what do you think why will he not be pissed at the Arabs, THEY BETRAYED HIM...
He and the Arab leaders both betrayed Islam and the Muslim Ummah. He hated Islam and everything to do with Islam.
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*Originally posted by SSultan: *
what do you think why will he not be pissed at the Arabs, THEY BETRAYED HIM...
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this accusation is laugable... the turkish NATIONALIST movement he was a part of....do you not understand what NATIONALIST movement means...
and how did the arabs betray the turks??? by moving the seat of the empire and pouring money into Istanbol?? is that what you call betrayal?
You know some historeans would not even call the Islamic Empire an Empire because Empire expands for sake of colonising, and diverts all monies to its central capital... However Islam expanded to lift the people from darkness and allow easy and natural way into the light of islam and hence the seat of the Islamic State always moved from a few different places and never put an obstacle in allowing progress to turks, kurds, mughals and arabs...
The Arabs betrayed the muslims
The Turks betrayed the muslims
The breakup the followed was the result of muslims turning against each other....
And self-serving ‘Muslim Leaders’ following the orders of their western masters without even thinking of the consequences.
Those that are attacking him should also realize what state the Caliphate was in. These figures enjoying power at that time were heavily involved in drinking, adultery etc... They lost the war, and had it not been for visionaries like Atta Turk, Turkey was a goner.
It takes a dynamic leader like Atta Turk to rise up after a disaster, and we saw that in Zulfi Bhutto, who revived Pakistan after the whole nation was mourning and crying after the 71 mess.
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
Those that are attacking him should also realize what state the Caliphate was in. These figures enjoying power at that time were heavily involved in drinking, adultery etc... They lost the war, and had it not been for visionaries like Atta Turk, Turkey was a goner.
It takes a dynamic leader like Atta Turk to rise up after a disaster, and we saw that in Zulfi Bhutto, who revived Pakistan after the whole nation was mourning and crying after the 71 mess.
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for your puspose only, i will again repeat, the qualities of the person whom Atta turk the dog replaced ... (seriously give me some evidence against the man whom he replaced, your are repeating the same excuse i refuted earlier)
and i will also repeat my call for using logic
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you need to get some logic in your brain, before you just mumble jumble something out of a brainwashing fourth or fifth year urdu book
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don't treat me like a baby using choothi urdu kitab published by the punjab textbook board ok...don't insult me again by replying without logic, reason or evidence to support a vague claim
please read my refutation before just mumbling the same old filth ok
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but it was the last sultan who single handed reduced and curbed powers of foreignors as well as his own wali's (or their equivalent of nazims) as in one encyclopedia put it, reducing them to mere secretaries.
his own qadi (head of shura) refused to agree to a fatwa issued by a nationalist turk movement directly on payroll of the british home office, (and this has been documented) ...however the Young Turks movement selected four people including a JEW (yes them zionists)..
As they entered his office, they found him standing calmly, Aref Hikmat read the Fatwa to him, then As'ad Tobatani came forward and said "The nation has removed you from your office.", Abdul Hameed became angry and said "The nation has removed me from my office, that is okay ... but why did you bring the Jew to the Quarters of the Khilafa?" and he pointed to Qrasow (the jew). Obviously that was the point of payback, Abdul Hameed rejected selling Palestine to the Jews, and now they show him that they were a part of his removal.
How is it when all this is documented and read again and again, do people still continue to brainwash their own children
into loving the traitor who sold Palestine and took the seat of khilafah which Prophet of Allah (swt) said "is a shade of Allah on earth" and of whom "the hud (punishment) is better then forty nights of rain" (i.e. rain on barren land) .. how can we like and admire the person who removed the single leadership and the system of leadership whom we are supposed to obey "as long as salah and zakah are established"
On the day of turkish "independance" if you will excuse me, but I will mourn this great hero till my death, and I wish if a single soul is erected the like of such a person...
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*Originally posted by umar001: *
for your puspose only, i will again repeat, the qualities of the person whom Atta turk the dog replaced ... (seriously give me some evidence against the man whom he replaced, your are repeating the same excuse i refuted earlier)
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My analysis is not based on calling people dogs or anything... I was talking about the dynamics involved in being a great politician and leader, and its apparent Atta Turk knew how to get the job done, unlike the last of the caliphates, who were busy in their lavish and corrupt practices.
