Turkeye and Islam

Galatasary, well, that was pretty much my impression as well. I know that common Greeks and Turks have little (or none) animosity towards each other, and yes, it is the politics of the region that makes it appear to be. In my opinion, they are like Indians and Pakistanis, separated at birth (although, Greeks and Turks go a long long way back – the ancient wars of Thermopoli – was it Turks or Persians?? I forgot.). You are right, I also can’t tell the difference between the two people. They are Mediterranean to the core. I admire both people equally.

As you said, we have to look at the bigger picture, and not just smaller details (e.g., Kurdish issue, or Greek-Turkish relations). All in all, Turkey comes on top.

Once my wife’s aunt who lives in Thessaloniki almost killed me when I thanked her for “Turkish” coffee. You just can’t do that in Greece. It is Greek Coffee!

One thing about Greeks that bugs the hell out of me is that they blame CIA for everything. I don’t get the same impression from Turks.

Just in case if you misunderstood what I said earlier, I am a major league fan of the Ottoman Empire. I find it to be the most intriguing period in the recent history of our time. I like to read about Ottoman whenever I can get my hands on some good material. It is a period of time which is not understood in either the East or the West.

So ur married to a greek eh?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:
**Assalaam u 'Alaikum

Thanks man ! I didn’t read the whole thing, but I’ll Insha Allah save it, and when need be, I may use it to counter the “Armenian genocide thing”. Kaafirs are just so obsessed with the Armenian episode, that they overlook everthing else, and use it as the focal point of discussing the relations of the Muslims to their non-Muslim subjects in the past.

Assalaam u 'Alaikum

Assalaam u 'Alaikum brother;

Well bro, I must admit that I do not know about religios field coz I began not too much ago being practising Islam and I am only a student about learning Islam inasllah I will be a good true muslim like you and other muslim bro. May be I am still a culturally attached muslim by only defination

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I only try to convey what I observe bro, the concepts are not seen black and white in turkey there are too many untidy colours between these two colours in Turkey. For exp there are hundreds appearence of sufists and islamic groups. The fan is so large that some of them says having a clean hearth is enough to enter jannah the other side of the fan says tring to rules of Allah dominant is necessary fro a muslim to become real muslim. May be this is resourced since lack of knowledge true islam. I admire pakistanis since you really interest with your identity and Islam so surely pakistanis are more religious than turks. But this is about education system and statepolicy coz in here they try hardly in lessons,in media to get turks unbeliver but still turks resist to protect their identity and religion.

As to sufism; bro may be they overwhelmingly represent a sufism that is harmed and differed from it’s real foundation. But I only convey what I observe. There are two mainstream islamic approachment in turkey one of them call them selves sufis and they say they live according to the rules of shariah and tasawwuf; they say they came earth for not struggling but to help each other and to admire the creation of Allah so that to respect Allah and Allah’s creatures. They see the creatures (including all human, animals and environment) as creation and miracle of Allah so they respect to to them also. Some of these jamaahs read a lot books among themselves which is about Allah and Allah’s superiority and islam.They usually try to prove the existence of Allah by science and prove the truth of quran and islamic reality. They do not interest policy and they also (this is only my opinion) does not like to opponent government.(actually they are in harmony with everything)

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For exp NOOR JAMMAH is the biggest one, they have hundreds of schools who are superior at science researches in almost all countries. They have universities, tv and radio stations, magazines… www.fethullahgulen.org this site belongs a head of one sect nor jammah for exp and other group www.harunyahya.org (they are not in noor jammah) also there are some sufis who do ziqr in tekkes like qadiris and nakshibandi. For ex sheikh Nazým of cyprus. There are hundres groups like them. But beeing sufi does not mean being against Allah’s willing(sharia) do not forget that the chechen mujahids mostly belong qadýri jammah and this gives them a conscious and iman to be against russia. ý MEAN SURELY ý DO NOT THÝNK SO THEY OBEY the difficult rules of sufism you mentioned. But they call themselves with this name. Actually those were the sufi dervishes who tokk islam to anatolia in 1000ss before turkish troops came here. because of these dervishes many greeks, armanians and natives became muslim by voluntaly. Their interpretations of Islam charity, love, tolerance, virtue and so on and this appaled natives a lot this is why sufism has great respect in Turkey. but some of sufi leader like jalaladdin rumi is beeing interpretated different by islamic scholars. In Istanbul in every corner of street there is tomb of sufi baba or pirand thousands go there to pray.

