Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
there was no off-topic question
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I did cite Ruh Al Ma`ani in order to show that Prophet [s] gifing Fadak to Fatima [as] is recorded in books and then refuted the personal conjectures of scholars like that of makki/madani verses .
And for off-topic questions, u just eed to scroll one page back where the discussion about daughters of Holy Prophet[s] was initiated.
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
^ nice try... actually what you didn't realise is the very works you confidently cited because you blindly thought they "proved" your position actually turned out not to prove your position at all and most in fact refuted your conclusion... next time, try reading the books you pretend to quote from so you don't have to go back and rebut your own references to save face ;-)
i have no posts on the previous page about the daughters of the Prophet (saw)... take your complaints elsewhere
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I am still one same stance that Fatima Zahra [as] had the possession of the land of Fadak before Abu Bakar usurped it. And Fadak being snatched from Fatima Zahra [as] is historical fact and its not based only on the hadith we discussed above. So conclusion is still same.
Did i take your name ? Watching unwritten things ? I said it was your camp who made the topic deviated.
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
your memory is obviously as poor as zer01’s… you earlier wrote:
“Was it only to deviate from the topic by gupguppy ?”
so tell me, does that quote contain a reference to me or not??
now stop your silly games and post something constructive for a change
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I think you need to open your eye and see what did i write after that !
"well it was your camp from where off-topic question suddenly began coming"
I have refuted all junk of Nawasib from my end so its not my turn now .
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
^ so when you wrote "Was it only to deviate from the topic by gupguppy ?" you were just hallucinating... you guys do make me laugh... i haven't seen any refutations yet (except where you backtrack and refute your own references), but do keep trying...
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
**BOY-NICE ** - This was a baited question. 
Your eagerness to state that the Prophet (saw) had **only one child, Hz. Fatimah (ra), ** you just obliged and not only took the bait and the hook but swallowed the rod too!
And for emphasis added the following “his only biological child i.e Fatima Zahra [sa]”
So I had to gently remind you [with very broad hints] that the Prophet (saw) did have other biological offspring too.
You had to accept the facts but not wholly as you still denied that he had any daughters besides Hz. Fatimah (ra).
And the only logical reasons for denying that the Prophet (saw) had any other ‘biological daughters’ is to give Hz. Ali exclusivity of being the son in law of the Prophet (saw). I see no other reason other than this.
You and your scholars should know that it is haraam for Muslims to give paternity to any other than the real father of the child.
Recall the Hz. Zaid bin Haritha (ra) used to be called Zaid bin Muhammad earlier and the Prophet (saw) had to change his (Zaid’s) name by the command of Allah (swt) giving him back his paternal name.
Do you have hadith to the affect that the Prophet (saw) did the same with his “adopted” daughters? Like restore the names of their “real” or should I use the term “supposed to be” fathers"? Any statements from the Imams to the affect?
How would you like it if your own daughters or sisters or brothers were given paternity of someone else? Sure you won’t be happy.
Now put yourself in the Prophet (saw)'s place, haven’t you earned his wrath? And by extention wrath of Allah (swt) too? Not to mention, that of Lady Fatimah (ra) too!
**Historically All the Prophet (saw)’s daughters (raa) carried the paternal name of Bint Muhammad. **
And you guys have problem with that!
Umm Kulthum **bint Muhammad ** (died 9 A.H./630 A.D.) : She was born to Khadijah. She married Utaibah bin Abi Lahab during the pre-Islamic era. Utaibah was told by his father to divorce her upon the revelation of the Qur’anic verse that reads “May the hands of Abu Lahab perish! May he himself perish” (Surah Al-Masad, Verse 1). She migrated to Medina. After the death of her sister Ruqaiyah who was married to Uthman bin Affan, `Uthman married her.
Ruqaiyah **bint Muhammad ** (died 2 A.H.) : She was born to Khadijah. She was married to Utbah bin Abi Lahab in the pre-Islamic era, but when Islam emerged and the Qur'anic verse "May the hands of Abu Lahab perish! May he himself perish" (Surah Al-Masad, Verse 1) was revealed, Abu Lahab told his son to divorce her. She married Uthman bin `Affan and migrated with him to Abyssinia then to Medina where she died.