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and i will also repeat my call for using logic
don't treat me like a baby using choothi urdu kitab published by the punjab textbook board ok...don't insult me again by replying without logic, reason or evidence to support a vague claim
please read my refutation before just mumbling the same old filth ok
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excuse me? I didnt mean to insult you or anything????
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*Originally posted by Spock: *
My analysis is not based on calling people dogs or anything... I was talking about the dynamics involved in being a great politician and leader, and its apparent Atta Turk knew how to get the job done, unlike the last of the caliphates, who were busy in their lavish and corrupt practices.
excuse me? I didnt mean to insult you or anything????
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sorry to say,, but i have called ataturk a dog,, i should have called him a birtish poodle rather, and i have given my evidence for him
where as you have simply repeated phrases,,, and phrases.. again,, yet, no evidence.. not even a quote? no numbers? no historical events??
I have given you accurate historical events.. what you have given,, apart from blind appraisal?
What is "evidence" in your language brother?? do you feel by saying some phrases often enough, it will become true?? maybe in your mind,,, i don't know how your mind works
As I said, give me proof,,, a shred of proof, i and i will retract from my whole discussion
How Ataturk used Islam and then chased out the sheikh who said its unislamic for women to dance in partial nudity, and threw the Quran at him (which surprisingly is hailed by brainwashed pakistanis as a revolutionary event for islam??? some pakistani baffle me)
He was praising Islam and the Prophet all the time.. He was calling the Qur'an "the most Perfect Book." He was saying that the Qur'an was the Constitution.. And he was saying all these in the newly opened National Grand Assembly in Ankara during the Independence War...
So the Muslims trusted him... And he was given full power during the War.. After Turkey was liberated, he was elected as the President of Turkey by the Assembly..
After a while, he started, slowly, his anti-Islamic reforms.. The man who had been saying that "The Qur'an was the Constitution" was now saying "We do not receive our laws from the sky" referring to the Qur'anic revelations... In order to achieve his anti-Islamic reforms, he did not hesitate to use force, terror, gallows, torture, prison, etc...
If you compare the words and actions of M. Kemal during the Independence War to those of M. Kemal after the Indepence War until he died (1923-1938), you will notice that the two M. Kemals are 180 degrees opposite of each other.. How is this possible?..
It doesn't make sense, does it? How can a person change that much overnight?..
But if you go back, further back, and look at M. Kemal's roots, his background, etc., it perfectly makes sense.. Everything makes sense.. And you will realize that the 180-degree-change in his words and actions is very natural, and it would have been unnatural if he hadn't changed 180 degrees..
So now let's first look at M. Kemal's background, the family he came from.. And then we will look at his anti-Islamic reforms.. Then we will be able to explain the motivation behind all his anti-Islamic reforms ...
The Secret Jews, Joachim Prinz, 1973, pp. 111-122
..... In December 1686, more than three hundred families converted to Islam in Salonika. Like Shabtai and other Marranos, they continued to attend Jewish services secretly and observed certain Jewish customs in their homes.
This was the origin of the most important group, numerically and historically, of Islamic Marranos. The faithful Mohemmedans call these hidden Jews 'doenmehs', the renegades. ..... Over the years the 'doenmeh' movement became firmly established in Asia Minor. In the nineteenth century the sect was estimated to have twenty thousand members. Salonika remained its main seat until that city became Greek in 1913. Although the Jewish community remained there under Greek rule, the 'doenmehs' moved to Constantinople.
In Salonika in the early days of the movement the ten commandments "of our Lord King and Messiah Shabtai Zvi" were proclaimed by the 'doenmehs'. They still form the credo of the surviving 'doenmehs' of our time.
I shall meticulously adhere to the customs of the Turks so as not to arose their suspicion. I shall not only observe the Fast of Ramadan but all the other Muslim customs which are observed in public.
I shall not marry into a Muslim family nor maintain any intimate association with them, for they are to us an abomination and particularly their women.
