Syria is next

Rhia,

Very thoughful resonse.

Let's address them one at a time.

Lebanon is indeed a miracle in the MidEast. It is unfortunate that a country which does have the foundation that might actually support a democracy has almost constantly been occupied by Syria.

Iran, also has the possibility of Democracy, but if you ask any young Iranian it is far from it today. The Democracy movement in Iran is largely demographically driven by the youth of the country, and they are protesting nearly constantly, as well as their university professors who are routinely imprisoned. In many ways Bush's "Axis of Evil" comment was a slap at the conditions which prevail in Iran. To call their government a democracy is to be very kind. It is at best a theocracy, or perhaps a gerontocracy, but many of the basic tenents of a Democracy are a mere lip service. I do not fear Iran, for I beleive that over time the youth will prevail, and the totalitarian impulses of the Islamists will moderate as they die off and youth assumes the mantle of control. Iran is 15 years ahead of the rest of the Islamic political world.

Pakistan was described here as an "emerging democracy". We shall see. One of the things that I have preached about here as a trait of democracy is that it has a certain self-righting balance. My analogy was similar to a sail boat. The boat may tip to the left or the right, but the ballast of democray will right the boat. Pakistan may have elected a group of hard-line Islamists in the last election, but if they are too radical, and the democracy is constructed and defended well, they may be voted out in the next election if they do not serve the people well.

Saudi is perhaps the most hopeless situation, as the House of Saud has painted themselves into a corner. Ultimately their population is expanding at a massive rate, but their oil reserves are shrinking. A hard line Islamist regime would hurt the entire population economically.

Frankly, I am so tired of the Israeli/Palestinian morass that I could puke. Arafat and Sharon both need to have heartattacks, and we need to start over. I truely hope that the US sits on Sharon with all of it's weight to solve the problem, and that somebody sits on Arafat in a similar fashion. Israel is a prime example of the democratic boat tipping over til the mast touches the water. If there is any resolution to the palestinian situation I beleive that a very moderate leadership in Israel will prevail.

(funny when I quote Huntindon, I have people screaming at me.)

Ultimately even a democracy that disagrees with the US is still preferable to totalitarian regimes which have never served the world well. I think beyond the smokescreen of WMD, that this is the ultimate agenda of the neo-conservative mafia in Washington. Frankly Friedman had a good article a while ago, stating his suprise that the US used it's power to invoke a democratic revolution in the mideast. While you can tell me that there are some countries that are moving towards democracy, the oil wealth of the middle east has created a political culture that is anything but democatic. I think that is why people talk about the "treasure" of the Iraqi people. They were born with a wealth that should put a silver spoon in the mouth of every man woman and child in the country. The Baathist ideal of dominating all of Arabia from the north of africa to Iran has squandered the inheritance....

Rumsfeld says Syria aiding Iraqi regime

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Senior Iraqi leaders are fleeing to Syria, which is continuing to send military assistance into Iraq (news - web sites), US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld charged as another senior US official warned Damascus to take a lesson from what was happening in Baghdad.

“I have accurately advised that they not provide military assistance to Iraq,” said Rumsfeld. "They seem to have made a conscious decision to ignore that.

“Senior regime people are moving out of Iraq into Syria and Syria is continuing to send things into Iraq. We find it notably unhelpful,” he said, noting that Syria had been providing Iraq forces with equipment including night vision goggles.

Rumsfeld said intelligence pointed to Syria having been “cooperative in facilitating the movement of people out of Iraq into Syria.”

“In some cases, they stay there, finding safe keeping there. In other cases, they’re moving from Syria to still other places. We’ve also seen people from Syria moving into Iraq, unhelpfully,” he added.

Meanwhile, in Rome, US Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton said Syria should heed the lesson of the US-led conflict in Iraq.

“We are hopeful that a number of regimes will draw the appropriate lesson from Iraq. That the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction is not in their interest,” he said.

