Transparently Corrupt

[system]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

Great posts and research by Flame of Life...Bravo...its an eye-openers to all those who are ardent supporters of Dictator....

[symk]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

And knowing that, shouldn't this also be known by lovers of sham democracy or lovers of mere labels under which everything but whats written on the label goes? When BB, Nawaz will be the most probable winners, by all reasoning, are we just following a blind rush for a change with no plans or objectives in sight...? Arent we creating room for these two and other similar corrupt ppl, from past or even the present govts to stay dancing over our heads...? where's the change?

This is an admission that fair election will kick out musharraf and his PMLQ, if people want change we should respect that, lets support independent judiciary so that they can check on any corruption by the new political government. The fact is that when politicians are corrupt atleast they get jailed or are kicked out in exile but when Generals do corruption they are made heads of semigovernment organizatiions with more perks, they have no accountibility at all

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

If fair elections are held, either BB or NS will be most probable winners. Unless corrupt politicians removed by vote or independent judicial inquiry, the saga of corrupt politicians will continue. This is not a rocket science, should now be understood by future dictators and present lovers of dictators or army rule.

FARID

judiciary being the third most corrupt institution in pakistan is not really a group that would want to change status quo, would it?

[Flame_of_Life]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

judiciary being the third most corrupt institution in pakistan is not really a group that would want to change status quo, would it?

True, but look at the trajectories. Where's the Army headed? The Judiciary? Choose ur ship carefully.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

I do think that due to more media choices,as well as the ability of people to communicate via internet, that any future govt even of BB and nawaz or sort would be in public crosshairs more than in past when media was strongarmed and the ability of people to share info was very limited.

can internet do in Pakistan that caretaker govts, military, political reformists etc have not been able to do.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

True, but look at the trajectories. Where's the Army headed? The Judiciary? Choose ur ship carefully.

I dont know where they are headed. niether do you. plusI dont have to choose a ship, even if I could..and I cant anyways.
I cant vote :)

we are talking a lot about judiciary independence, but not judiciary reform.

reform the judiciary, kick out all judges who have not upheld the contitution..even if they claim they are doign now. ask military to give charge to a caretaker govt, ban all current politicians or any politicians affiliated with corrupt regimes ..now or past.

bring new faces, in politics, in judiciary, and establish and uphold a sysrem to checks and balances.

thats what is needed. not taking sides in two historicaly corrupt institutions i.e. military and judiciary, while a third historically corrupt institution i.e. political parties stand around salivating at the futre prospects.

[Flame_of_Life]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

Exactly. More than internet I think, the TV channels r influencing the people's opinion. Remember, we r still a nation of illterates. I think what we r seeing today is close to what happened in France just before the revolution. A lot of people preaching the ideals of freedom, liberty, democracy to the people...criticizing the govt. over a period of time. None of the philosophers preached revolt..some were actually on govt. payrolls but since the criticism was done over a period of time, the people were ready for it when time came. That is what has happened here.

[Flame_of_Life]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

I dont know where they are headed. niether do you. plusI dont have to choose a ship, even if I could..and I cant anyways. I cant vote :)

we are talking a lot about judiciary independence, but not judiciary reform.

independence of judiciary is not a reform? Sounds like the mother of all reforms to me. Other reforms r needed...and Musharraf had the best chance to do all of what u mentioned in 99, including judicial reforms. But like everyone else says, he failed on all the promises he made. Saying that, the democratic govt's can't be absolved for screwing with the judiciary. Still Musharraf rode in on a wave of popular mandate for reform and while political parties were held responsible for their actions or lack of, why should Musharraf not be held responsible for his?

reform the judiciary, kick out all judges who have not upheld the contitution..even if they claim they are doign now. ask military to give charge to a caretaker govt, ban all current politicians or any politicians affiliated with corrupt regimes ..now or past.

bring new faces, in politics, in judiciary, and establish and uphold a sysrem to checks and balances.

thats what is needed. not taking sides in two historicaly corrupt institutions i.e. military and judiciary, while a third historically corrupt institution i.e. political parties stand around salivating at the futre prospects.

Such radical actions will probably not work. Honestly, if we just had an honest and independent election commission that is properly empowered to check the spendings on the elections by the candidates, a large part of our political miseries will come to an end.

