Right when i was gonna reply to u’r post… u popped the darn bubble. Oh well
… the famous words of Jim Carey in the movie Liar, Liar ( about real beauty being on the inside ) " …that’s just an excuse ugly people made up.."
sorry i just had to throw that one in for laughs
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/eek.gif
“dont pin it on me”
Particle Board,
I noticed the discomfort ppl had in directly commenting on that question ...
We all know pretty well what the word Ugly means , and that ppl who are challanged that way are at disadvantage ,through no fault of their own. None of us seemed comfortable to tackle that question....
I tried to modify the question by changing the words that addressed the same core issue.....
What would you say to some one who has a major physical handicap , who feels he has been wronged ....
What wisdom can you offer him/ her as consolation....
[This message has been edited by Nova (edited February 15, 2000).]
Nova yar, the reason I did not comment directly on the original question is that...I am such a handosme guy.....6'-2', saaf gora rung, body solid like a rock that will put any Rambo shamboo in shame, killer eyes and dil chura leine wali smile....baat kiya hai log humein raastoN mein khaRhe ho kar dekhte hain.....
Now you wanna ask about Uglyness and how it feels, ask someone else dude...... ;)
CM
..... hey dude, did'nt mean to upset you in the least. i truly believe that real beauty lies within a person. that was just a joke, conseder the source. Who would ever take "rubber-faced" Jim seriously (humor me on this one OK bud!)
However regarding your point about people with a physical handicap, consider these "words of wisdom" i read somewhere that makes me look at life differently.
"Our bodies are mere shells in which houses the essence of who we really are. Before we were even conceived, our spirits (souls) had the ultimate choice. Some chose to house in bodies seemingly sculpted by the gods themselves, perfect and flawless in every way. others chose less admirable, or desirable abodes,(dark, short, obese etc...) yet few chose to spend their lives in far complex and challenging situations. (physically & mentally challanged people)."
So you see we are who we are, because of that spiritual choice, and ultimately the glorification of our creator.
Anyway there's something far more important to being human, than mere looks, our intelligence and personality should have presidence,. for these are aspects of our lives that we DO have control over.(to an extent)
"dont pin it on me"
Dear Nova!
You can’t force people to love you. The only
thing you can do is, be someone who can be
loved. How you look does not matter. Its
how you treat other people which is important.
As I can see, the problem is not how you look,
the problem is how you think you look and how you
treat other people.
Turn off the defensive mod and sink the guard. Try to
be friendly and let people come closer.
How can anybody like somebody who don’t like
himself? Its like marketing, you have to “sell”
yourself to others and for that you must show
the best sides of Nova.
Even if someone is “ugly” (I don’t think anybody is
Ugly, people are just different). It does not give them
right to be aggressive and be rude to others.
I know you are sick of this but change your attitude
and, yes its you who must change the attitude not others.
Remember it’s you who is suffering not them.
Give “them” and yourself a chance, be nice and tolerant.
Imran :)
[This message has been edited by Imran A Bukhari (edited February 16, 2000).]
Nova..yar why are you trying to take hamdardi by saying you are ugly looking,why are you calling yourself ugly,,is ka matlab ya hai that you are making fun of the creator.yar no body is ugly....ask your mom she will say my son is handsome good looking,that is what count..kia samja bhai sahib..
dil..dilse..dil to akhir dil hai na
First of all !!! FaNtaAboLOouS (new word invented just recently, copy all rights reserved!ahem) PoSt EVeR! KungRats to you :)Here goes my 2 cents worth…
“Gosh, I am so odious.” Right there, we’re already reflecting how one perceives his own self
in the mirror of “his/her own” mind. What rights do we foolish mortals have to say such a thing
with so much confidence. Who are we to justify that? The way I sense it, it gives off a sabotaging statement against a magnificent part of creation. Its an underestimate against an aspect, which may posses great
power, or other characteristics that will distinguish a person unique than other part of the origins.
