The Attacks in Riyadh

I haven’t seen any posts on this yet (maybe i just missed it) but i want to hear what some of you have to say about this, especially the “fundys…” in the month of ramadan, against fellow Muslims? surely you will condemn this…the link at the end (from Al Jazeera) shows that al Qaida has taken responsibility.

Attack Rallied Saudis Against Al-Qaeda: Turki
Staff Writer

LONDON, 11 November 2003 — The Saudi ambassador to Britain said in an interview broadcast yesterday that he assumed Al-Qaeda was responsible for the suicide bombing at a Riyadh housing complex that killed 17 people. Prince Turki Al-Faisal, the Kingdom’s former intelligence chief, said he based the assumption on similarities between Saturday’s attack in the Saudi capital and previous Al-Qaeda strikes.
“You just have to listen to Al-Qaeda’s publications and their statements and you knew that they wanted to continue doing what they’ve been doing,” he told BBC radio.
“From their modus operandi and the way that the attack was carried out, it’s almost an exact copy of previous attacks, and hence I must assume that it is Al-Qaeda.
“They don’t want the Kingdom to progress, they don’t want to see any future for the Kingdom, they want everything under their philosophy,” Prince Turki said.
The ambassador’s statement comes after US President George W. Bush assured Crown Prince Abdullah, deputy premier and commander of the National Guard, the United States stood with Saudi Arabia in the fight against terrorism. “The president spoke to Crown Prince Abdullah and he expressed his condolences to the people of Saudi Arabia and to the families of those killed in Saturday’s attack,” a White House official said. “The president also told the crown prince that the United Stated stands with Saudi Arabia in the war against terrorism.”
Prince Turki said most Saudis were hostile to Al-Qaeda. At least 13 of those killed Saturday were Arabs, with four still unidentified, an Interior Ministry official said. Five were children. In addition, 122 people were injured, most of them Arabs.
“Al-Qaeda, by doing these activities, have raised the ire and the anger of all. Most Saudis are now against them,” Prince Turki said. “Because there have been senseless killings aimed at innocents, they had nothing to do with even their intended targets, which are the United States and the West and the so-called Crusaders and Zionists.
“The fact that these people have targeted not only Arabs and Muslims, but also that they have done it in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, has rallied the people against them.” The ambassador said he believed that the Kingdom’s campaign against terrorism was bearing fruit. “I think the policy is working. We have arrested many people, we have unearthed many caches of arms and explosives. Many of these terrorists have been killed in firefights.”
Meanwhile, the United States yesterday lifted restrictions on the movement of US diplomats and their families in the Kingdom. “Embassy personnel and their dependents in Riyadh are no longer restricted to the Diplomatic Quarter and may move about Riyadh to conduct official and personal business,” the US State Department said.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=34927&d=11&m=11&y=2003

Deadly Bombing of Saudi Homes Sours Al Qaeda Sympathizers
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR

Published: November 11, 2003

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, Nov. 10 — The bombing of a housing compound whose residents were almost entirely Arab and Muslim late on Saturday has appalled Saudis far more than other terrorist attacks, evaporating expressions of support for Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network that were vaguely whispered or occasionally even shouted over the last two years.
“They lost their support on the street,” said Ehab al-Khiary, 27, a computer security specialist, standing on a broad avenue packed with cars during the typical 10 P.M. to midnight rush hour of Ramadan. “They are killing people with no cause.”
“The street was divided before,” he added, talking about similar attacks against three compounds in May that killed 34 people, including 8 Americans, 2 Britons and 9 attackers. “At that time it was seen as justifiable because there was an invasion of a foreign country, there was frustration.”
In the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, there were reports of a certain celebratory air in some Saudi neighborhoods, of congratulatory messages sent back and forth on mobile phones. In that and subsequent violence, the attackers seemed to be succeeding in reaching a constituency that among other things wants to remove a ruling family it sees as American stooges.

