but they fail to realise that the verse actually means that there is no compulsion on anyone to accept Islam....
the verse continues and says that truth (i.e. Islam) stands out from the error (kufr)....
and anyone who is wise enuff to distinguish right from wrong shud willingly accept Islam and hence there need not be any compulsion in accepting Islam....
once a person accepts Islam, he/she has to abide by the laws of Islam, and has to pray and fast and give off zakat and follow all other rules, and if someone refuses to do so then he/she is punishable by law where there is a punishment defined (like Abu Bakar (ra) fought against those 'muslims' who refused to pay zakat)....
Nicely put. An offshoot of this discussion would be when people cojoin this debate with the Jizya, which in my opinion is much misunderstood by people. A lot of people think it is some tax levied on non-muslims for being non-muslims though it has to do with protection from the Islamic state. This is the case everywhere, you need to contribute economically to your state to be eligible for public benefits. Any thoughts about that?
Just in case PakistaniAbroad still wants a reference, heres just one:
" Those that turn [to Allah] in repentance; that serve Him and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the Cause of Allah; that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limits set by Allah; [these do rejoice]. So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers. " --- Surah At-Tauba, Ruku 14, 9:112)
" Therefore grant a delay to the unbelievers: Give respite to them gently [for a while] " --- Surah At-Tariq 86:17
With Abdullah Yusuf Ali's interpretation:
" Gentle forbearance with Evil shows our trust in Allah and Allah's plan: for it can never be frustrated. This does not mean that we should assist or compromise with evil, *or fail to put it down where we have the power. It means patience and humility where we have no visible power to prevent Evil. *"
Evil is not the same as rejecting one school of thought or interpretation… evil is something that is criminal, such as stealing, murder, terrorism etc. Even non-muslims can work with us against evil. The “punishment” for rejection of whatever one considers Islam rests with God, not with us. There are specific rules of engagement in fight/war against those who reject, and that is only if they are oppressing us and forcing us to reject as well.
As per my understanding… Offcourse Its not the Final word.
Wat is Deen? In short its comination of Asool and Furooaa’t.
Wat are Asool… these are the Basic Principles on which a relgion Stands… e.g Tuheed.. Rislat… Qayamt etc..
Wat r Furooaa’t… The Aamaal we do… e.g Nimaz, Roza, Zakakt etc…
Jabbar… Aqqaid maiN naheN… U cannot enforce ur Deen on others… that they must Accept Ur Deen… other wise they would be punished…
Everyone is Free to choose watever deen they want… as per their frame of Mind… Free Will…
ONCE… U r in the Deen… Say.. U r Muslim… then… U will have to follow the Rules Defined by Islam… Then there is compulssion… then its not ur will to do this and dont do that… If U follow the Rules… JAZZA… if U dont.. Saza…
Evil is not the same as rejecting one school of thought or interpretation... evil is something that is criminal, such as stealing, murder, terrorism etc. Even non-muslims can work with us against evil. The "punishment" for rejection of whatever one considers Islam rests with God, not with us. There are specific rules of engagement in fight/war against those who reject, and that is only if they are oppressing us and forcing us to reject as well.
Of course, alhamdulillah :) I was just quoting the enjoining good and forbidding evil ayah because someone asked if it was a Qur'anic injunction or based on other literatures.
as per ur reasoning, would it be okey to force somone to offer namaz?
aa’maal ka daro madaar niyyatoN par hai… the outcome of ur action is according to ur intention. wots the use for that person of the namz he/she offered in fear of the state? if the fear of God doesn’t compell them to do it and the fear of state does, then who is more powerful?
What do you understand from this? What does this mean to you? Be it just one word, one sentence or one paragraph, please provide your comments.
Thanks.
ps. No copy-paste pls. :)
To me it means that one is free to adhere to any faith and that they can't be forced to change their view to bring it in accordance to mine or anyone else's. Similarly if they want to change their faith its their choice.
. :)
it all goes to what you school of thought you belong to and what you follow. in a TRUE religion there is no compulsion coz NONE of its GUIDLINES will contradict to common intellect or laws of nature. Islam itself doesn't contradict to science or nature.. so its fair to say there is no compulsion in Islam. (can't say the same about other religions)
All nature is subserviant to Allah ... isn't nature Muslim? :)
lets not go deep into that debate :=) otherwise by defination religion itself is a system of life or code of conduct.. commonly known as religion.
Its good you brought up nature. IMO if you just observe the nature you will understant that not only the nature is in lines with Islamic belief but very human nature based on it. Don't you feel remorse when you do somthing evil or you do it after looking in Quran?
whats the point of debating if you know it's a fact. A debate comes when there is a disagreement. I dun think there are any STRONG non-believers on this site! or are there?
