Two sons

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: Two sons

I was kind of like your younger son. In high school, I had a 4.0 gpa.

When I went to college, for some reason I started to have a combination of anger, depression, emotional feelings, frustration and confusion etc....I was never motivated and ended up being an average college student with a low 3.0 gpa. I changed my major 2 times and even my major that I chose was useless. However, on the surface, to everyone I was a cheerful happy perspn.

It was only in my senior year in college and after I went on a one month trip that something clicked inside me and made me see things in the right perspective and get motivated about life. I was able to transition into a successful career in IT by self studying the certificates exams and working my way up the ladder.

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Re: Two sons

If I knew I would not start this thread. I have asked him may times during cordial straight talk in calm and cool tone.
I know answers to many questions in life but this is a mystery for me.

I have told him I support whatever he wants to do with his life. He likes to rap and he is very good at it so I told him if he wants to be rapper he is free to work on this skill. But seems like that is not his calling either.

I have got some good advise here and lot of hope from some guppies and guppans sharing their own experiences. I pray to Allah that he finds his destiny eventually.

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Re: Two sons

I am not sure if this will help or not but I always did better in school when my parents were an active part of my education.

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Re: Two sons

Re 1st sentence yes I realized that. But was trying to frame it in a way that will assist you in digging deeper to find the answer. Looks like you have done that.

All the best to your children.

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Re: Two sons

The same is the case with my son. He is in middle school and even though the whole house is studying, his sibling, his dad, me and even his cousin who stays with us on weekends, he doesn't want to work hard at all. I give him a lot of attention and am not too busy to talk to him. But he just doesn't want to. He has lofty academic plans but has no interest in working hard to reach his goals.

I keep giving him pep talks but he says if one is gifted on very intelligent one doesn't need to study hard. Since he is not gifted it's no use. I have left his case to Allah. Of course I am still trying but you know what I mean. May Allah help you.

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Re: Two sons

The point I was making was that having a high academic degree does not guarantee a meaningful or gainful career.

There are a lot of hurdles even after achieving this goal of having a degree.

Someone who is not interested in going to Uni or work hard in getting a higher education degree, has other great potential which needs to be looked at.
**
Channelizing the intelligence is important.**

I never tried to marginalize the importance of education and that is broad term by itself. The question I believe was not about high school or college education, I merely gave an example from one extreme.

http://collegedropoutshalloffame.com/

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Re: Two sons

Even Diwana knows

impressive post

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Re: Two sons

i think the reason mirch mentioned his older son does well is not to compare them. but to indicate that there is no problem with the home environment, parents' effort etc. towards the education of the children.

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Re: Two sons

Even? Ah!

:hehe:

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Re: Two sons

I know what you mean and I can relate to that. I am not about education for the sake of a successful career. I just wish that he becomes a productive member of the society not a burden to the society. I would take him as next Bill Gate without lot of education over a homeless master’s degree holder. :slight_smile:

I also belong to the school of thought who do not believe that material success can only be achieved with lot of education.I have many materially successful friends who do not have great degrees from some big name university.

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Re: Two sons

:hinna: I know what you are going through.

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Re: Two sons

My advice is that

college is a totally different experience compared to school.

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Re: Two sons

Help him find some direction. Maybe help him get/find a job that will help him get some direction as well as teach him a skill...maybe in a bank, etc.

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Re: Two sons

It is great that you don't measure success by academic achievement alone and also appreciate your son's other talents etc. That can preempt a negative self-fulfilling prophecy where he keeps comparing himself unfavorably with his academically high-achieving elder brother and think he can never be as good as his bother so doesn't feel motivated to even try. Do continue to appreciate his other talents/skills/positive traits while also encouraging him to give college his best shot. Continue telling him that you have full confidence in his abilities; that you have no doubt that he can do well academically just like he does well in other aspects of life; that he is smart and intelligent; and that he will succeed in college. Avoid invoking pessimistic doomsday scenarios. His mom ideally should be on the same page as you in sending a consistent message that you both are confident that he will succeed. And that success doesn't necessarily mean getting 4.0 GPA with a major in cognitive science; even graduating from college with a major he likes is an achievement. Once he finds what he is passionate about, most likely he himself will set higher goals and start doing better in class, increasing his GPA.

Some other advice on how to try to improve GPA:

--It's alright to take "easy" courses, especially initially. See if there is something like "Easy A" Facebook group or two for your son's college. Also, if available, read reviews on ratemyprofessor.com and see what students have to say about the difficulty level of a course he is considering for the next semester.

--Most likely you are not pushing your son toward a particular major with a specific career in mind. That's great! Community colleges and American universities in general allow a lot of flexibility. Encourage him to avail the opportunities there are and explore different academic disciplines by taking different courses to see what he likes. He will do best if he actually enjoys what he studies.

-- Don't be in a hurry. It won't be the end of the world if he graduates in 6 years rather than the standard 4. Universities allow that. So initially he should take 12 credit hours worth of courses per semester rather than burdening himself with 15 or 18 credit hours. (In community college, I think he can also enroll on a part time basic and take even fewer courses.)

--Help is available for those who seek it. For many science and business related courses, free tutoring may be available at scheduled times. Moreover, outside of class, professors and teaching assistants hold office hours once or twice a week. He can use those office hours to help clarify concepts that are unclear or just ask his professor or TA for suggestions on how to study for the course. Usually they are very happy to help.

Best of luck!

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Re: Two sons

You are still old.:p

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Re: Two sons

Mirch

so some ideas and personal experience in detail below..