I totally aggree with your sentences about they are culturally attached to islam and many know nothing about islam. If you ask a turkish girl with mini shirt, are you muslim she will say Alhamdulillah I am proud beeing muslim but can not know only a command of Islam. Because the iman and identity of these pll were tries to be forgetten for several years. she will say that ý respect islam much coz there needs no mediator between Allah and human. What I am doing does not matter anyone it is between Allah and me. Yes, this is a standart type of turkish muslim. Ia m sure pakis are different. ctually all ppl is confused. Everyday there seems a official islamic scholar he say hijab is not necessary in islam and many ppl believe them.Alot of ppl drinks alchol but noone eats pork. almost everyone fast in Ramdan but the ones who is praying namaz are not much crowded.(the mosques are full in only friday prayers),ý MEAN PLL LÝVE FAR FROM ÝSLAMÝC RESOURCES. and also there are some muslim groups especially in ýnivercities who interst with policy (you may surprise but there are many students who reads Maulana maudidi and debate his opinions among themselves). They kknow ali shariati, sayyid kuttup, roger graudy, and there are too many different approachment to islam I mean.

How much are they immersed to islam?? well, a religious turk try to be honest, unliar, charitable and trys to gain Allah’s love. But others unfortunately are the ones who can not be convinced especially in trade life.their only vriteria is benefit and to become more rich and exploit other turks

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can I portray well?

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I mean there is no turk as I observed honest because of virtue or liken value. a turk can only be restricted with fear of Allah.

But no one can deny here that islam has the greatest influence in turkish art,architectural,culture,language and in many things.

Bro ý really do not know whether uighur turks use arabic strict or not, as I know uighurs could succedd to protect their identity tough they were exposed to persecutes.
About the genoside , there happened surely some unhappy events to both side . but I want to say that there was ITTIHAT TERAKKI party in 1915 in Turkey derived from YOUNG TURKS MOVEMENT who advocate secular nationalism and thses ppl were too far away to represent real ottoman policy. NAhmanadi mentioned about Anwar Pasha I think he is the biggest responsible of killing millions turks because he was defence ministery of ottoman(he was a panturkist also the head of ITTIHAT TERAKKI) and though it was necessart to have approval of ottoman parliament and sultan he agree with germany secretly and got ottoman ally to germany in ww1. Because of him ottoman entered a war which it dissappeared at the end. Because of a man a huge empire was collapsed.

Bro there is a real lively islamic life in turkey. But surely can not be rich like pakistan. Assasalamunalaikum…

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**Salam gala bro,
I like to point out that noone dislikes turkey for thwy are not Arab. As for islamic no country either sorrounding turkey or i the whole islalmic world are islamic..

Salam reza, I do not hear from you for along time. I meaned bro there are BAAS parties which are nationalist and have not good relations with turkey.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Faraz Mir:
**Galatasaray, my respect to your country. Unlike mine, your country has not be run over by Wahabis yet. I hope you guys can keep it that way.

What exactly are you doing in Lahore?
Hi Farz Mir same respect to pakistan. Thanx. Well, wahabis are not liked here as I observed since they let the arabians revolt against ottoman and helped british against turks.Also there is a high sufi culture here and as I know wahhabis are opponent to sufi rituels and ahli vel jamaah sects since huge muslims are hanafi here. I heard firstly that wahhabism is dominant in Pakistan. sorry I am ignorant about this subject. But on the other hand I met some ppl who began resoecting wahhabism. They said the mujahids in bosnia and checenia are wahhabis( I really do not know they are right or not. HATTAP a mujahid in checenia is seen like a che guevera in turkey. I really wonder he has relation with wahhabism or not.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**So ur married to a greek eh?

well , reza italian, greek, espanol girls are very preferable about marring; I mean mediternean girls are special indeed

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There are different definitions of being called a wahabi, fro example i dont aet food from niyaz, langar, Imam Jafar Sadeq's food so people say u r wahabbi, i dont light candles on grave, ur wahabi, if u say u want Sharia then u r wahabbi, there are different definitions of Wahabbi. Our whole family and many i know are termed Wahabis. so depends what u wanna call.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**Galatasary, well, that was pretty much my impression as well. I know that common Greeks and Turks have little (or none) animosity towards each other, and yes, it is the politics of the region that makes it appear to be. In my opinion, they are like Indians and Pakistanis, separated at birth (although, Greeks and Turks go a long long way back – the ancient wars of Thermopoli – was it Turks or Persians?? I forgot.). You are right, I also can’t tell the difference between the two people. They are Mediterranean to the core. I admire both people equally.