Fine! No objections there, while one accepts his/her downfalls, but why should they let it take control over to such an extent, that its actually degrading the spirit within? (Lets learn from Roman here... Just teasing, no offense *Stone of the batch* er..I mean rare, salams there. Whats up?) Shouldn’t one rather find the means or alternatives to find rooms for improvement, rather than sitting *plopPped* up, and shedding tears over it?
Tears may never, never, never alter or help one, when it comes to solving a complexity here.
Personally, I’d say, Nothing is more uglier, than a lower self esteem, if so. However, I disagree
strongly with those, who look up to someone to pick them up, and in return not make any attempts what so ever themselves to rectify their situations ahem no offence to anyone esp’ My dear Miss Dunday wali (uh oh, I’m in for trouble now boy oh boy * I better run like the wind* tehee…No, no I’m not picking on you dear friend, honest to goodness, btw..where in the world are you anyway?).
I just hate it, when we individuals give up to the surrounding world and let it win, helping it celebrate its glorious victory of misconceptions (well yeah, been there, and I’m not implying its easy to do so). Aren’t we letting the terminator get away with its booty that way? Why do some of us sway so easily by the currents of this world, are we perhaps that weak, that it doesn’t really matters when other choose to walk all over us, we let them do so with pleasure. Why for God’s sake? Why?
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/mad.gif
Don’t we have the same equal rights over the privileges of this world? I’ll relate a personal experience here. I chose to wear “the head gear” at a very young age. The whole world was against my decision and saying, “oh boy, u’re going to be the ugliest looking thing among other girls.” Did I care? No, I didn’t care what absurd remarks my classmates passed, or my teacher made, or how my so called fashionable friends decided to ditch me, just because of it. And it was not even here, but in Pakistan. I don’t remember anyone supporting me at all (isn’t this ironic? ok, I’m not asking for sympathy here jeez!). I choose to wear it cuz I wanted to for myself. I liked the philosophy behind it and it made sense to me. I never wore it to get compliments, or receive approval of the existing human race around me. I didn’t care what ever some one thought of me as. I held up to it all, and I stuck to it. Today, I’ve found people who’ll look past appearance but see the beauty within (ok, wait, its actually more like “I don’t care anymore how ppl see me… now, situation.”). Still I face obstacles, but once a person succeeds in battling the inner voice of their own conscious, regarding any aspect personally, I find it easier to follow up a path I’d chose to walk upon, how about we try to do that for ourselves, for a change.
Once an individual tames the internal devil i.e. the one who’s always trying to toil its utmost to bring us flat down on our faces, its not that hard to deal with rest of the world, if one’s motive is pure, Allah Subhan wata’ala does sanctify us with the required strength, which helps us succeed with grace alhumdulilah. He SWT never lets us down, ever! But alas, for our iman or determination gives way and we so easily give in to the *waswasay* that the shaitan (or we “ourselves” I guess) intensify our hearts with. The second, we bend down to what others perceive us as, is the moment when choose to embrace loss. How does that helps, by the way? Can anyone answer me please... I’d love to know.
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
Nothing on our planet is created without a purpose. Every individual, every microscopic piece of this universe play their roles in a very special way. Every single atom contributes to life here. Everything has an certain distinctive place. Its all a matter of one’s own personal belief and faith in his/her own self.
What is beauty? What makes an aspect hideous? I think there isn’t any absolute answer to these questions. It relies on the person himself what he considers should fall under the “exquisite category.” For example, What if I say, I never have found the ‘butterfly’ a symbol of beauty. It makes me so angry! I find it an alluring disturbing insect, sucking all the nectar from the flowers, distracting all with its colorful rainbow like wings, taking advantage, flapping about here and there like a drunk object from one flower to another, kind of flirting all over the place and not being faithful to any one of them (how so very rude indeed! just kidding, keep those shoes on ur feet, they look better there. Thanks! *smiles* Whoops, I sound like a molvie here, ohwell... poor butterflies are considered *bbb-a-a-a-ddd* by moi the great! So there...! See, See..See..I just justified an innocent lil insect here. *got the point here,* right?).