But that mood, fueled by the sense that behind it all was some sort of religious endorsement, is diminished, replaced by confusion and the uneasy feeling that the bombings this year are just the opening salvos in a very long fight.

“They can no longer say they are more or less raising the banner of jihad,” said Saad A. Sowayan, a professor specializing in Bedouin poetry at King Saud University, sipping orange juice in a hotel coffee shop. “Jihad is not against your own people.”

The fact that the targets were fellow Muslims lent the sense that the attackers might just be pursuing pure chaos. “If they were really seeking change they would resort to actions that would win them the support of the people,” the professor said. “Before, people could find excuses. It is getting so irrational that you cannot explain it, you cannot defend it, you cannot understand it.”

Of the 17 people reported killed in the bombing so far, all 13 identified were Arabs. Most of the 200 town houses in the Muhaya compound were occupied by Arab families.

The strong Arab identity, residents said, helped give them a sense of security.

“You don’t want to stay in a place where Westerners are common because then it would be a major target,” said Shakib el-Qasim, 40, an electrical engineer who became an American citizen while studying at the University of Texas in the 1980’s.

“I did not expect them to hit that compound because the culture inside the compound is more Arab than it is Western,” added Mr. Qasim, whose son, 10, and daughter, 9, were home alone studying when the attack occurred, the children fleeing the house as it collapsed around them. “It is more like you are in Egypt, you are in Syria, you are in Jordan.”

Oddly, Mr. Qasim had moved his wife and three children out of the more luxurious Hamra compound last spring when his American employer who paid for his villa pulled up stakes after its contract ended.

At the new compound, there was no alcohol. His wife wears the veil. He especially liked the idea that his children were hearing more Arabic on the playground — between the American school and their Western friends in Hamra they had been growing up without learning the language. A month after he moved them out of the Hamra, it was bombed.

There was no obvious explanation for an attack on a compound full of Arabs, although the assumed security of the Arab population may have made the guards less vigilant.

Saudi officials have laid blame for the attack on the Al Qaeda network headed by Mr. bin Laden, who has made no secret of the fact that he would like to overthrow the Saud dynasty. One thing that made him a folk hero to many was that he came right out and called the rulers corrupt, something that can only be whispered inside the kingdom.

But killing Muslims shattered the illusion that somehow the violence, however misguided, was vaguely connected to the idea of pushing reform. What gloating there was on Web sites after the attack tended to question the abilities of the interior minister, Prince Nayef, who is the chief law enforcement officer…

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/11/international/middleeast/11SAUD.html

Al-Qaida threatens more attacks
Tuesday 11 November 2003, 20:30 Makka Time, 17:30 GMT
Usama bin Ladin’s group says it carried out Saturday’s bombing

The armed group has claimed responsibility for the bombing that killed 18 people in Riyadh, warning the next targets will be in the Gulf, the US and Iraq.

Al-Qaida’s claim comes shortly after several people were detained in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday for suspected involvement in the blast.

According to a Saudi weekly published in London, al-Majalla, “al-Qaida has claimed responsibility for the bomb attacks on al-Muhaya in Riyadh this past Saturday. It said in an e-mail message received by one of our correspondents in Dubai that the next strikes will be in the Gulf, America and Iraq”.

The message was sent by an al-Qaida member, Abu Muhammad al-Ablaj, who is in regular contact with the publication.

Al-Ablaj warned those “who work and live with Americans”, adding that “their killing was permitted” according to religious edicts.

Arrests

Meanwhile, a diplomatic source close to the Saudi investigation said several suspects were arrested in the capital Riyadh and its outskirts.

“A group of suspects in the bombing was detained. The campaign to pursue the culprits started immediately after the bombing. Some were also detained and released after interrogation,” the source said.

“The campaign to hunt down those responsible is continuing,” he added.

Usama bin Ladin’s al-Qaida was from the beginning suspected to be behind the bombing in a housing complex, home to mostly Arab expatriates, which killed 18 people and left 120 wounded.