Zainab **bint Muhammad ** (died 8 A.H.) : The eldest of the Prophet’s daughters. She was married to Abu Al-As bin Al-Rabi. She embraced Islam and migrated to Medina, but her husband refused to embrace Islam and stayed at Mecca. When her husband was taken in captivity in the Battle of Badr, the Prophet (peace be upon him) asked him to divorce her. When Abu Al-`As, however, embraced Islam, he was reunited with his wife.
Fatimah **bint Muhammad ** (died 11 A.H.) : She was born to Khadijah. She was the youngest of the Prophet’s daughters and the most beloved to him. She was one of the most wise and eloquent women of the Quraish. She was married to `Ali bin Abi Talib and she gave birth to Al-Hasan, Al-Husain, Umm Kulthum and Zainab. She died six months after the Prophet’s death.
Isn’t it amazing that historically we know the names of Prophet’s wives (raa), sons (raa), uncles (the good and the bad), aunts, cousins, wet-nurse, servants, Companions, enemies, his mules, his camels, his swords, his battles and the number of white hair he had in his beard but when it comes to his daughters - it comes to General Amnesia! Nobody knows for sure.
Alhamdulilah, Sunnis do not have this problem as they do not have any hidden motives for the memory loss.
Zero1 Does the above apply to this post too!
I will come back with some more details later…
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
*Gupguppy * - I won’t be surprised if *Texan Dude * enters the fray and states as follows:-
Umm Kulthum *[supposed to be] * bint Muhammad
Ruqaiyah [supposed to be] bint Muhammad
Zainab [supposed to be] bint Muhammad
And believing it to be true!
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I did create the 'diversion' to prove that there were other daughters of the Prophet (saw) besides Hz. Fatimah (ra) in line for inheritance of Fadak if that was the case.
Historical Facts:
Khaybar was taken in the 7th year after the Hijrah
Hz. Zaynab (ra), Prophet (saw)’s daughter, died in the 8th year
Hz.Umm Kulthum (ra), Prophet (saw)’s daughter, died in the 9th year after the Hijrah.
How can it then be thought that Prophet (saw) would 'gift' something to Hz. Fatimah (ra) but not to his other daughters? In heart of your hearts do you expect Prophet (saw) to decide the matter of Fadak injustly?
Refer to the following hadith from Shia and Sunni sources - are quite identical in subject matter.
Ali said once to her, when he saw the signs of great hardship and suffering on her: 'What if you go to your father to ask for a servant to relieve you a little?' *
She refused, as she was shy to ask the Messenger of Allah (saw) for such request. Therefore, when they arrived, it was Ali (as) who said to the Prophet (saw): *'She grinded with the mill until her hands became hard, and it affected her chest, and swept the house until her clothes became dusty.'
However, the Prophet (saw) replied: *'Would you like me to teach you something? If you learn it, it would be better than the servant: if you go to sleep say Allahu Akbar 34 times and Alhamdu Lillah 33 times and Subhan Allah 33 times. It is better for you than the servant!' *
They said: *'We are satisfied with Allah.' * Wesa'il al-Shi'ah, vol. 6, p. 446
Narrated 'Ali: Fatima complained of the suffering caused to her by the hand mill. Some Captives were brought to the Prophet; she came to him but did not find him at home 'Aisha was present there to whom she told (of her desire for a servant). When the Prophet came, Aisha informed him about Fatima's visit. Ali added "So the Prophet came to us, while we had gone to our bed I wanted to get up but the Prophet said, *"Remain at your place". *
Then he sat down between us till I found the coolness of his feet on my chest.
Then he said, *"Shall I teach you a thing which is better than what you have asked me? When you go to bed, say, 'Allahu-Akbar' thirty-four times, and 'Subhan Allah thirty-three times, and 'Alhamdu-lillah thirty-three times for that is better for you both than a servant." * Sahih al-Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 55
Now, for requesting him of a house-maid, the Prophet (saw) teaches her the tasbeeh and says it is better for them - and the Shia claim that Prophet (saw) bestowed worldly gift of Fadak upon his daughter.