As you said, we have to look at the bigger picture, and not just smaller details (e.g., Kurdish issue, or Greek-Turkish relations). All in all, Turkey comes on top.

Once my wife’s aunt who lives in Thessaloniki almost killed me when I thanked her for “Turkish” coffee. You just can’t do that in Greece. It is Greek Coffee!

One thing about Greeks that bugs the hell out of me is that they blame CIA for everything. I don’t get the same impression from Turks.

Just in case if you misunderstood what I said earlier, I am a major league fan of the Ottoman Empire. I find it to be the most intriguing period in the recent history of our time. I like to read about Ottoman whenever I can get my hands on some good material. It is a period of time which is not understood in either the East or the West.

At the moment the most popular music is greek music in turkey.In coast cities in streets you can only hear greek music at the moment.(I love greek music too much too) On the contrary many greeks love Tarkan and sing his kiss music in memory. But it is really comic that yhey sometimes beocomes like child

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for exp they can not share some values, both says “no it belongs to us not turks or greeks”, for exp puppet play, mousaka, nasraddin hodja and many things. Also there would happen a war a few years ago because of only a 50-100 square meter island called KARDAK (actually it was only a rocky place not a island) but you had to see the scene: there were many ships around that island, many war planes and helicopters flown on that island F-16’s pursued each other. One night a group of greek villagers land the island and put a flag the other day a group of turks landed on the island put turkish flag) There happened crowded protests in both side, hundreds of flags were burned in these protests because of only a small rocky place

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ý mean the two nation is copy of each other and show same reaction in the same events. ý did not drink greek coffee

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but I will order turkish coffee to you whenever you come ankara…

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by reza khan:
**There are different definitions of being called a wahabi, fro example i dont aet food from niyaz, langar, Imam Jafar Sadeq's food so people say u r wahabbi, i dont light candles on grave, ur wahabi, if u say u want Sharia then u r wahabbi, there are different definitions of Wahabbi. Our whole family and many i know are termed Wahabis. so depends what u wanna call.

SALAM Reza bro, why can not I see you in chat room, it is pleasant for me to learn from you Mr. engineer. I will happy if you send some knowledge about wahhabism if you have time. Have good life in UK. Take care bro....

reza brother I also wonder your opinions about YALNIZ DEGILSINIZ, I still could not have your opinion

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Pls say if you watched.

I still hav not been able to watch that movie, but InshaAllah i'll watch after exams, i have exams in less than a months time.

Salaam,

I would kindly urge certain perticipants to stick to the topic. This is not another "Wahhaabi" thread. Thank you.

Sentinel.

Unfortunately, this came too late for Turkey. However, Islam is on the rise now in Turkey because that nation's Islamists have demonstrated that they are different from the ulema of centuries back - the Islamists of Turkey are committed to Islam as a basis for the advancement of Turkey rather than merely maintaining a centuries old lifestyle

A cool comment...

Gala and NYA: I am reading a book about Miniturist painters in the 1700's in Instanbul called "My name is Red". It is a fantastic read and delves deeply into the culture and religious aspects of the ottoman life. I would highly recommend it. I believe the author's name is Orfahan or something.

[quote]
Originally posted by Chaltahai:
*Gala and NYA: I am reading a book about Miniturist painters in the 1700's in Instanbul called "My name is Red". It is a fantastic read and delves deeply into the culture and religious aspects of the ottoman life. I would highly recommend it. I believe the author's name is Orfahan or something. *
[/quote]

Thanx bro but can you give more detail about that book?(so that we can find it) The name of the writer can be ORHAN? And is there a site adress that we can get knowledge about that book and it's writer? you meaned miniature painters?

I have by my bed side table and will post the author's name soon. It is actually fiction and a murder mystery revolving around the struggle between the traditionalist masters of mimiature paintings in Istanbul with their legacy to the Herat school of paintings and how they are being influenced by the realism in painting in the west.

The issue revolves around islam and then interpretation of what Allah commands as the ideal. Making rela life portraits was haraam.

Great narrative and fantastic imagery.

[This message has been edited by Chaltahai (edited April 19, 2002).]