Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
This is how I see Life1. Its like me going to a Supermarket in USA. It has a Produce Section, a meat section and a seafood section. I overwhelmingly run to the produce section and buy my vegetables and fruit. I cautiously move through Seafood section where I avoid buying lobsters or crabs but buy some fish for sure. Then I totally avoid the meat section that has all the jhatka meat and pork. But that does not mean I dont look at the prices of lobster and veal and ham or sometimes do not have discussion on that with my wife on those products.
We just cannot walk though life (or life1 :D) avoiding this aspect or that aspect of life. Its not always the topic but how you discuss that. I've seen people duscussing a decent topics by using 3rd rate language. I've also seen people partcipating in other wise controversial topic but maintaining their decency.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
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Then I totally avoid the meat section that has all the jhatka meat and pork.
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But TLK bhai, you are not only responsible for yourself, are you ?! If you see me (your younger brother) going towards it unintentionally/intentionally/jokingly/seriously,..... you have to stop me one way or the other. Otherwise you are not my brother. Of course you are not trying to judge my intentions but you must feel hurt to see me standing that close to pork. And even if the biggest religious scholar is standing that close to it, I have to say sorry and request him to share with me the reason of staying that close, even though I know he is blessed with more wisdom and knowledge than me. If I am moving towards a furnace and tell you to live and let live when you try to stop me from moving towards it, one way or the other. Of course you would even try to prevent me with a stick if I still move towards it. At times you would try odd ways to get my attention. Should I get offended and start calling you proud, that you think of yourself "hollier than others" just because you say what you sincerely feel, even though at times, being a human, you get a bit rude in frustration ? Does that mean I should think of you to be a hater judging others and thinking of yourself to be more pure than others. You have never said so, but of course you and I know that it is one's duty to remind oneself and others of their duties no matter how bad he himself is in real life.
p.s. Even though few people are taking pride and taking it as a compliment, still I apologise if anyone felt offended. I understand that my language was not appropriate, which I would inshaAllah try to keep more acceptable in future.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
But TLK bhai, you are not only responsible for yourself, are you ?! If you see me (your younger brother) going towards it unintentionally/intentionally/jokingly/seriously,
I agree with you but at the same time I read CM's comment also where he said that in real life he would never talk to any female using the tone and words that he uses on GS. I know that its tricky but GS is so virtual in nature and far from reality that you cant set a value system based on what you see (or participate in) on GS.
But your OP is very thought provoking and as I said that I agree with you
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
I agree with you but at the same time I read CM's comment also where he said that in real life he would never talk to any female using the tone and words that he uses on GS. I know that its tricky but GS is so virtual in nature and far from reality that you cant set a value system based on what you see (or participate in) on GS.
But your OP is very thought provoking and as I said that I agree with you
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
^ JazakAllah khair brother. I agree that it is indeed "tricky". At times one good advice written by you or other members affect me in real life so much, because I am unconsciously thinking of it at the back of my mind and planning to implement it in my daily life. At times one immoral unthinkable thing written by anyone causes pain and disturbance in my mind for a whole day. And of course I don't have a warning system to alert me before time, so that I may ignore what bad s/he is going to write the next second.
If virtual world illegal "Chaska" was allowed for us, then our role model would have allowed us to just lie in bed, close our eyes and start thinking of all the bad attractive stuff that are not allowed in real world. He didn't, because what one thinks, even in a joke, even in imagination, even in casual talk might trigger his inner naughty devil to start pinching him from time to time in his daily "real" life routine.
I may be totally wrong. In that case please pray that Allah may guide me towards the right path.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
Of course you are not trying to judge my intentions but you must feel hurt to see me standing that close to pork. And even if the biggest religious scholar is standing that close to it, I have to say sorry and request him to share with me the reason of staying that close, even though I know he is blessed with more wisdom and knowledge than me.
I went a to a restuarant with a group of teachers and ended up sitting next to a shelf lined with wine bottles. Did I purchase the product? No. Even if, out of curiosity....I read the label....the price....does it mean that I'm going to buy it and drink it? No. Does one necessarily need to freak out if I happen to be in close proximity to it? I don't think so. I went to a Caucasian's friends engagement party....alcohol all around me....did I participate? No. Is that a reflection of my iman/faith? Yes, it is. Do I HAVE to be stopped by another Muslim and interrogated as to what I'm doing at the party? I don't think so. You would ABSOLUTELY HAVE to request the person (be it a scholar or otherwise) to share the reason with you....for being in close proximity to a haram product....even though they could merely be looking out of curiosity, or comparing prices, etc??? It's a subjective matter....and to each his own.....but I personally find that a bit much. For the furnace example.....I feel that's an issue of more immediate danger.