I think the ban on 3rd term for PM was a positive step..but thats a separate topic. :D

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

independence of judiciary is not a reform? Sounds like the mother of all reforms to me. Other reforms r needed...and Musharraf had the best chance to do all of what u mentioned in 99, including judicial reforms. But like everyone else says, he failed on all the promises he made. Saying that, the democratic govt's can't be absolved for screwing with the judiciary. Still Musharraf rode in on a wave of popular mandate for reform and while political parties were held responsible for their actions or lack of, why should Musharraf not be held responsible for his?

Such radical actions will probably not work. Honestly, if we just had an honest and independent election commission that is properly empowered to check the spendings on the elections by the candidates, a large part of our political miseries will come to an end.

I think the ban on 3rd term for PM was a positive step..but thats a separate topic. :D

reform means two things to me

1) independence
2) cleaning up of corruption

there is a lot of talk about independence, fine, but how does being independent end judicial corruption?

and I am not absolving musharraf of anything.

an independent..and clean..election commission would be a very good first step. This would ensure that vote fraud does not happen etc and the people who got the votes get into office.

we need better mechanisms to keep tabs on ppl once they get into office.

[Matrubhoomi]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

Thread Topic is very serious one.

But I do not agree with thread starter's opinion, because Pakistan is NOT the only currupt country in Asia-- irrespective of current political turmoil there.

I find whole of South Asia as a corrupt region more or less at same level.

We have seen many corruption charges on prominent politicians including rajiv Gandhi and Narsimha Rao, but nothing happnend to them due to lack of "credible" evidence or loss of evidence whatever..

Even politicians managed serious crimes like hawala channel for money laundering and are still going strong.

When a Policeman who is hardly getting 200 RS. as his average daily wage for a tough duty--accepts small amounts like 10-50 rupees, whom are we going to blame?? Can we blame government??

Those who talk big about eliminating corruption, when given a chance in beaurocracy indulge in it at the end for some or other benefits.

Let's accept--corruption flows in our blood--and it can't be removed in one generation alone.

[Flame_of_Life]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

An “Exclusive Country Club” coming up on Park Lane Road by CDA. Nothing extraordinary about that until u consider sometime back General Musharraf was “gifted” some ten acres piece of land or so on the same road. Acting in greater national interest, CDA has decided to flout all of its own rules and come up with the grand idea of spending the tax payers’ money on this public service endeavor. I am so flattered. CDA is so tireless in serving the masses.

[Captain1]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

@Flame_of_Life

Mir said that Aziz told newsmen that NAB was probing into the sugar scam and the multibillion-dollar Karachi Stock Exchange crash but the bureau was later directed by the government to take its hand off these cases. Mir vividly remembered the chairman NAB saying that the bureau had some concrete evidence about the involvement of some of the rulers, including federal ministers, in these scams.

A NAB source told this correspondent that every major scandal involving any government player was being capped by the top authorities. The source said that the bureau also conducted a probe into the oil price issue.

“During the course of the probe, we were told by the government that we are interfering in the policy issues whereas we were actually focusing on the gray areas of policy implementations,” another source said, disclosing that the bureau submitted its report to the prime minister in the middle of last year but it is still pending there.

How dumb can one get? Does Mr Aziz not know that the policy of government(s) is to make money and make people’s lives miserable? steal people’s money? If NAB is going to stop it then it is considered ‘interference in policy issues’

A former corps commander Lahore, Aziz, who is said to have also submitted a report to the Army chief about a land scam in Lahore involving some top ranking Army officials including a general, has refused to use an official vehicle of 2800cc when offered to him as the Chairman NAB.

Good job Aziz, if you deprive government of stolen public money then you don’t deserve this car either

[Xcom_Cheetah]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

A good read on the current state of development …

Daily Express News Story

[gravity_killz]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

^ this is really sad... i wonder when pak politicians will start caring about their people.

[Flame_of_Life]

Re: Transparently Corrupt

@Flame_of_Life

Earlier news:

The recent decision of Chairman NAB Lt-Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz not to attend his office is said to be the result of the same frustration that envelops the bureau. Though the Director Public Relations, NAB, Col Zahid, insists that the chairman is on leave on medical grounds, no one in the bureau is really sure if the general would come back. However, it is confirmed that he has not yet formally resigned.

Naveed Khan new NAB chairman](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\07\06\story_6-7-2007_pg7_43)

ISLAMABAD: Finance Ministry Secretary General Naveed Ahsan has been made chairman of the National Accountability Bureau.

Ahsan will replace Lt Gen (r) Shahid Aziz who has been sent on leave for undisclosed reasons. He will be the first civilian to head NAB.

** Sources said Aziz left his office after he was restrained from investigating the ‘Double Shah’ case. **

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tee hee