“This is a wonderful opportunity for Syria to forswear the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and as with other governments of the region see if there are not new possibilities in the Middle East peace process.”

Syria, although run by a rival branch of the Baath party, has strong ties with Iraq and appears on the US list of countries supporting terrorism. It also was one of the fiercest opponents of the US-led attack on Iraq in the UN Security Council.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) denied during a trip to Cairo this week that the US intended to invade Iran and Syria.

But he said: “Syria does pose a problem, because it supports terrorism and Iran is developing nuclear weapons.”

Washington and Damascus have a history of animosity. In 1983, the United States, under the presidency of Ronald Reagan (news - web sites), had to withdraw troops deployed in Beirut after a suicide attack by pro-Iranian Shiites supported by Syria.

Unfortunatly people here in the States have no stomach for war. They will wait until we are fighting on our doorstep. The time to take care of business is now while we are in Iraq. O well, we didnt finish the job in Russia when we had the chance. :(

Syria and Iran must play a role in the rebuilding of Iraq??

That's what Jack Straw said (not those words exactly, I saw it on TV)...

So, is this the new system of international relations for the 21st century?? Good cop/bad cop?? Seems like we're devolving.. go from the Concert of Europe.. (skip a few years).. to the UN model of intergovernment bodies... TO GOOD COP/BAD COP?!?!

This is the evolution of transnational politics?! Well, this is certainly how you know all the great philosophers are dead...

*Hawks Set Sights on Iran, Syria as Baghdad Falls *

By Arshad Mohammed

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Emboldened by the U.S. military's apparent quick rout of Iraqi forces, conservative hawks in America are setting their sights on regime change in Iran and Syria.

"It's time to bring down the other terror masters," Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute wrote on Monday -- two days before U.S. troops swept into the heart of Baghdad -- in a piece entitled "Syria and Iran Must Get Their Turn."

"Iran, at least, offers Americans the possibility of a memorable victory, because the Iranian people openly loath the regime, and will enthusiastically combat it, if only the United States supports them in their just struggle," he added. "Syria cannot stand alone against a successful democratic revolution that topples tyrannical regimes in Kabul, Tehran and Iraq (news - web sites)."

No one is explicitly advocating force against Syria or Iran but conservatives inside and out of the U.S. government hope the Iraq war will signal to Damascus and Tehran that seeking weapons of mass destruction may be hazardous to their health.

"I hope we could change the regimes without military force and I would not contemplate using military force in those places," said Kenneth Adelman, a former Pentagon (news - web sites) aide and early advocate of toppling Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) by force.

"The combination of totalitarianism and weapons of mass destruction is a deadly combination for the world," he added.

While some conservatives believe the example of Iraq could serve to undermine the governments of some of its nondemocratic neighbors, others simply hope it will dissuade them from seeking biological, chemical and nuclear weapons.

GETTING THE MESSAGE

John Bolton, under secretary of state for arms control and international security, told reporters in Rome he hoped Iran, Syria and North Korea (news - web sites) -- which the United States believes is pursuing a nuclear weapons program -- will get the message.

"We are hopeful that a number of regimes will draw the appropriate lesson from Iraq that the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction is not in their national interest," he said, citing the three when asked what the post-war period may hold.

A U.S. official played down the idea that the United States was contemplating using force against Iran or Syria, suggesting the hawks were simply reflecting the "strategic ambiguity" that the U.S. has long practiced with potential adversaries.

"When talking about threats from countries that have really bad track records and don't wish you well, U.S. policy has been to never rule anything out," he said. "That doesn't mean you're actively contemplating an invasion or the use of force."

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who on March 28 warned Syria and Iran not to meddle in the Iraq war, said on Wednesday the United States had evidence Damascus might be helping Saddam's relatives and supporters flee the country.

While he did not cite Syria or Iran by name, Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) said in a speech to newspaper editors that the United States must "do whatever it takes" to defeat terrorism and must confront nations that sponsor it.

