US envoy warns of Taleban return - Back? They never went!

** The US aid co-ordinator for Afghanistan has warned that unless donors step up aid efforts, the Taleban will be back. **

*Chota - So after months if not years of bombing militia strongholds, killing and maiming countless thousands of innocent civilians and sending Afghanistan into a deeper spiral of tribulation than ever witnessed before the Taleban are still there and indeed on the rise again.

The latest is that not enough money is being spent on lining their pockets presumably so that they give up the fight and go back to growing heroin, the Iraqi generals seemed to be more compliant when it came to pay offs.

Thought for the day: ‘Run monkey king run, like a mischevious ape Bush up-turns apple carts across the world then runs and hides parading a plastic turkey or two on his way home’. *

I agree brother

Indeed the reason why muslims in the Islamic lands work with America is based upon feeding their bellies and not because they love the western culture.

The muslim lands have been blessed by Allah swt with abundence resources, but unfortunatly our leaders are lakeys of the west who need to be replaced with a leader who rules according to Islam and hence takes care of the needs of his citizens.

So now even the American's are saying the Taliban is coming back? Are they admitting defeat, and ready to make a "peace with honour" with them?

afghanis situation since soviet war has been less of a out of the frying pan into teh fire but more like a out of teh frying pan into the fire out of the fire into the deep fry out of that into the oven out of that inot the broiler etc

They had a relative period of calm after the British stopped the punitive wars there in the 30's and 40's up until the soviets invaded, but pretty much since Askander they've been royally fkd over.

Thap

I am not really familiar with the hostory of that country aside from some major events starting at soviet invasion times.

could you give a quick timeline of major events and their impact etc.

I would also like to get a better idea of how much of this messed up state has been the doing of the people and their leaders themselves, and how much due to outside powers at different stages of the history of afghanistan.

Gracias

Re: Back? They never went!

er wasn’t it supposed to be - off with the burkas and on with the freedom? :konfused: What happened to all that mumbling ‘we will not forsake your country this time’, ‘history will not forget you’, ‘we are here to rebuild, not destroy’, blah blah blah ad nauseum.

Realistically speaking, no limits exist to the infinite stupidity of humanity. We refuse to learn from history and now we are embarked on another grand 21st century colonial campaign a la Iraq.

Here’s an article kind of related to this issue: Time to talk to the Taliban, Jonathan Steele, The Guardian, 7 January 2004

Fraudz,

I don’t know if you’ve ever read any of Peter Hopkirk’s stuff ‘The Great Game’ which discusses the implications of the British paranoia over a Russian invasion of India and how Afghanistan and indeed Pakistan represented the ‘gate’ into India. Great book, although the author does at times, generalise about peoples in the region, I remember one comment, which arises again and again in the narrative, is the inborn deviousness and deception practiced by the South Asians.

I read quite a lot about the region in my youth anything I could get my hands on. Mainly focusing on external factors affecting the region, no doubt the shahs of Afghanistan had a tyrannical side to them as well but this is not ‘hard news’, which doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

If you want a well-documented timeline I suggest you do a search on the web, I’ll only be able to give you a flavour, that’s what I’m best at.

Alexander was the first documented external influence on the region in the 300 BC’s where on his way to defeating the Persian emperor Darius he acquired the region and used it as a staging ground for the invasion of India. Again he saw the potential of the Bolan and Khyber and other untold passes from the mountainous area into the flat plains of India. The geography doesn’t change so why should the importance of a place with respect to military adventurism?

From about 1000 AD onwards Mahmoud of Ghazni does his bit and stretches his empire from Persia towards India, his stronghold was Afghanistan at that time. It all goes pretty well until the Turks invade about a 100 years later. They too establish an empire with the seat in Afghanistan and an eye on India.

Then come the Mongols in the 1200’s, greatest impact by Timur in the region in the 1300’s. Obviously there’s a whole gamut of detailed history that goes on in between but eventually we get the Mughal dynasty and the Sikh wars which rage in what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan and there’s a whole bit of history regarding the Koh I Noor moving from a one-eyed Sikh ruler to Shah Suja of Afghanistan then kidnapping of family members and it being returned etc.

