United States of Punjab ?

Re: United States of Punjab ?

That is how Sharifs function and years past haven't given them any maturity. Of course, it makes sense electorally to only focus on Punjab which is why I always have wanted a Jeffersonian system in Pakistan. Parliamentary democracy in our dhonsoo country just doesn't fit at all.

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What exactly is the Bab-e-Peshawar... Isnt it another flyover? What is the benefit?

Say what you will about Sharif and his brother, but efficient mass transit is not a luxury, its a necessity. You cant have a city without efficient transport. Peshawar, if its worthy of being called a city, needs a proper transport system that caters to the working middle class. They wouldnt be wasting money if the built a transport network, it would be the back bone on which the city builds.

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I dont think transport will be forced to go through lahore if eastern rout is being followed. M2 and M3 can be used to bypass lahore for traffic coming from Islamabad. Also the textile industries of faisalabd are dispersed across the lahore faisalabd highway. The nearest textiles mill to lahore from faisalabd textile group is around 40 km from lahore on lahore - faisalabad highway. Alot of textile mills have administrative units in lahore as well.
Nestlé, millat tractors, atlas honda and different steel mills are around 25 km from lahore on faisalabad road.

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Panchi Pai... I am with you.

Sachy, AP and PTI will never admit progress of Punjab.

They all use hate against Punjab.... and shine in politics....

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Whatever benefit a flyer over brings to Lahore and Karachi. KPK was getting a lot of flak for not doing any PMLN style 'major' and 'tangible' infrastructure project, so here it is. Other than, I'm not a local so can't really comment on that issue.

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Say what you will about Sharif and his brother, but efficient mass transit is not a luxury, its a necessity. You cant have a city without efficient transport. Peshawar, if its worthy of being called a city, needs a proper transport system that caters to the working middle class. They wouldnt be wasting money if the built a transport network, it would be the back bone on which the city builds.
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KPK is a poor province, it can't possibly think of spending 50 billion on a bus service for just a city! The government of KPK was thinking of launching its own significantly cheaper mass transit system but Federal government cleverly pitched Pakistan Railways against the provisional government in guise of reserving the route for the second Peshawar- Karachi rail track. So this project probably won't ever see the daylight.

But luckily Peshawar has managed to curb majority of its traffic woes by improving the existing road network by bit of fixing here and there and introducing professional traffic wardens.

If it was that easy to get mass transit system approved from the centre then Karachi would have got a mass transit system many moons ago. No other city in Pakistan deserves a mass transit system more than Karachi.

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lol .... To an extent I agree because PPP is nothing but nincompoop so they never focused on development projects rather than re-naming city, airport, park, etc. In 2008-2013 I could not find a mega-development project, all I could find is mega-corruption projects. However, PMLN uses all its Fed-controlled resources to allocate Punjab projects. Musharraf had to use his power to approve mega project for Karachi which resulted in building of bridges/under-passes. I am not able to find mega-development project (Metro is not a "project") for improvement of transportation, highway, roads, hospitals, education in KPK.... so I have to wait till they complete their tenure to give them PTI score, for now their focus has been on "reforms... lets wait and watch for the fruits.

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Either you need to visit KPK yourself or keep really up to date with following KPK government. I'm sorry but a massive road improvement work in Nathia Gali won't attract media's attention nor anti encroachment drive in Mardan to improve the existing road network. But that doesn't mean no work is taking place.

Yes, if a poor province tries improve the transportation by just mending the existing road network here and there, instead of spending billions on building new highways, our materialistic and superficial awaam won't consider it an improvement.

KPK is inaugurating massive flyover this month in Peshawar, so finally a major development lollipop for the critics.

Re: United States of Punjab ?

Captain, would you consider below work an improvement? Yes happening in remote areas where TV cameras simply don’t go.

Re: United States of Punjab ?

When you don’t have budgets to build brand new roads - just widen and stablise the existing roads! Would cleanliness and greenery be considered a positive change in polluted third world country?