The United States regards Iran and Syria as state sponsors of terrorism. U.S. officials believe both are pursuing weapons of mass destruction, accusing Iran of seeking nuclear weapons. Iran says its nuclear program aims to produce electricity.

"In removing the terror regime from Iraq, we send a very clear message to all groups that operate by means of terror and violence against the innocent," Cheney said. "The United States and our coalition partners are showing ... we have the capacity and the will to wage war on terror and to win decisively."

"We have a further responsibility to help keep the peace of the world and to prevent the terrorists and their sponsors from plunging the world into horrific violence," he added.

Frank Gaffney, a senior Pentagon official under former President Ronald Reagan (news - web sites), said he believed that regime change should be the U.S. policy toward Iran and Syria and said the United States could not rule out the use of force.

"If the threat metastasizes in such a way that we consider it to leave us no choice but to use military force then that would have to be an option," he said.

Gaffney, head of the Center for Security Policy think tank, said many Iranians would like to see their government change and the United States should help them through information flows, economic assistance and possibly covert activity.

"The use of military force is probably genuinely the last resort here, but I certainly think it's like that we're going to see efforts made to bring about change in Iran as well as Syria ... and perhaps elsewhere in the region as a matter of the natural progression of this war on terror," he added.

====================================

and here we go. americans are on a rampage and whatever people have said is coming out slowly and surely. seems like in a year or two, we'll have israeli state extended all over the ME :-) or may be USA will hand over the ME to israel to run.

you have a working link for that article Entity Paradigm?

oops, forgot to post the link :slight_smile:

here it is.

US lawmakers target Syria
20 minutes ago Add Politics - AFP to My Yahoo!

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US lawmakers said they would propose legislation to hold Syria accountable for supporting terrorism and pursuing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

“Now that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime is defeated, it is time for America to get serious about Syria,” Representative Eliot Engel of New York said in a statement.

The Syria Accountability Act of 2003, sponsored by Engel and his colleague Ileana Ros-Lethinen of Florida, would allow President George W. Bush (news - web sites) to impose sanctions if Damascus fails to meet US demands.

Engel’s statement is the latest threat from Washington against Syria in the wake of the apparent defeat of the Iraqi leader.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has accused Damascus of secretly shipping military aid to Iraq (news - web sites) and helping senior Iraqi leaders flee. Washington also accuses Syria of pursuing banned nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and Damascus is on the US list of regimes supporting terrorism.

In Rome Wednesday, US Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton said Syria should heed the lesson of the US-led conflict in Iraq.

“This is a wonderful opportunity for Syria to forswear the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and as with other governments of the region see if there are not new possibilities in the Middle East peace process,” Bolton said.

But US Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) has repeatedly insisted Washington has no plans to attack Syria, even as he has warned Damascus not to support terrorism or pursue banned weapons.

=======================================
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i think every muslim country should brace itself for attacts by america and britain :slight_smile: its clear that america is on a rampage to lessen the threat for isreal and to control the ME and most of the muslim world.
:slight_smile:

Syria has made no comment to U.S. allegations that they have helped Iraqi regime members flee. U.S. reportedly has evidence that such has occurred.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Syria has made no comment to U.S. allegations that they have helped Iraqi regime members flee. U.S. reportedly has evidence that such has occurred.
[/QUOTE]

wow. let me refresh your mind if i may
USA reportedly claimed that they have substantial evidence that iraq has ties with al-qaida and has WMD :-)

where are those claims and evidence now? all down the drain. infact they are now asking iraqis to help them in finding these WMD on base of which they attcked iraq.

we just heard hans blix yesterday that this war was planned way before the inspections and either way, USA was reluctant to attack iraq.

further, even if syria denies the alligations, do you think that stupid bush and his pathetic administeration will buy that? i don't think so because they don't have the minds to be reason with anyone.