Yes, it is good to guide.....but Islam also emphasizes moderation and taking the middle path. Too much of even a good thing is not good. A part of the "test" (of faith) is knowing how to handle yourself when you are in close proximity to something that isn't allowed or halal or whatever. You could be near the pork....but it's your faith that prevents you from buying or consuming it. Where does one draw the line? Because while dawa and guidance have their place.........there is also the hadith that a Muslim is one who does not interfere with the affairs of others. Calling whe females here "victims" almost seems to imply that they're naive and easily misled...etc. I don't think that's necessarily true. There has to be some balance.....one can't be prim and proper....and keep a watch over every single minute thing that they're doing....and also censure and chide over every eechi beechi thing that someone else is doing and saying either. There are examples where the Prophet SAWS....when he was angered by something someone told him....he'd be silent and turn away. It's not like he tried to chide/scold/reprimand/judge people on every single matter. While guidance and dawa are important......we also have examples that one of the qualities of a Muslim is that he minds his own business as well. Where should the line be drawn? It's a good thing that Allah is more merciful to us....than we are to our ownselves and even to others. Because I feel that sometimes we....not only make religion difficult to follow for our ownselves......we also (with frequent censuring/chiding....be it directly stated or expressed in cryptic poetry)....make if difficult for others to follow it as well.
***Being a good Muslim brother/sister is not only confined to preaching and guiding all the time. It also includes giving someone space/room...and the benefit of the doubt...etc.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
Well, some very good points. I totally agree. But to be honest after reading the words 'chide/scold/reprimand/judge/cryptic poetry...etc.' I had to go back and read all my posts in recent past and even some of the posts of other people who might have addressed such issues in the past.
So, if I mind my own business most of the time, trying to quietly avoid such topics/discussions for a long time, MOST of the times, giving enough space most of the time, giving benefit of doubt most of the time, just quietly watching the standard rise even further with time, without being clearly addressed by anyone (To be honest, I wouldn't have addressed it if people like you had done it because of their better way of communication). And once I reach a level of frustration that I couldn't resist mentioning this issue without pointing finger at anyone, it deserves to be mentioned with such extreme words ?!? And mentioned as if I have kept a watch over every single minute thing that they are doing ?! and I have been running around every single person here with a stick in my hand ? Anyone who doesn't even go into too much detail of such threads can come up to the same conclusion. Most of my views I shared here even if with multi nicks, the intention was to bring forth a different perspective "on the topic" under discussion with a different nick and not to make it boring (which unfortunately my views usually become). WITHOUT pointing at anyone, but views shared in general. If anyone disagrees with me, and have a different lifestyle, I have a right that he may respect my views just like I respect his. To get offended automatically is amazing. And then get to hear extreme words as if I have been imposing my ideas on them. I am simply amazed. So many of us are confident in their views about people in daily life, on so many other matters we discuss. Does that give anyone who doesn't agree a right to think of them to be imposing their views or judging us (even if they didn't point at us), scolding us ? to chide ? to reprimand ?
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Calling whe females here "victims" almost seems to imply that they're naive and easily misled...etc
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Of course not at all, and not all of them. If you go over some of the threads in the past, and see the number of and the type of replies by some females to the type of threads I have mentioned, it is up to you to decide yourself how you feel about it and which categories you are forced to characterize the general behavior. It is not just that I am calling anyone anything because of their gender, it is what I have been reading and observing some of the replies during my stay here for a long time.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
^ In my view, there are some fundamental mistakes in your assumptions. There is a lot I have learnt by coming to this forum but the most important one is the realization that my interpretation of a subject matter is not necessarily the only appropriate or correct one. Here, your judgements are based on the assumptions that by reviewing some topics under discussion, all should come to the same conclusion. It is entirely not possible in this age and time because of our varied experiences, perceptions and outlooks on things.
One thing I realized quickly when I stepped out into my practical unsheltered life was that I cannot counter a belief by another belief. There will always be someone out there who can put his/her belief in better words and perspective. You cannot always use logic as well as our perceptions distort logic. Hence, coming here and presenting your views and then calibrating your own views against how other think is an important take away from here.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
^ Well said brother. I totally agree. And I understand that when I read again (with a cool head) what I wrote, I find a lot of flaws in my hot tempered arguement. Thats how we learn. Unfortunately, at times I am a bit slow in learning to correct my mistakes. MAy Allah bless me with wisdom to be able to accept and correct my mistakes and the distorted logics I give and to be able to easily accept the sincere advices that people give me.
Re: The male hunter knows the weaknesses of his female victims
Important thing is to understand how and why people come to their conclusions. That way you can modify and present your arguments in a way that is more acceptable to a larger population. Take care.