King vows retaliation

Saudi Arabia’s King Fahd vowed soon after the bombing those responsible would be dealt with by an “iron fist”.

“The retaliation would be stiff,” the king told a weekly cabinet meeting on Monday…

Breaking News, World News and Video from Al Jazeera

Killing of civilians is never approved, they are just j-a$$es.

whichever month, whichever city, whichever nationality, whichever religion... such attacks are never right. Innocent people should not become the pawns in these groups struggle for whatever the heck they want.

As i said before, if anyone has been under some sort of illusion or has been hoodwinked by groups as such or groups that sympathise with them as these people doing some sort of mission for god..please smell the espresso and wake up..

Political power is whatthey want, they will use whatever issue to try and rally support for them, and people liek sheep would line up and sympathise with them..what more does it take for people to really see what groups like these are about? when they have blasts in your neighbourhood.

Or are some going to justify this and blame it on the Saudi Government.. no matter how that govt is, no group has a right to use innocent people as their trump cards or gambling chips.

*well lets get them some military uniforms and then their killings of innocent civilians will become ligitimate and a just cause, just like iraq, israel, kashmir, kosovo, chechniya *

thats a whole diff topic..
there is a difference between intentional targetitng of innocent people, versus people getting in the way.

political power in saudia? did they ever had any politics in saudia? its a GodDam kingdom, with corrupt people in power, amply supported by currupt west. saudis created al-qaeda and they are still funding them. this is just a taste of their own medicine. why such an out-cry over all this when they know who they are funding.

hmm so saudis are getting a taste of their own medicine, yes it appears that the govt threw their trash over to afghanistan and di not realize that the mosquitoes that will breed in that trash can fly over to sting them too..

and if they had a gripe with royal family, why take it out on innocent people who have nothing to do with this, why in saudi arabia, why in pakistan, bali, NYC..as i said, using innocent people as bargaining chips in their psychotic power mongering.

*no one is using saudis for anything. infact its the saudis who are using al-qaeda by funding millions to them. do you think they are giving these millions to benefit the poor and needy in iraq & afghanistan? *

actually saudis have given a lot to other countries, and the whole saudi govt al-qaeda link is weak at best..it seemed more like ghunda tax...extortion by al qqeda types to stay out of the kingdom if they get some ransom..

USA was planning to pull out its forces out of saudia and saudis got scared. i won't be surprised to know if saudis themselves were behind these attacks to keep the americans in saudia. remember saudis were the main supportes of al-qaeda and they are still in USA's good book. while other countries are facing the wrath of USA for no reason.

yeah, actually it was not saudi authorities who did this, but it was ringling brothers barnum and bailey circus because the ice creeam sales in their circus were low...

these are theories..

here are the facts

innocent people died at the hands of psychotic idiots...the idiots like these, their supporters and their sympathizers need to be sorted out for once and for all.

OBL and the rest of his morons can only use innocent civilians as their victims to spread terror.. bunch of chickens..

Well written Fraudz

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
thats a whole diff topic..
there is a difference between intentional targetitng of innocent people, versus people getting in the way.

**
so thousands of innocent people got killed simply bcos they were in the way of american bullets? their deaths are nothing but mistakes on the part of american troops? is this what you are trying to tell me? well for your kind information and utmost joy, both saudis and americans are now saying that these people mayhave got targeted by mistake as their aim was to hit an american compound similar to this one. so there you go. no crying anymore. these ppl too got killed by mistake so now be quiet.
**

hmm so saudis are getting a taste of their own medicine, yes it appears that the govt threw their trash over to afghanistan and di not realize that the mosquitoes that will breed in that trash can fly over to sting them too..

and if they had a gripe with royal family, why take it out on innocent people who have nothing to do with this, why in saudi arabia, why in pakistan, bali, NYC..as i said, using innocent people as bargaining chips in their psychotic power mongering.