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/rolleyes.gif
On other hand, I admire or rather find it really thrilling to see an ant put its full effort in collecting food, bearing a burden ten times its weight, carrying on its work through out the summer, finding means of shelter and all that cute stuff. I see tremendous amounts of beauty there. So therefore, I’d say there really aren’t any certain definitions of beauty or things that are considered loathsome (However I do agree with BoSS’s opinions on describing the uglier state of things, in his reply to your other post..btw.. HEY There BOSS, hOwDY do, LooOOoong time no see huh!) 
If “Beauty” can be charmed by a “Beast,” and its tamed into a handsome Prince, or the Hunch pack of Noter Dame can stir compassion in our hearts, or knock on the doors of some heartless audience of the city, then I wonder why a healthy, wise, intellectual, educated human being among any of us, should ever discover him/her self in a despairing state of unlimited grief? Am I amplifying too much? Tell me...for God’s sake its not the end of the world, or is it...please tell me...i.e. if so, then why so...
Till then,
Adios amigos!
DB
[This message has been edited by Daysee Behna (edited February 18, 2000).]
NOva
i never really thought abt this...but u r right...ugliness isnt different from any other physical disability....
the world can only sympathize....
actually how many ppl who have replied are willing to marry an ugly or a physically challenged person?
how easily we talk abt self esteem...
how can an imperfect person have self esteem in this perfect world...
dear daysee behna,
can't you keep your posts short and sweet?
:):):):):):)
please don't misunderstand; but it's too boring to read looooooong posts.
Why always people say, “beauty is only skin deep”, haan? I am tired of all this nonsense about beauty only being skin deep. That’s deep enough. What do you want – an adorable pancreas?
I think, beauty is often worse then wine; intoxicating both the holder and beholder.
The only obsession I care, when a girl ceases to blush, she has lost the most powerful charm of her beauty. And that’s irreplaceable. ok ok I am going off the track..
Nova jee, trust not too much to an enchanting face. Beauty is just a deceitful bait with a deadly hook.
Remember that the most beautiful things in the world are most useless; peacocks and lilies, for instance. ;)
but a man should hear a little music, read a little poetry, and see a fine picture every day of his life,
in order that worldly cares may not obliterate the sense of the beautiful which God has implanted in the human soul.
dear, nothing is beautiful from every point of view.
O Jazbatee Behna - the Modest one! you are incredibly, inordinately, devastatingly, immortally, calamitously, hearteningly, adorably beautiful, but please thora likha kero, main perhtay perhtay thak jata hoon.
unattractively yours,
r@@jdulara
Elegancia, and RaajD... Aslkm! :)
hehehe...
WHAT A POETIC LOT ON BOARD!!
NOVA DEAR, JUST TAKE A TABLET OF PROZAC AND U'LL FEEL BETTER. IT MUST'VE BEEN U'R WORSER DAYS/NIGHTS. PART & PARCEL OF LIFE.
TRUST ME, NOTHING BEATS DEPRESSION LIKE PROZAC. I KNOW A LEETLE OF THE MATTERS OF THE BRAIN & MIND.
Nova, you were born ugly and you are going
to die ugly. All these people who are trying
to placate you with nonsence, do so, out of
selfishness: to make themselves feel better.
Most of them have seen your type of ugliness
and walked straight on, without even aknow-
ledging your presence...looking straight thru
you. They do that all day, and at night come
in here and patronize you, me and all of us,
by their 'gems' of wisdom and understanding.
Lets face it. Ugly people are going nowhere.
If you grew up ugly, you didn't have the time
to develop a likeable personality, because
you were hurting too much, from the looks and
barbs, your fellow man/woman threw out at
you, without any provocation from you.
How could you even develop a good heart, when
that heart has been blackened by the 'teer's
of others ?. Only those, who have never walked
a day in your shoes, can have the gall, the
temerity to come in here and tell you to
develop a nice personality and that it is
YOUR FAULT, for not liking the people, who
hate you.