"In fact, Sayyid Murtada (known as ‘Alam al-Huda) narrates in his book on Imamah entitled ash-Shafi, that when ‘Ali became the khalifah he was approached about returning Fadak. His reply was: *“I am ashamed before Allah to overturn something that was prohibited by Abu Bakr and continued by ‘Umar.” * (al-Murtada, ash-Shafi fil-Imamah, p. 231; and Ibn Abil Hadid, Sharh Nahj al-Balaghah, vol. 4)"
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I always assumed the path to be the Quran and Sunnah…I am not even talking about Ahadith here, just the Quran and the Sunnah…(By Sunnah here, I mean the actions of the Holy Prophet :saw:, not what he said regarding a particular issue)…
And from my following or not following any of the As’Haabis doesn’t diminish the importance of the Quran and Sunnah…Whether the said As’Haabis are :Nauzubillah: found guilty of anything or nothing, the Quran and Sunnah is my path…
And nowhere does it say in the Quran and Sunnah to curse or abuse the respected and noble people of other religions, let alone our own…
Then, by many of your actions, you go completely against the commands of the Quran, like mourning the Shuhadaa…The Quran says:
**
3:169 Think not of those, who are slain in the way of Allah, as dead. Nay, they are living. With their Lord they have provision.
3:170 Jubilant (are they) because of that which Allah hath bestowed upon them of His bounty, rejoicing for the sake of those who have not joined them but are left behind: That there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
3:171 They rejoice because of favour from Allah and kindness, and that Allah wasteth not the wage of the believers.
**
Although I didn’t intend to bring a Ahadith, but this deserves some attention..
**
Narrated Zainab bint Abi Salama (RA): "When the news of the death of Abu Sufyan reached from Sham, Um Habiba on the third day, asked for a yellow perfume and scented her cheeks and forearms and said, "No doubt, I would not have been in need of this, had I not heard the Prophet saying: ‘It is not legal for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to mourn for more than three days for any dead person except her husband, for whom she should mourn for four months and ten days.’ " (Bukhari)
**
Why the Ma’tam then? I asked one Shia’a friend, and he brought me the example of Hz. Owais Karni 
…
Even he only smashed his own teeth out of devotion, which he was later told was wrong…
In the Urdu dictionary, Tabarra is defined as “Singing insults about someone”…
And if I am lying, then HERE is a little refresher about what Tabarra is and how much respect is given to those who died 1,500 years ago and whom the majority of Muslims hold in reverence…
BTW, there is supposed to be a great restaurant in Fadak, where the Shewerma is delicious…I will visit it :insha: on my next Hajj…
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
shia brothers and sisters, here chew this if u can....
neither fatima, nor ali, have, not ever had, authority or superiority over abu bakar....
from sahih hadith, it is very well proven that abu bakar was far better than the whole ummah of the Prophet (saw) together, hence between abu bakar and any other person, we, muslims, will always side with abu bakar, the eternal companion of the Prophet (saw)....
and if a few number of ppl, who may call themselves muslims or any other name, r not happy with this, then i dont think it matters much for muslims or for Islam....
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
ig·no·rant (adj.)
-Lacking education or knowledge.
-Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
-Unaware or uninformed.
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
^
was that a definition for the shia group????
it sure is very descriptive of them....
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I think i quoted u for a purpose bro.
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
What does Nussairee mean?
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
ah you break my heart, mate. You really do. :halo:
sahih hadith is the keyword armu, summat y’all know shias cud give a rats ass about. an if you think your opinions will fair any better than a rats arse, then you can kindly, think again.
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
I think u have just closed your eyes from the previous page where i have refuted all junk about the inheritance of previous prophets.
You and your scholars shud know that it is haram for muslims to give paternity of a child to a person who is not biological father .
That is your belief now ours so its useless to cite.
Hadid was Mutazali (Sunni) whileShafi is not a principle source so again useless to cite.
Take this !
No one on earth including me, you, Abu Bakar etc has even dare to comapre himself with the shoe dust of Ahllubait[as] i.e Sayadat ul Nisa al Alameeen Fatimza Zahra [as], Maula Ali [as], Imam Hassan [as] and Saeed ush shuhda Imam Hussain [as] !!!