Then came the unsuccessful French with one of the Napoleons and then the British (with the Portuguese having a minor bit of influence in between).

I think the most important turn of events in the modern era for Afghanistan was gaining independence from the British about 30 years before Indian/Pakistan. They fought 3 wars against the ‘red coats’ and the region was deemed too troublesome to keep in the Empire. One of the Afghan wars is very well detailed by Hopkirk and describes a route of the British at the hands of the Afghan militia; the British and Afghanis carried out untold atrocities on each other for decades.

The second important event occurred in the 50’s where the prime minister of Afghanistan at the time (Afghanistan was always a monarchy from independence until the soviet invasion) did what Pakistan has been doing for years; attempt to play the USSR off the US in search for aid and patronage. This worked well until the early 70’s when internal power struggles led to increasing Soviet intervention until the full on invasion in ’79.

Then came the Americans, with a little period of Pakistani influence shortly preceding this.

Blimey it’s hard all this typing, why don’t you just come to London next month and we can chat about it all.

Before the Taliban came to power and when they first conquered Kabul, Washington had links with them.

Well that is a fact that no one can deny. Maybe the US is now working a reverse regime change, and subtly working on bringing the Taliban back to power. The tried and tested Vietnam-model is being appplied it seems?

Hope Fraudia took notes!

Re: Re: Back? They never went!

If Iraq war was not over so quick and Oil supply had not been up smooth perhaps Afghanistan would have seen better (more US troops and aid).

Thap

I will be in Germany next month, will try to swing by London for a day to see what my bro has done to my room.

otherwise, i iwll just call u, calls to Uk are cheap. not to egypt :)

Re: Re: Re: Back? They never went!

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Changez_like: *
**If Iraq war was not over so quick and Oil supply had not been up smooth perhaps Afghanistan would have seen better (more US troops and aid).
[/QUOTE]
*

Perhaps.

But i think in that case, if the post-Iraq war period had gone smoothly, they'd be setting their sights on a newer target - maybe Syria or Iran.

^ or maybe Canada? mad-cow's are an imminent threat, you bovine bombers have to be stopped

Last month, to keep the loya jirga (grand assembly) at which the constitution was adopted on course, US-led coalition forces launched their heaviest offensive yet in south-eastern Afghanistan

Chota - Still fighting ghosts?

**President Hamid Karzai insists the attacks, by “terrorists”, are not threatening the stability of his government or the new system. **

Chota - Not that he’d know, being holed up in a toilet somewhere in the American Embassy

**Recent months have seen the re-emergence of the hardline Islamic Taleban movement as a fighting force in Afghanistan. **

Chota - Really and I thought this war was all won?

**Parts of eastern and southern Afghanistan have been rendered more and more insecure due to the increasingly daring Taleban attacks. **

Chota - Western and northern too I wager?

Last March the Taleban said it was aiming to regain power in Afghanistan.

Chota - Seem to be keeping to schedule?

[quote]
Last March the Taleban said it was aiming to regain power in Afghanistan.

Chota - Seem to be keeping to schedule?
[/quote]

Maybe the American's are beginning the process of rehabilitating the Taliban a la Gadaffi? Soon the American's will be singing the praises of the Taliban, and their fantastic work against the poppy crop and establishing law and order in Afghanistan? You never know?

A distinct possibility I'd put nothing past this morally corrupt american regime.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chota: *
A distinct possibility I'd put nothing past this morally corrupt american regime.
[/QUOTE]

Well just look at how American congressmen are now embracing Gadaffi today, whom they once called one of the greatest terrorists in the world. The same with the Taliban, whom they helped to build up, and started doing business with in the 1990's - anything is possible in the world of American real politik.

Leaders of oil-rich countries often flip between the 'greatest terrorist of all' and 'highly influential and commited leader' titles, depending on whether they're playing ball.