**
USA had problems with talibans, saddam etc then why they didn't went after them? why killed thousands of innocent civilians and make their already miserable lives more miserable and pathetic? let me guess, again THEY were in the way of american bullets rite?
**

actually saudis have given a lot to other countries, and the whole saudi govt al-qaeda link is weak at best..it seemed more like ghunda tax...extortion by al qqeda types to stay out of the kingdom if they get some ransom..

**
so since they have given a lot to other countries GOVERNMENTS to stay in power and to keep on repressing their own people and they are free to spread terrorism and support terrorist groups all over the world? you need better logic than that pir sahib.
**

yeah, actually it was not saudi authorities who did this, but it was ringling brothers barnum and bailey circus because the ice creeam sales in their circus were low...

these are theories..

here are the facts

innocent people died at the hands of psychotic idiots...the idiots like these, their supporters and their sympathizers need to be sorted out for once and for all.

OBL and the rest of his morons can only use innocent civilians as their victims to spread terror.. bunch of chickens..

**
you have avery active BUT childish imagination pir sahib. better luck next time.

about sorting out sympathizers and supporters, well why not start from the royal family. many filthy rich sheikhs are funding al qaeda and other groups. why not hand them in broad day light and make an example of their scum lives? oh wait this can't happen bcoz saudis have done a lot for OTHER COUNTRIES so they in return will let the saudis to use innocent civilians as escape goats and link every ahmad, mohammad and ali to al qaeda. that would be much easier.
**

[/QUOTE]

no group has a right to use innocent people as their trump cards or gambling chips.

Pir ji, please don’t mind but some times you seem like living in the 70's or may be some Hippie soul has taken over your body. where do you think the army comes from, are they not people? Are civilians killed by the state not considered as innocents, or do we have another category for them?

By the way there are several reports circulating in opposition websites that Prince Naif was in that compound few hours before the attack took place. One more aspect, which many Saudi newspapers are not willing to answer, is that why a residential area with a majority arab population was so heavily guarded.

Pir ji you have lived in KSA, you might know, when was the last time you saw arabs in KSA living in guarded residential compounds, other than the embassy enclave in Riadh.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by MiniMe: *
*
no group has a right to use innocent people as their trump cards or gambling chips.**

Pir ji, please don’t mind but some times you seem like living in the 70's or may be some Hippie soul has taken over your body. where do you think the army comes from, are they not people? Are civilians killed by the state not considered as innocents, or do we have another category for them?
[/QUOTE]

nope military / people in uniforms have every right to kill anyone anywhere in any way they like. pir sahib is ok with it as long as the guy is running around trying to get hit by the bullets. then you can term it as a mistake and these mistakes will continue to happen and innocents will continue to die but its all good and for a just cause aswell. many will die and a few will taste the freedom and liberation.

oh that makes it okay then (sarcasm intended). four children were killed by fellow muslims, is this jihad or just murder?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by MiniMe: *
*
no group has a right to use innocent people as their trump cards or gambling chips.**

Pir ji, please don’t mind but some times you seem like living in the 70's or may be some Hippie soul has taken over your body. where do you think the army comes from, are they not people? Are civilians killed by the state not considered as innocents, or do we have another category for them?

By the way there are several reports circulating in opposition websites that Prince Naif was in that compound few hours before the attack took place. One more aspect, which many Saudi newspapers are not willing to answer, is that why a residential area with a majority arab population was so heavily guarded.

Pir ji you have lived in KSA, you might know, when was the last time you saw arabs in KSA living in guarded residential compounds, other than the embassy enclave in Riadh.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by MiniMe: *
*
no group has a right to use innocent people as their trump cards or gambling chips.**

Pir ji, please don’t mind but some times you seem like living in the 70's or may be some Hippie soul has taken over your body. where do you think the army comes from, are they not people? Are civilians killed by the state not considered as innocents, or do we have another category for them?