Though I agree to the points mentioned by **armughal **I would like to clear few misunderstandings related to force being used for people who are muslims or have entered Islam. First of all, it depends upon the nature of the situation. The force of parents for their children is different than the force of a person upon another person only to show "his" dominancy or due to pride.
It is quite true that it is the duty of an Islamic government to implement Islamic law and punish people according to that. BUT if we are living in an environment where such a law has not been implemented than we have to consider the following:
Is that person doing it in his own senses or he is drunk,ill, mentally retarded ...etc.
If that person's act is ONLY effecting himself or it is also having a negative impact on the people in his surroundings. In other words if it is his "personal" matter or it is also violating the right of people near him
Do we have the right to stop him either through our blood relationship with that person or the right given to us by the government or is it only our moral duty to stop him from that action.
In the 1st case we might need to use force if that person is doing something in a state of being drunk and he might repent later whatever wrong he does to himself (over drinking, hurting himself,....etc)
In the second case if his violation of ISlamic teachings is having a negative impact on the people around him than those people ( or the ones in charge) might use force only if all the other polite ways are not preventing him.
We must also consider that our intentions should be sincere (no ego, jealousy, pride...etc) and we should first let those take control of the situation whom the Government has assigned for this job or people who are related to him in any way.
Other than that, we should try to follow the following hadith of the Prophet (saw) that If you see a person doing anything wrong, try to stop him with hand, if you can't do that than try to stop him with tongue, if you still don't have the courage/power to do it than try to think of his action to be bad, in your heart but this is the weakest level of Imaan.
Though I agree to the points mentioned by **armughal **I would like to clear few misunderstandings related to force being used for people who are muslims or have entered Islam. First of all, it depends upon the nature of the situation. The force of parents for their children is different than the force of a person upon another person only to show "his" dominancy or due to pride.
It is quite true that it is the duty of an Islamic government to implement Islamic law and punish people according to that. BUT if we are living in an environment where such a law has not been implemented than we have to consider the following:
Is that person doing it in his own senses or he is drunk,ill, mentally retarded ...etc.
If that person's act is ONLY effecting himself or it is also having a negative impact on the people in his surroundings. In other words if it is his "personal" matter or it is also violating the right of people near him
Do we have the right to stop him either through our blood relationship with that person or the right given to us by the government or is it only our moral duty to stop him from that action.
In the 1st case we might need to use force if that person is doing something in a state of being drunk and he might repent later whatever wrong he does to himself (over drinking, hurting himself,....etc)
In the second case if his violation of ISlamic teachings is having a negative impact on the people around him than those people ( or the ones in charge) might use force only if all the other polite ways are not preventing him.
We must also consider that our intentions should be sincere (no ego, jealousy, pride...etc) and we should first let those take control of the situation whom the Government has assigned for this job or people who are related to him in any way.
Other than that, we should try to follow the following hadith of the Prophet (saw) that If you see a person doing anything wrong, try to stop him with hand, if you can't do that than try to stop him with tongue, if you still don't have the courage/power to do it than try to think of his action to be bad, in your heart but this is the weakest level of Imaan.
WSA
Welcome to gupshup. I must be totally blind-sighted here. But I fail to see how any of what you have said is relevant to the topic. Under what context do we say there is no compulsion in religion?
Sir… Nops… Not at all… SOMEONE is vast word… in my view no one can force someone for forced nimaz… the concept of Saza & Jaza is from Allah.. not from the ppl… I dont have to quote… you will see lots of Ahadees… Where U will find… the orders to FAther for his Kids… to compell them… force them .. even U can beat them… for nimaz… but thats a specific case… not SOMEONE…
Other than that… I dont think.. any body else has the right to force someone for Ibaadaat… Its between Allah and his creation… if One performs good Amaal.. he will be treated accordingly…
So… Compulssion is from Divine Laws of Islam… Not from the ppl… Coz… Allah has clearely mentioned wat SALATIHIM SAHOON are…
As per ppl’s part… Yes One can ask… other for good deeds and amaal… and make them understand wat sin is.. and how to keep ur self away from them.. but…not to force them.
@ USResident. Thanks for the warm welcome. In that Ayat the compulsion is used in the meaning of "force" (as was taught to us by our professor) The meaning of that Ayat is already explained by armughal I was only trying to mention the cases where in Islam "Amar bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar" is allowed as some people in this thread asked this question. So, my explanation was related to those questions but not with the Ayat we are discussing here as that has already been explained by armughal brother.