I see blacks and other foreigners around the
town I live in(USA). The whites quickly change
seats, as soon as a Black person sits close
to them. They will stop eating, or hurry to
finish their meals, to get out of there. They
cannot stand the presence of ugliness, as
they percieve it. In theatres, in resturants
the uglies are as much segregated, as the
blacks were suring slavery. Without knowing
anything about them, people shun them, just
on they way...that...God...created....them.
Same thing with fat people, retards, handi-
capped, etc. We don't want to see U_GL_Y.
We don't want to sit next to misery. We hate
the site of sufferring. It brings us down.
We don't want to feel, the same thoughts that
you, ugly people, or you handicapped, or you
fat-assed people. . .have!. We want nothing
to do with you.
If you had a secret poll, about you uglies,
you fat-asses, and retards, about putting you
all in a hole and throwing in a atom bomb...
none of you would be around anymore. You'd
all dissappear. No one, not one of the decent
DECENT members of this forum, would admit to
signing your death warrent. No, they are too
good for that. They only see, the inner you.
They judge hearts, not faces. Minds, not
great bodies.
Bull****, is what it all is. You know it and
I know it. They say it, because they were
raised to, appear to be, kind-hearted.
Here's my advice to you, you ugly SOB. You are
going to get a ugly wife, if you don't have
a million bucks to BUY a bimbo for yourself.
Study hard, work hard, get lots of $$$$$$$$,
for thats your ONLY salvation. Buy love, buy
house, buy all of these selfish bas****s'
company, if that is what you desire. For a
free lunch, they can stand next to an ugly
mutha' like you and talk nice.
You wife, will never love you. She will think
of a sexy guy giving her pleasure, when you
are on top of her. Better get used to that.
Girls are for sale. They will sell themselves
to the highest bidder anyway, as the FOX show
proved last week. Buy them lock-stock and
barrel. Use them, abuse them and leave them.
That is exactly what they would do unto you,
if you had no money and only your ugly mug
for them.
You can break yourself in two, trying to be
nice to the world. They will laugh at you,
as they use and throw you away, like a used
tampon. Use them, before they use you, you
ugly ba****d.
Thakur
I joined Gup Shup about 3 years ago.
Many times I have seen answers which can
classified as strange, different or…….
Mr. Thakurs answer above is, sorry to say,
the most ridiculous I have seen for very long
time. I bet you hate black people, fat people
handicaps and ……… And no sir. It’s the
inasaan behind the look who counts not
how he or she looks. I don’t have more
time to waste on people like u I am sure
you are going to get a very good “treatment”
from other friends 
very soon.
Imran
Imran,
Whatever Thakur might have said may or may not be his/her true feelings. What we should be looking at is that fact that his/her post has the potential to be true.
Thakur......
Thank you......
Many interesting thoughts come to mind....
1- We only become aware of our weaknesses , when it directly interferes with getting some of our needs met...I wonder if my need to be appreciated is so big that it magnifies the ugliness for me......I wonder if unconditional acceptance at any stage of my life , would have greatly diminished this need....
2- I dont know how much I should identify myself as an individual, and how much as part of us as species, or us as life ....in latter case, my presence becomes as important as anyone elses....The same process that makes some ppl handsome , others somewhere in the between , creates some that are ugly , but are an essential part of the process....if life is to maintain its plasticity and diversity , it would create both extremes....
3- what is the purpose of life....to Be Happy? Is it important for wishes to be met for that...? Are ppl who are happy only those who have what they think they need? or are there ppl who dont have much , but neither do they have the need to have that...
More later....
BTW...do you think this is all my rationalization...?
Nova,
The most important thing is what you think of yourself. Positive self image is the most important attribute anyone can have. It is not what others think of you but what you think of yourself can make or break you. I have seen many beautiful people with low self esteem not getting anywhere whereas people with no beauty but with lot of self confident and getting lot of life.
Physical appearance is only one part of the equation, intelligence taking good care of oneself and thinking highly of oneself are more important then appearance.
You seem like a very smart guy don't undersell yourself. Look at the TV personalities (Larry King, Ophara etc.) none of them are great looking but they believe in themselves.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited February 29, 2000).]