to learn something about diplomatic missions son.
[quote]
Right. And they took down a repelica in F-10, miles outside Vajpayee's humanly limited vision and didn't bother to take one down from right under his nose. Is that all part of this PR move that you reffered to?
Faizabad flyover to Airport chowk.
[/quote]
LOL, did you know that is next to KRL colony, Rawalpindi. And in case you didnt know, Vajapayee was never driven from that route.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
So you think the model was taken down to beautify Islamabad for Vajpayee to see?
[/QUOTE]
No. I don't think Vajpayee had anything to do with the taking down of the missile model. You'll notice my line of reasoning has remained the same through out this thread. I did not refer to Musharraf anywhere, you did. I couldn't care less who oredered the taking down of this model. For all we know, it might be the new CDA Chairman.
Moreover, if you do believe that somehow Musharraf was behind the taking down of this model to send some message, then a) you must first prove his involvement, b) tell us what the message was.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Only you would be so shallow to think that Vajpayee will be the only Indian arriving in Islamabad.
[/QUOTE]
What non sense. I never said he's coming alone to Islamabad. Plus why are you again going off on a tangent and throwing the whole conspiracy theory on the shoulders of the diplomats surrounding Vajpayee? Lets count: First it was Vajpayee, then it was the Indian consulates in Islamabad, and now its the diplomats accompanying Vajpayee. Who's next? Basheer, doodh walla?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
LOL, did you know that is next to KRL colony, Rawalpindi.
[/QUOTE]
I don't care where this KRL Colony is. Doesn't concern me or this thread. Just drive from Airport Chowk to the Faizabad flyover. Keeping glancing towards your left. You can't miss the missile. Simple. Its even more obvious when the road is empty, as in case of vajpayee.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
And in case you didnt know, Vajapayee was never driven from that route.
[/QUOTE]
He wasn't? I didn't know that. What route did he take to Islamabad then?