By the way there are several reports circulating in opposition websites that Prince Naif was in that compound few hours before the attack took place. One more aspect, which many Saudi newspapers are not willing to answer, is that why a residential area with a majority arab population was so heavily guarded.

Pir ji you have lived in KSA, you might know, when was the last time you saw arabs in KSA living in guarded residential compounds, other than the embassy enclave in Riadh.
[/QUOTE]

its not a question of a hippy soul.

The civilians kileld by state are innocent but they are not targets. civilians getting caught in the cross fire is either an accident or a calculated risk. Its not right, but that is what happens in wars.

people die in wars... theya re not teh targets but they get affected.

that is very different from when a civilian is targetted on purpose. the housing compound was not a military installation of any sort, it was a residential area and there were many non saudis there, a look at the casualty list will tell you that.

are you saying that this attck and the killing of the people was right?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ZaiN_12345: *

nope military / people in uniforms have every right to kill anyone anywhere in any way they like. pir sahib is ok with it as long as the guy is running around trying to get hit by the bullets. then you can term it as a mistake and these mistakes will continue to happen and innocents will continue to die but its all good and for a just cause aswell. many will die and a few will taste the freedom and liberation.
[/QUOTE]

No, I am not okay with any damn civilian casualties..period, so lets stop assuming what I think and what i dont. go back, read some of my posts about innocent ppl getting caught in cross fire in afghanistan and then come and talk..

During a war, civilians get caught in the crossfire, are hurt are impacted. was it up to me I would suggestthat we designate some desert as world military war zone and all the soldiers go fight there..

deliberate targeting is different from unintentional impact. that unintentional can be truly unintentional, where you did not even know there were civilians there..or could be a situation where you knew that people will be hurt, and took that option. It is defintely better to choose the option which is of least harm to the innocent civilians.

do you think this was a justified attack with the right targets and that killing of the civilians there justified. answer in a simple yes or no.

was it up to me I would suggestthat we designate some desert as world military war zone and all the soldiers go fight there..

go fight there for what? Why would somebody or even a soldiers fight with out any reason. They all have their justifications to fight. The Americans, the Pakistanis and even the so-called people from Al-Kayda, they all have justifications.

do you think this was a justified attack with the right targets and that killing of the civilians there justified. answer in a simple yes or no.

The justification depends on which side of the fence you are at. No attack in the world would be justified on the other end. The victims on any side are always innocents. Reminds me of an argument muslim clerics in Bengal had when the East India company came as civilian merchants, people didn’t retaliate since they were civilians. How many times do you think we had that argument since then?

And to answer your question the attackers had their justifications, weather the target was right or wrong is all based on theories, and yes in the process civilians were killed. Now this seems like a statement from the 70’s or do we have a peaceful way out…..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
The justification depends on which side of the fence you are at. No attack in the world would be justified on the other end.

And to answer your question the attackers had their justifications, weather the target was right or wrong is all based on theories, and yes in the process civilians were killed. Now this seems like a statement from the 70’s or do we have a peaceful way out…..
[/QUOTE]

forget about which side, do you think the attacks were justified. I said that I did not think they were right. Do you disagree with this statement, forget about what an al-qaeda goon may justify it as. do you think what was done was right?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
do you think the attacks were justified.
[/QUOTE]

I have already said yes.

may god save your soul.
inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi raajioon.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *

I have already said yes.
[/QUOTE]

Isn't it ironic that the US is fearful of attacking during Ramadan (at least in the past but our own fellow Muslims make no such distinction)?

"We should accept that they are at war with us and cease the intellectual dishonesty and moral cowardice that makes us worry about bombing during Ramadan in Afghanistan while our religious enemies seek to inaugurate these same holidays with the murders of Americans. When you are at war and you care more about the sanctity of your enemies' religious holidays than they do, you are in serious trouble." -- Victor Hanson