Some images from Peshawar:

Re: United States of Punjab ?

I am not sure about Sind (the CM over there is a lost cause) but a little while ago it was reported that KPK Government had not even used a quarter of the Development fund allotted to them which signifies weak governance, especially considering the funds were released to them. At that time, KPK's CM expressed disappointment and promised to turn things around although lately I have been seeing him in the media using the Punjab card excuse. Also, the center had also proposed to fund the Metro project for Peshawar (again not coming out of the province's development budget) but they refused it (probably for political reasons as that would give the center an opportunity for political point scoring).

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I would use the money for a tram type project. Metro buses haven't been good for Lahore's infrastructure.

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believe it or not its just the development of takht-e-lahore. these leaders can't even see beyond lahore and a couple more cities where their kins reside.
its bringing bad name to the whole of punjab, while only select few are getting away with all the riches and loot.
you can look at bureaucracy..politicians with important seats, it all revolves around a particular community.

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What SS is doing is no different than what he has done when PPP was controling the federation. Now, you may say that its establishment that controls the resource allocation. Its another story that they work only those type of projects that can be used to get more political milage.

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“maintenance” work is not considered “mega development project”.

“poor province”? KPK needs to get development funds from Federal if it does not have sufficient funds, that is what “Fed” is for. Present a development project to Fed and Fed is then going to fund the project, Fed itself is not going to design/develop and then fund the project for KPK to build it.

One flyover probably may not cut it for picture-lovers. However, besides transportation, what has been done in health/education development? New hospitals, universities (est by KPK, not private).

:k: This is what people need, make more areas accessible, increase lanes where possible, increase road safety on mountain-roads with lighting, railings etc.

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My understanding is that the economic benefits of an efficient mass transit network would outweigh the cost of the project overall.

First of all, Peshawar is a major city, and its economic development would mean benefit for the entire province. Cities are the engines of growth in any economy..

Now im sure there are middle class wage earners in Peshawar who would stand to gain by being able to get to work and back in a way thats safe, stress free, and affordable. So those are three major benefits right there. First its safe for the elderly, women and children trying to get to school or where-ever their going. People who would otherwise have weave through traffic on motorcycles, can now get to where they need to be without endangering their life or health.
It cuts pollution so its healthier for that reason as well, less smog.

As somone who hass seen the traffic in Pakistan, its a pain for EVERYONE... As a pedestrian you constantly have to watch out for cars and motorcycles because many places dont have footpaths. As a driver you have to be aware of EVERYTHING, on motorcycle like wise... It is genuinely the least enjoyable part of Pakistan. Getting from point A to B is stressful even on short trips, imagine doing it everyday. The vans they have are cramped, your constantly getting someone elbow in the ribs, women have been harassed on these transports... The noise pollution alone is enough to drive you insane.

As far as improving road networks. I agree that roads should be upgraded and maintained. But its an established fact around the world that building more roads is only a temporary solution. As NY'ers discovered during the time of Robert Moses, more roads mean more places for traffic jams.
KP may be a poor province, but its certainly not richer for lack of public transport. Public transport is a major investment, but an essential one. In the long run it would help the city and the province as a whole. i would put transport as essential as education and healthcare.

Politics aside, the benefits of the metro bus is far outweighs the potential cost over its life time. Imagine all those people who save money by using Public transport, can now use that money to buy other essential goods and services. They save TIME, which can be used more effectively. And the long term benefit in terms of improved health due to reduced stress and pollution is I think a beg benefit as well. PML N wins this one... It just seems the KP govt is letting its ego get in the way. They dont want to give any credit to the PML N, especially since IK has denounced the whole metro thing as a waste.

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They did not because with a strict anti corruption watchdog meant that MPs and MNA's could not easily withdraw development funds without having feasibility reports approved. Such over cautious steps significantly reduced the chances of MNA's abusing development funds for unnecessary and extremely expensive projects or even worst, ghost projects. Plus, couple of big development projects did not get Federal approval, for example the mass transit system.