According to sahih hadith Holy Prophet [s] left two weighty things behind him i.e Quran and Ahlulbait [as] and we Shia of Ahlulbait [as] will always comply to it.
And if so called muslims and those who claim to love and adhere the path of Ahllubait [as] at the same time follow their enemies as well, then its their own choice ! I dont think it matters for Ahlulbait [as].
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
OK…Agreed…But would the Ahl-ul-Bait do the things you guys do? Tabarra? Ma’tam? Mourning the Shuhada?
And as far as following the Ahl-ul-Bait is concerned, which Ahl-ul-Bait are you talking about? The Syeds of today or of the Prophet :saw:'s time…?
The Syed I used to work with, a sparkly character by the name of Zaidi, loved to discuss performing cunnilingus on menstruating women…
I would have a hard time following such an Ahl-ul-Bait…
Seems every Shia’a is a Syed…
And if you are talking about following the Ahl-ulBait of yester years, then does the Quran mention anything about following the Ahl-ul-Bait? I don’t think so…I mean, why follow anyone when the Quran and Sunnah are there? I mean, granted, they were offsprings of the Holy Prophet :saw:, but nonetheless, a prophet who himself used to ask forgiveness and mercy from Allah :swt:…
And you are telling me, we forget the Prophet and follow his progeny? Why? IN the simplest terms please…
Re: The Truth About the Land of Fadak
It might be your conjecture but according to the Prophet’s instruction we Shias follow Quran and Ahlulbait[as] after Prophet [s].
But that was not my point. You asked what is the use of talking about these things after 1400 yrs. I was trying to say that such issues clarify the people, either they were on right path or had went astray. So that it become easy to understand whether to follow and take them dearest or to keep aloof from them.
I have stated above what i intended to say before.
Quran and Sunnah yes does not say to abuse any1 . But yes Quran and Sunnah “curse” evil doers, lairs (3:61) etc..
But again in order to establish harmony people shud avoid hurting other’s heart.
And the web site you quoted , we are not sure whether such things are the trick of anti-islamic elements trying to make the most of the situation or not. But again i will say that whoever “call names” to som1, surely he is doing wrong.
As i had requested you earlier to open a new thread for different topic so that the present topic may go on without any off-topic discussion , but let me try end this thing here.
If according to your own logic one cannot mourn for Shuhda then would you like to tell me why Holy Prophet [s] mourned for Hamzah [ra] ? Was he not a shaheed in the eyes of Holy Prophet [s] ? What about Jaffar Tayaar [ra] ? Why did Holy Prophet[s] lamented for him ? Was he not shaheed ?
Let me clearify the concept from the words of Holy Prophet [s] himself.
**Ibn Ishaq narrates that on the day when Hadhrat Jafar ibn Abi Talib was martyred in Ghazwa-e-Moutah; Holy Prophet (s) called upon Hadhrat Abdullah bin Jafar and made him sit on his lap and started kissing his forehead and eyes, while tears were flowing from his own Holy eyes.
The Sahaba inquired: “O Prophet of Allah! Is it so that some grieving news has come about Jafar that has made your tears flow?”
The Holy Prophet (s) replied: “Yes, Today Jafar has been martyred there, but the troubles and the plight that he went through before being martyred is very grieving.”**
al Bidayah wa al Nihaya, Volume 4, page 673, published by Nafees Academy Karachi:
wasn’t Prophet(s) sure about the best place that Jaffar (as) had attained after his martyrdom ? Holy Prophet(s) not only wept for the martyrdom of Jaffar Ibn Abi Talib (as) but also gave best relpy for any such pathetic comment i.e Prophet(s) was distressed over the tragedies befallen on Jaffar (as) before his martyrdom. The Shias likewise mourn for the cut-throat calamities that sturck Imam Hussain (as) and his companions before attaining the status of martyrs.
Bro this is again your own source therefore it is usless to cite before us.
Incorrect. Who said that he was wrong ? In fact muslims have prasied his love for Holy Prophet [s].
So people are using the usurped land of the Sayada tul Nisa alameen for business . umm !