Once a sperm has fertilized an egg, it is no longer a sperm. It becomes a fetus. And since a woman can breastfeed another woman's infant and actually receives blessings for doing so, then the concept of carrying a child isnt so very different.
Hareem, This is what I was going to say.
Re: Surrogacy
Why do you think it's unethical hareem? I also believe that adoption is the way to go, however.
Aldous Huxley said that these days we have vulgarized every thing except death. I believe surrogacy is vulgarization of human reproduction and fertilisation.
In most countries a surrogate mother will not be able to keep the baby after birth even if she wants to. The baby will be taken away from her right after he's born.
And even if she is allowed to keep the baby, the baby will be raised fatherless.
In former situation the parents will be able to raise the kid after taking her away from her surrogate mother but will that be best for the baby? Would that child be able to recieve first breast feed full of nutritions from her surrogate mother and further feeds for next six months recomended by WHO?
Or he would be feeding on junk formula milk in a plastic bottle with latex nipple?
Also the nikah and it's outcomes are between a husband and his wife, if the man is not married to the surrogate mother [who'll be bearing his child with all the pains] he won't be protecting her or taking care of her as he'll do for his wife.
In India women have turned surrogacy into buisness, they get pregnant with the baby and bear and give it away only for money, doesn't sound very ethical, organic and humane, does it?
This is a matter of opinion yeah? Just as a mother may need a wet-nurse if her own milk dries up...she may need another woman to carry her child.
No.
Breast milk is essential for the babies.
Re: Surrogacy
^ So is a womb.
I don't understand what you are saying in response to Niksik. A surrogate is not supposed to keep the child. She's simply providing a warm, nurturing place for it to grow. Sure, I don't like the fact that it's become like a business in many parts of the world, but to be honest, I don't think that that's the fault of childless couples.
Frankly, I think it's very troubling that people with children would exclaim so easily against allowing others an opportunity to have the same blessing without SOLID (and it's not solid) evidence.
I don't pretend to be a religious scholar. I know that there are many people who are more knowledgeable about Islam than I am. And I am prepared to listen to them. However, that doesn't mean I give up use of my brain. In cases like this, the scholar is twisting the Quran's sacred words to fit into HIS preconceived notion of right and wrong and his paranoia about "innovation" in this day and age. I'm sorry, but that is why so many people have come to doubt religious scholars. Rather than encouraging a better understanding of Islam, they advocate a narrow-minded view to fulfill their personal agendas.
I'm not saying surrogacy is right and encouraged in Islam. I'm saying that no human should be saying with certainty that it is a sin and wrong, because, quite frankly, there isn't any evidence to support such an extreme opinion.
Aldous Huxley said that these days we have vulgarized every thing except death. I believe surrogacy is vulgarization of human reproduction and fertilisation.
Hareem, although I see your point and it is a valid one, I dont agree. Having been through infertility, I know what its like to so very much want a baby of my own...and like many women I see surrogacy as a blessing and surrogates as very very special people.
In most countries a surrogate mother will not be able to keep the baby after birth even if she wants to. The baby will be taken away from her right after he's born.
Surrogate mothers typically spend the first 3 days with the infant. And yes, they typically have no legal recourse to keep the baby unless she has arranged it prior to the birth. (ie., have a contract that states she may change her mind).
And even if she is allowed to keep the baby, the baby will be raised fatherless.
You don't know that! Many surrogates are married with children of their own. And choose to help others attain motherhood.
In former situation the parents will be able to raise the kid after taking her away from her surrogate mother but will that be best for the baby? Would that child be able to recieve first breast feed full of nutritions from her surrogate mother and further feeds for next six months recomended by WHO?
Again, that has nothing to do with whether surrogacy is haraam yeah? Many many new mothers choose formula over breastfeeding! Some cannot breastfeed their own infants. You CAN purchase breastmilk. Yet, if breastfeeding is not an option, formulas these days, while not as good as breastmilk, come pretty close. Formula is lacking in mother's antibodies but nutritionally, it is more than adequate. As far as bottles and latex nipples, they were a godsend for my eldest who had latching and sensory issues.
