Matsui, that is where you are wrong, on a human level every life is same. Its amusing that you relate life to economics. I can understand why it is so easy for people like OBL to recruit his minions. All he has to do is to play on words like yours.
Of course you are happy that they are fighting this war over there, not here… but at least try to understand the pain and suffering of inncoent people who are paying for it. Dont make light of it. I dont think any of us( I can say it for myself) was happy, or made crude remarks regarding 9/11.
No Kaleem, there is no value to life. There are no similaries, no similar paradigms. That is why we have death penalties and wars.
What is Human level? Let me tell you what it means.
You live in a land that guarantees its citizens the right to the "pursuit of happiness". no other country in the world does that for it's citizens. When people gas their own millions and no one says whup their lives are not worth the same...when they kill each other across sunni and shia borders...their lives are not worth the same....when they burn muslims in bakeries in gujrat...the lives of the prepetrators and victims are not worth the same. Because in all those countries, "happiness is not an inalienable right like it is in the US. that is the Human Level.
Can you stil understand why OBL can recruit minions after I have explained the worth of a life? Because terrorists like OBL want to take away this happiness and poin tto this happiness as the reason for the killings between the people I mentioned above...which is a load of crap! If they wanted to make the lives of their followers and perceived wronged $38k/y they would have gotten the chip off their shoulder and come into the new Millenium.
Madhanee..all those are tactics to preserve the valaution of life in terms of happiness. Morons don;t understand that the reason why Europe is lagging behind in every single aspect of the life is beacuse they are not forward looking. Americans are!!! Arabs are even worse than the Europeans...they are looking so far back but think the objects are closer than they appear in the mirror.
apparently there is a distinguishable difference between the lives of those who are suffering at the hands of USA terrorists and lives of those who are bring supported by USA terrorists. obviously value of live will remain high and regardable on USA side and for everyone else who is not losing any family friend / relative in this war. however, for those who are suffering are fighting for their own survival, and when you are in a situation like this, you don't think of others you think of yourself and the ones you love.
These split threads are annoying.. what the hell are y'all talking about?
You’ve got suicide bombers in Iraq killing themselves and other Iraqis right and left. In Saudi Arabia, you get suicide attacks taking the lives of scores of Arab and Muslim women and children. ** Aren’t these folks demonstrating how little they value their own lives and the lives of their brothers and sisters? ** As a debating point, should you expect other people to value their lives more highly than their own society/culture seems to value them?
Whatever else you say about the Palestinian suicide bombers, at least they seem to value their own lives as fairly dear: i.e. each Pali bomber is equal to 10 to 20 Israeli women and children.
^^ No I dont MV, however, I do not expect "other" people to make fun of the situation either. I do not expect them to claim that their lives are more important than Iraqi or Afghani lives. Remember, these nations were attacked/invaded by US (in my view unjustly), the least US can do is not kill the innocent civilians.
And in my view the war is absolute and just adn necessary against afghan and Iraq. And it will get worse before it gets better. Hitler wasn;t defeated in a day. There were many who supported nazi ideologies in the states as well. Left to fight for the fatherland from Wisconsin.
US is not deliberately killing the innocents. But the taliban and your beloved sunni terrorists in Iraq are.
Hitler will be defeated by his own people before very long God willing! Just make sure you vote the right way and leave your brown shirt at home that day.
People are still being forced from Wisconsin to fight for the fatherland you lost child.
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*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
Remember, these nations were attacked/invaded by US (in my view unjustly), the least US can do is not kill the innocent civilians.
[/QUOTE]
Surprisingly, (except for the "unjustly" part), I pretty much agree with you. But, the tragic fact of innocent civilians being killed sort of brings us back to the question regarding perceptions of the value of life. The people we are justly trying to kill seem to take it for granted that the innocent civilians are just fodder for either their own attacks or the coalition attacks. Otherwise they wouldn't launch their attacks in such a way as to put innocents in danger. Nor would they try to scurry away and hide amongst the innocents they are jeopardizing by doing so. IMO, directly or indirectly causing the deaths of innocents is part of the strategy of many of these thugs. ** Stated differently, each innocent civilian death caused by a US bullet or bomb is a failure for US policy while every failure of US policy (i.e. civilian death) is viewed as a victory by these clowns. **
Back to the question: Who values the innocent lives more highly? The side that views their deaths as a tragedy and a failure or the side that thinks of the deaths as victory?
Who is in who's country and for what purpose? If all this was happening in Texas then we'd get different views I'm sure. The way Bush is going he is inviting such blood shed back home. I'll guage your views then.
Matty, US is not killing innocents deliberatley is debateable. In 91 Gulfwar US deliberatley destroyed the main water and sewage supplies of Baghdad...that led to widespread diseases and deaths of inncoent civilians...mind you Saddam and his cronnies had plenty of resources to live their lives. If that in itself is not terrorism ....I dont know what is? Maybe you can put another spin on it, but I dont think "public" will buy it. Only time will tell, how many incidents like what I described above will be uncovered.
Chotu: Do you honestly think the response would have been any different after 9/11 if McGovern would have been in power? this is the falacy of your thinking. A change in leadership doesn;t change US policy. This is a democracy where deliberations and inputs are garnered to take action.
Actually Kaleem, whether terrorist sympathizers "buy it" or not is not our concern. We are not there to placate their illbegotten train of thought.
AS far as the number of "accidents", it will be a lot smaller number than the numbers of innocents killed by the likes of taliban, ex-baathinsts, al-qaeda, JEM, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc etc...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chota: *
Who is in who's country and for what purpose? If all this was happening in Texas then we'd get different views I'm sure. The way Bush is going he is inviting such blood shed back home. I'll guage your views then.
[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter who is in whose country when you consider the value of life of innocent people. They don't deserve to die period.
As to inviting bloodshed at home, you forget that before there was a war in Afghanistan or Iraq, there was already bloodshed at home. If there was no 9/11, netiher would have occured. And regardless of whether there was war after the WTC attack, 9/11 demonstrated there would be bloodshed at home. And if the question posed to the American people is: Would you rather the bloodshed occurs "over there" rather than "over here," the former choice is a hands down winner regardless of where in the world "over there" is.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
This is a democracy
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Bush was voted in? Is this the latest version of events?
Myvoice,
I will guage your opinion at another time.
As part of our process…he was. Next 
Your process is far from democratic then, yet you speak of democracy?!
You take care of your fascist dictators at home before worrying about the world at large.
Export, don't project ideals.
Wow...Chotu, you must be in a bastion of democratic thought. yes, you have declareed the US undemocratic. what will we do. :(
Demand a more representaive government and not some extremist war crazed fringe. Infuture read the ballot card carefully and don't 'soil' or spoil it.