From time to time the Turkish governors of Salonika, who received complaints about the sect from the Mohammedan clergy, tried to investigate the strange existence of the 'doenmehs'. Their clannishness, their refusal to mingle with Mohammedan families, and their marital restrictions had become a well-known fact, difficult to hide from the majority of the people among whom they had lived for many generations. Socially, they seemed impenetrable, although in their Moslem religious practices they were beyond reproach. In fact, they often seemed even more devout followers of the Prophet Mohammed and more sincere worshipers of Allah than the rest of the community. They fasted during Ramadan, and their leaders and adherents were found in large, even conspicuous numbers among the pilgrims to Mecca. It was well known that in the seventeenth century Joseph Zvi, one of the immediate followers of Shabtai Zvi and one of his inner circle, died on the way from his pilgrimage to Mecca, and the day of his death is still commemorated.
The revolt of the Young Turks in 1908 against the authoritarian regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid began among the intellectuals of Salonika. It was from there that the demand for a constitutional regime originated. Among the leaders of the revolution which resulted in a more modern government in Turkey were Djavid Bey and Mustafa Kemal. Both were ardent 'doenmehs'. Djavid Bey became minister of finance; Mustafa Kemal became the leader of the new regime and he adopted the name of Ataturk. His opponents tried to use his 'doenmeh' background to unseat him, but without success. Too many of the Young Turks in the newly formed revolutionary Cabinet prayed to Allah, but had as their real prophet Shabtai Zvi, the Messiah of Smyrna.
TIME, July 2, 1928, p. 17
Awful Desecration
Enough to set hairs a-standing on pious Mohammedans heads would be a proposal to cover the broad, flat floors of mosques with hateful, heathen pews.
Pews would prevent squatting in the traditional attitude of prayer. Pews would obstruct reverent foreheads from bending down to touch the floor of the House of Allah. Pews would be an awful desecration -as awful as though heathen Christians should not don slippers before entering a mosque, and thus pollute the floor.
However, since the present ruling class of Young Turks are not pious Mohammedans, it was natural, last week, that the Commission on Religious Reform, recently appointed by President Mustafa Kemal Pasha should recommend:
1) Pews to cover the floor of every mosque;
2) abolition of the mosque slipper and prayer rug;
3) installation of organs, choirs.
Observers of the Young Turks' successful occidentalization of Turkey marveled, once more, at the docility of the Turkish masses, which have abandoned the fez, ceased to contract polygamous marriages, and now seem prepared to alter the fundamental rites of their religion - all this within ten years.
TIME, February 20, 1933, p. 18
Word for God
A hard father to his people, Mustafa Kemal told his Turks last December that they must forget God in the Arabic language (Allah), learn Him in Turkish (Tanri). Admitting the delicacy of renaming a 1300-year-old god, Kemal gave the muezzins a time allowance to learn the Koran in Turkish. Last week in pious Brusa, the "green city," a muezzin halloed "Tanri Uludur" from one of the minarets whence Brusans had heard "Allah Akbar" since the 14th Century. Raging at Kemal Pasha's god, they mobbed the muezzin, mobbed the police who came to save him.
Quick to defend his new word for God, quicker to show new Turkey the fate of the old-fashioned, Kemal the Ghazi, "the Victorious One," pounced on Brusa, had 60 of the faithful arrested, ousted the Mufti (ecclesiastical judge) of the Ouglubjami mosque and decreed that henceforth God was Tanri.
Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal, An Intimate Study of a Dictator, H.C. Armstrong, 1934
He was drinking heavily. The drink stimulated him, gave him energy, but increased his irritability. Both in private and public he was sarcastic, brutal and abrupt. He flared up at the least criticism. He cut short all attempts to reason with him. He flew into a passion at the least opposition. He would neither confide in nor co-operate with anyone. When one politician gave him some harmless advice, he roughly told him to get out. When a venerable member of the Cabinet suggested that it was unseemly for Turkish ladies to dance in public, he threw a Koran at him and chased him out of his office with a stick.
p. 241:
"God's revelation!" There was no God. That was one of the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down.
Religion! He would tear religion from Turkey as one might tear the throttling ivy away to save a young tree.
p. 243
Further, it was public knowledge that he was irreligious, broke all the rules of decency, and scoffed at sacred things.** He had chased the Sheik-ul-Islam, the High Priest of Islam, out of his office and thrown the Koran after him. He had forced the women in Angora to unveil. He had encouraged them to dance body close to body with accursed foreign men and Christians.** (this is your great Ataturk ... the dog)