In a corrupt country like ours, I rather have honest under utilisation of funds, than ever so quick and criminal evaporation of money. As you are probably aware that on paper, Sindh government spends all its development budget on province. They get noting left

But to PTI's credit, they now have an LG system where 30% of development funds will be given to local bodies. Of course many MNA's will struggle to share power and prestige with local representatives, but these are inevitable teething problems.

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I have been seeing him in the media using the Punjab card excuse. Also, the center had also proposed to fund the Metro project for Peshawar (again not coming out of the province's development budget) but they refused it (probably for political reasons as that would give the center an opportunity for political point scoring).
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Not true, Metro bus is going ahead in KPK as far as I know. It will be functional after 2018, so no chance of either party benefiting it for political purposes. But it is true that KPK wanted its own mass transit system which was significantly lot cheaper and it would have been completed by by last years. But then PNLN had a brainwave and thought why should KPK miss out on the 50 billion red metro candy bus. So KPK's own mass transit system proposal files are probably in the bin as we talk.

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I don't think anyone needs any education on the importance on the mass transit system (Metro gets flak for white collar corruption its entangled with). The logistics are not over simplified as you are making them out to be, But anyway, I'm simply talking on the facts that KPK government wanted its own significantly more cost effective mass transit system which would have been completed last year, but Federal Government and rejected the proposal, and asked those guys to wait for the Metro which will come to province after 2018. So who's at fault here?

We are not talking about New York here, but KPK where broken and illegally encroached roads were blocking traffic and making people's lives a living hell, PTI government by tackling such basic problem with cost effective good governance had significantly managed to reduce province's traffic woes.

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More roads dont mean less traffic… This has been understood to be a fact for decades now. Robert Moses did the same in NY, but ultimately it didnt improve traffic. According to this study, you need to not only have an efficient road network but also a transit network in order to maximize your capacity… But more roads and lanes certainly wont improve traffic (study points out that Public transit may not fix the problem of traffic either, but that doesnt diminish its importance as it allows more people the option of not taking their vehicle).

A study: Building roads to cure congestion is an exercise in futility | PERC – The Property and Environment Research Center

This study points out that bigger roads only create MORE traffic…
What’s Up With That: Building Bigger Roads Actually Makes Traffic Worse | WIRED

Again, the article points out that public transit doesn’t necessarily decrease congestion, but it does add capacity to the system and more efficiency. Building more highways and flyovers on the other hand, only creates new avenues for traffic jams.

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Well this is an internet forum, not a PhD dissertation... So yeah, I realize its simplistic. The way you people argue, forgive me for thinking that perhaps some of you do need a basic education on such things. Perhaps if you outlined your actual objections to the Metro Bus in a clear concise manner it would be easier to discern what the actual issue is. more often then not, you people just seem to be trying to score points.

I do recall the KP govt wanting a monorail or something to that effect. Again, from what i understand, BRTs with dedicated lanes are recognized around the world to be the most cost effective means of public transport... Its one of the things that makes them attractive.

Like i said, im not against maintenance and upkeep. Nor am I against building roads where there is a genuine need. All im saying is, that according to studies, be it NY or Djibouti, certain traffic dynamics are constant, human nature is more or less constant, and what they have found is that building more roads, highways etc does not resolve problems with traffic.

Public transport may not be a solution to traffic, but it does give people more options. I think, simplistic as it may sound, the benefits i mentioned would improve the life of the average person in Peshawar as it would in Lahore or Pindi. I dont know what the dynamics are beween the province and the feds, but lets give credit where its due... The Metro in Lahore is of immense benefit. Perhaps it could have saved money in some ways, I dont know as im not an engineer, but its serves its purpose and does it fairly well. In the long run, it should pay for itself, even if its built in poor KPK...

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As an aside, along with upkeep and clearance of hindrances, KP should also consider making proper footpaths and bike lanes... If they arent going to build a complete transport network, at least make it easier for people to walk around.