USA have nothing but lies. :-)

[QUOTEi think every muslim country should brace itself for attacts by america and britain :-) its clear that america is on a rampage to lessen the threat for isreal and to control the ME and most of the muslim world.
:-) [/QUOTE]

The old Bin Laden song on dance ehh? Your logic "to lessen the threat for Israel" is amusing, Israel has shown that they can handle themselves when facing other countries. As far as the U.S. controlling the ME and Muslim world they sure have a backwards ass way of doing that, but the U.S. makes a fine scapegoat don’t they?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *

wow. let me refresh your mind if i may
USA reportedly claimed that they have substantial evidence that iraq has ties with al-qaida and has WMD :-)

where are those claims and evidence now? all down the drain. infact they are now asking iraqis to help them in finding these WMD on base of which they attcked iraq.

we just heard hans blix yesterday that this war was planned way before the inspections and either way, USA was reluctant to attack iraq.

USA have nothing but lies. :-)
[/QUOTE]

Hans Blix can say whatever he wants. Chemical sites are currently being tested. Did Blix know about the underground nuke lab in Baghdad? "U.S. have nothing but lies” blank statements like that make my case about U.S. being a great scapegoat for people like you.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *

Hans Blix can say whatever he wants. Chemical sites are currently being tested. Did Blix know about the underground nuke lab in Baghdad? "U.S. have nothing but lies” blank statements like that make my case about U.S. being a great scapegoat for people like you.
[/QUOTE]

:-)
oh really? so your now saying that hans blix doesn't matter at all? wow, thats a U-turn all of a sudden.

underground nuke labs? thats more of a hollywood-kind-of story than truth.

yes, i'll repeat my statement
**
USA have nothing but lies and more lies
**

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *

:-)
oh really? so your now saying that hans blix doesn't matter at all? wow, thats a U-turn all of a sudden.

underground nuke labs? thats more of a hollywood-kind-of story than truth.

yes, i'll repeat my statement
**
USA have nothing but lies and more lies
**
[/QUOTE]

Let me guess... you can't be more than 16yrs old. You need proof now and will take every spin-doctored statement from the media that satisfies your frustration. That's also typical of youngsters in the USA who usually start out as bleeding heart liberals. See you're not all that different than your young USA counterparts.

Relax, kick back, get out and play your favorite sport... the truth will eventually reveal itself without any help from the propoganda and speculation of ALL the media outlets.

i feel that the US will not go to war to force a regime change anywhere now. remember that iraq needed at least 6 months of preparation. the military power of US is enough for a win anywhere. but what it needs to think of is the reconstruction that must follow a war. if US destroys a country in the name of regime change, it will have to stay there and help in the reconstruction. walking away will mean more people hating the US. and the US cannot afford another country to join afghanistan and iraq.
there r also elections to think of for GWB in 2004.

Munnabhai.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by munnabhai: *
...
there r also elections to think of for GWB in 2004.
..
[/QUOTE]

Thats why another war is needed.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

Thats why another war is needed.
[/QUOTE]

if GWB keeps on straining his economy over wars, surely the people will not like that. also it will be american soldiers who will fight the wars. and americans are scared of military casualties.

Munnabhai.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

Thats why another war is needed.
[/QUOTE]

Changez_like,

A reporter in Washington asked Ari Fleisher about other regime changes today during his daily briefing. He did not out and out say No but insinuated no and basically made the remark that its just rumor.

Could be that Rumsfield was attempting to stronghand or pressure Syria and Jordan into closing borders to Muhajadeen, and I believe there was suspician that Syria might assist Saddam or some of his bigwigs. I think mostly just political bluster. I wouldn't take it too seriously.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *

**
USA have nothing but lies and more lies
**
[/QUOTE]

100% agreed. **
USA HAVE NOTHING BUT LIES AND MORE LIES
**

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by yaasir: *

100% agreed. **
USA HAVE NOTHING BUT LIES AND MORE LIES
**
[/QUOTE]

Well if you're talking about Bart Simpson and Santa Clause... you're correct. Neither exist in real life. No... seriously!