::: ChanMahi peace be on you.
mizaj sahreef kaisay hain aap kay, umeed hai achay hoon gay.. jawab main takheer ki mazrat chahoon ga.. I was busy with some personal stuffs. Here is your reply.
1. CM says; “I find plenty of holes in your arguments but don’t have the time, knowledge and energy to gather the material to counter argue that.”
CM jee, I will really appreciate if you could point out the loopholes, as the references I have collected are not my sources. I am not sure how far they hold the truth. I accept, I am not a philosopher or a learned person or a good orator, nor I am fighting with you over here to win something. For a meaningful dialogue, pull out the moves.
2. I wrote;
“We have disfigured the picture of Guru Nanak Ji. We have absolutely changed the pictures that existed forty years ago. We do not know what is the conspiracy behind it. It is not impossible that even the name of Guru Ji may be changed in the pictures in the future i.e. they may start to write Guru Nanak Dev Ji instead of GuKu Nanak Ji.” (Rasala Sant Siasi Amritsar August 1963)
In response to this you go; “…contrary to your claim that Sikhs are calling Guru Nanak Dev as Nanak Singh. No one have done it and no one will dare to do it.” Well in this regard I can only say, type “Guru Nanak Dev” in the search window, and you will get the answer. Here is an example to save your time. http://www.sikh.net/sikhism/gurus/GuruNanak.htm
Again you say; “I don’t know what paintings of Guru Nanak are your looking at but most I have seen(and best so far by Sobha Singh) does not show 5 K’s on it.”
CM jee, I know arts and craft hold no significance in worships or spiritual conducts. Neither his worship nor his sketches hold any importance in your faith. Yet the actual noble impression has been distorted. Not now, but definitely in the long run this illusion will be considered as his original impression. (the same theory applies to the original teachings). Let me find that referred pic in my directory, in the mean time take a look at these differences. http://infoseek.go.com/Titles?col=MC&qt=Nanak&svx=home_searchbox&sv=IS&lk=noframes
3. You mentioned that Baba Shaikh Farid was born in 1189, well I am unable to find his actual dates anywhere, except in your books. I wrote to Sufi Association, but didn’t receive any reply yet. I will look into it. Because the reference I have says that Baba Farid and Baba Nanak, spent 12 years of their life together. However, there is a point to be noted, how come this 200 years old sufi is related to Nanak’s teachings? Anyways let me get the answer from them first. I am ready to take all my words back, if I find Baba Farid’s tenure as you mentioned, accurate. Obviously this holds no relation if one is born in 11oo and the other in 14oo.
Secondly the Nanak’s life span starts from 1469 till 1539 AD, and not 1439. (I know nobody remembers exact years off-hand - you are excused)
Now here is something in reference to Sheikh Farid(ra).
SHEIKH BABA FARID
This is taken from Mr. Pincott’s article - " the story of his first interview with Shaikh Farid", He says;
**"The most significant associate which Nanak found was undoubtedly Shaikh Farid. He was a famous Muhammadan Pir, and a strict Sufi who attracted much attention by his piety and formed a school of devotees of his own. Shaikh Farid must have gained considerable notoriety in his day, for his special disciples are still to be found in the Punjab, who go by the name of Shaikh Farid’s faqirs. This strict Muhammadan became the confidential friend and companion of Nanak; and if all other traditions had failed, this alone would have been enough to establish the eclectic character of early Sikhism.
The first greeting of these famous men is significant enough. Shaikh Farid exclaimed, *"Allah, Allah, 0 Darwesh’; to which Nanak replied, 'Allah is the object of my efforts, 0 Farid! Come Shaikh Farid! Allah, Allah (only) is ever my object.
The words in the original being Allah, Farid, Judhi; hamesa, áu, Sekh Farid, Juhdi Allah Allah.* (India Office MS., No. 1728, fol. 86.)
The use of the Arabic term Juhd implies the energy of the purpose with which he sought for Allah; and the whole phrase is forcibly Muhammadan in tone."
“An intimacy at once sprang up between these two remarkable men; and Shaikh Farid accompanied Nanak in all his wanderings for the next twelve years.” **
To stick to his theory that Nanak’s religion was an admixture of Hindu and Muslim ideas, Mr. Pincott regards Nanak’s intimacy with Shaikh Farid as not going beyond proving the “eclectic character” of early Sikhism, but the fact is that close friendship and constant company with a Muslim Pir for twelve long years shows clearly that Nanak had been completely converted to Islam, for without an agreement of religious ideas such an intimacy which was based only on religious grounds could never have remained unbroken for such a long time. In fact, there is actual historical proof that at this time Nanak observed all the religious ceremonies of Islam and all the religious practices observed by the Sufis generally. Even the Janam Sakhi shows clearly that after this Nanak was looked upon as a true Muslim, and his very touch was looked upon as defiling the Hindu and his sacred places.
The following anecdote is also taken from the same writer whom I already quoted above.
"As soon as Nanak and his friend Shaikh Farid began to travel in company, it is related that they reached a place called Bisiar, where the people applied cow-dung to every spot on which they stood, as soon as they departed. (India Office MS. No. 1728, fol. 94)
This noticeably shows that Baba Farid accompanied Baba Nanak in paying visits to various places. The other obvious point to note is that the orthodox Hindus considered every spot polluted which Nanak and his companion had visited. This could never have been related of Nanak, had he not been a Muslim, since both the personalities were treated with the same attitude.
FIRST THE “CHOLA” AND NOW THE “CHILLA”
I know, you are going to kill me now, but this is also in reference to Baba Farid jee.
The other testimony of Nanak’s complete adherence to Islam is his chilla. CHILLA is a religious practice resorted to by Muslim Sufis, and the religious exercises which must be performed in the course of the chilla are strictly Muslim, as they include saying of prayers and fasting and other devotions.
Sirsa is a small town in the Punjab some distance from Panipat, but it is famous for having once been the seat of reputed Muslim saints or pirs. Here the famous Dargah] (mausoleum) of Abdul Shakur Salmi, a well-known saint, and in the three sides of the yard of this mausoleum, situated near to each other, are five closets, known as the “chillas of the five saints” who performed their chillas in these places. These five chillas are respectively the chilla of Shaikh Bahawal Haq, the chilla of Shaikh Farid, the chilla of Bawa Nanak, the chilla of Lal Shahbaz and the chilla of Syed Jalal.
The reader would at once see that Shaikh Farid whose chilla is met with here along with the chilla of Nanak was the trusted companion and intimate friend of Nanak, in whose company Nanak passed a significant part of his life.
**The discovery of the chilla of Nanak shows clearly and conclusively like the discovery of his chola, that Nanak was a THOROUGH MUSLIM who passed his time in the company of Muslim saints and pirs and went through all the religious ceremonies and devotional exercises which were practiced by those Muhammadan saints.
Thats all in regard to your comment. Now I better run, I can see readers crunching their teeth and rolling up their sleeves.
Oh Zalim you are very Zalim.
Anyways thanks for the respect.
PS 1: I still owe you replies for the early two comments, (1) about chola being hand written and at the same time gift from God, (2) the other about the Nanak’s visit to Mecca was a pleasure trip and not a pilgrimage. Please give me some time, I will answer them shortly before this thread being closed by the moderators or baykhatr sue me under Ordinance XX, for portraying the kalima.
Take care now.
PS 2: RANI your reply is coming up next.]