It can be a number of things including

How he learns does not work with how he is taught.
Not interested in the subject matter
Has a learned behavior where he sees himself as an underachiever and has a mental block
Is not getting much out of talks from his elder brother or yourself because he feels you dont understand or can't relate (regardless of how well you do it)

He needs small victories..I was like him. The biggest issue was that I saw myself as an underachiever and failure, and it became a vicious cycle, self fulfilling prophecy..I will not try because I felt I was just stupid, and then the results will come further proving it.

I was one of those guys, a straight A sister, who aced everything including finishing in top 10 in her med school graduating class, a younger brother who was a straight A student and then myself. Was an A student early on but then changed school, was bullied, had weak undiagnosed eyesight so could barely read the board, and just fell behind in learning some concepts and just continued to struggle.

I can guarantee if we compare grades with anyone on GS, no one will be able to beat my crappy grades.

in grade 10, I flunked math, had to retake it. had a C average
in Grade 11, flunked math, chemistry, urdu, had to retake all
in grade 12, i flunked math and had to retake it, was a C avg

using activities, awards and all in sports and student leadership I was able to get in a uni, started computer engineering, did exceptionally well in a semester and half ..4.0 in semester 1, and was on track to do that semester 2 when i came to US. competition was tough, adjustment was difficult and i fell behind and back into old patterns, poor grades, self doubt and slowly started to dig out...but was almost ready to call it quits and go home.

Two older pakistani students doing their masters took me under their wing and said ... take the summer session, you have nothing to lose, forget what happened...think of it as day one here...dont worry about what your cumulative GPA is...just give it your best shot and see what happens.

4.0 in summer, deans list every semester after that until I graduated. even my professors in my senior year who were giving me recommendations for internships and MBA were surprised when i told them that my GPA was just above 3.0, since i had aced every class with them..even admission interviews asked me what changed..

fast forward to 2004, I am standing in front of a few ppl whiteboarding my approach to determine market size, potential and our expected revenue for a new service launch and I am running through the approach, when my boss a guy with a PhD and 2 decades more experience, says slow down slow down...go back and walk us through this again....I did wondering if i messed something up. He realized with the confused look on my face and said...you need to go slow...not everyone is a math genius like you..

I started laughing, and told them I had a story to share later...he could not believe when i told him that I had flunked math in grade 10, 11 and 12 and that I was almost booted from my undergrad for a low cumulative GPA.

so why share all this...My dad got me tutors in grade 11 and 12, curtailed activities, did all he could to give me structure, support and resources to succeed, but I had to get over my own mental barrier that I am not good enough, as smart etc before I could start doing better.

Now had I addressed it early on, I may have done better..and that was one big hangup...'whats the use' ..and ..' i have messed this up ..how can I even recover' ..

One of my good friends struggled in college for a bit, dropped out, declared academic bankruptcy, got back and 4.0 through undergrad and masters..he needed a clean slate..and kudos to his family for supporting him to do that after 2 years of college..

maybe some of this will resonate, I have been able to help my SIL's kid as well as my sisters kid both who were under performing and had parents worried. One is about to get in med school, other did phenomenally well and got recruited by a major company before he had even graduated, so he ended up working for them part time while finishing his last semester.

oh...and last thing. which I missed..one key reason for my poor performance in first few semesters in college? not the best company...great guys but simply not into studies as a priority...that changed the same time I took the summer challenge to prove it to myself that i was better than what my grades were showing.

hopefully this helps

37

Re: Two sons

sometimes all you need is a clean slate.

Hurdles and failures are all a part of life. Some face them earlier (and IMO end up doing better later on if they can make it through the obstacles) and others face them even after an ivy league education or completing a masters at 22. It seems to me like you think that those who are successful will always remain that way…and I don’t think that’s the case.

having said that, I think son #2](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2) 's problem might be that he is not interested in what he’s studying…maybe college is not important to him at this point in his life…until he sees the value in it and what it could do for him or what he can do with a degree…he will not put his heart into it.

you just have to wait for things to click..

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Re: Two sons

Having a mentor (who shares his interests) will help him. And it's probably not going to be you at this point in his life...

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Re: Two sons

Instead of focusing on the degree, I think it's also a good thing to focus on his interests and what he wants to do with his life, what he sees himself doing career wise. As a parent I'm sure you know what activities bring him happiness and what he likes to spend his free time doing, maybe encourage him to get serious about those?

I was the elder sibling in my own family who set the bar high, it was a lot of pressure but I also felt bad for my brother and sister at times as well. They both have not studied as much as me or hold a masters - but they are successful and love their careers regardless. I can relate to your story a bit because my brother was the same. He struggled in university, had to spend an extra year and a half to graduate and hated his entire time doing his Bsc. I had done it and went on to doing medicine but my brother was very much into graphic design, the arts, etc. No one in my family understood it and often relatives would tell him to do something sensible which could lead to an actual career but he remained head strong in his interests and now Mashallah he works for a great company as a creative designer in Toronto. I think forget about the degrees and focus on what he likes and where his interests lie. He might just view his elder brother as competition and someone who he cannot live up to - my brother admitted that my parents - although not on purpose - but they did make him feel this way. I think every child is different as I'm sure you know but some are also more sensitive than others and pick up on parents cues and extra attention to a particular child and their achievements. I would just sit him down and talk to him - or strike up a conversation with him casually and get to know what he really is passionate about and take it from there.

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Re: Two sons

Love it and appreciate you, sharing your story. I am not hopeless and always encourage him to give it his best and not to worry about the results or grades. Looks like he is still trying to figure out his calling. I hope he finds some good mentor, obviously I am not that for him.

:rotfl: You are dragging me down.