Also the nikah and it's outcomes are between a husband and his wife, if the man is not married to the surrogate mother [who'll be bearing his child with all the pains] he won't be protecting her or taking care of her as he'll do for his wife.
In India women have turned surrogacy into buisness, they get pregnant with the baby and bear and give it away only for money, doesn't sound very ethical, organic and humane, does it?
Again, thats an opinion...a very valid one. Yet, I imagine if you spoke with the surrogates and the families they served, they would not see it as negative in any way. Most of the time (in the US anyway) a surrogate IS indeed protected by the couple - she receives all medical care and living expenses from the couple to ensure a healthy and safe pregnancy and delivery. Maybe the surrogate also receives pay for her troubles in India but well, why not? This again is something that some see as unethical and others see as a blessing from God - since God gave humanity the ability to develop this particular science.
I have yet to read anything that clearly makes surrogacy haraam in Islaam or makes it forbidden in any other religion. Its very unclear and open to many different interpretations yeah?
Re: Surrogacy
My point is surrogacy should only be allowed under the marriage contract. This is what I get from a muslim Dr Hathout and who is in authority to adress this issue.
^ So is a womb.
I don't understand what you are saying in response to Niksik. A surrogate is not supposed to keep the child. She's simply providing a warm, nurturing place for it to grow. Sure, I don't like the fact that it's become like a business in many parts of the world, but to be honest, I don't think that that's the fault of childless couples.
Frankly, I think it's very troubling that people with children would exclaim so easily against allowing others an opportunity to have the same blessing without SOLID (and it's not solid) evidence.
I don't pretend to be a religious scholar. I know that there are many people who are more knowledgeable about Islam than I am. And I am prepared to listen to them. However, that doesn't mean I give up use of my brain. In cases like this, the scholar is twisting the Quran's sacred words to fit into HIS preconceived notion of right and wrong and his paranoia about "innovation" in this day and age. I'm sorry, but that is why so many people have come to doubt religious scholars. Rather than encouraging a better understanding of Islam, they advocate a narrow-minded view to fulfill their personal agendas.
I'm not saying surrogacy is right and encouraged in Islam. I'm saying that no human should be saying with certainty that it is a sin and wrong, because, quite frankly, there isn't any evidence to support such an extreme opinion.
The opinion is there, agree or don't agree is your choice.
Re: Surrogacy
hmmmm...that would be really difficult yeah? I mean most couples do not know at the time of Nikah whether they are infertile. It comes as a really nasty surprise...and not one that you want to even consider during nikah time yeah? Its one of those life hurdles that the couple must face together when it is encountered. imho
My point is surrogacy should only be allowed under the marriage contract.
So you're saying the surrogate should be taken on as a second wife?
So you're saying the surrogate should be taken on as a second wife?
Yes, to protect that woman and her child's rights.
Re: Surrogacy
^ What rights should she have to the child? I don't think most surrogates consider the child theirs.
The opinion is there, agree or don't agree is your choice.
YES!! Thats exactly the thing here! I think that its a very personal issue and one that comes with all kinds of opinions - but no clear answers as to whether it is religiously acceptable.
The way I view the whole thing is to consider what God is, what He is like. Then...would He approve of this thing? My personal feeling is that He would - in the vast majority of cases. Many would agree with me, many not. Again, its all personal interpretation yeah?
Re: Surrogacy
I've already explain in my previous posts but here's the summary.
Surrogate mother shall have same right as the man's first wife i.e. pocket money, inheritence, protection, clothing, food and shelter etc.
The child will be able to recieve 2 years breast milk and inheritence etc
Aldous Huxley said that these days we have vulgarized every thing except death. I believe surrogacy is vulgarization of human reproduction and fertilisation.
Hareem, although I see your point and it is a valid one, I dont agree. Having been through infertility, I know what its like to so very much want a baby of my own...and like many women I see surrogacy as a blessing and surrogates as very very special people.
In most countries a surrogate mother will not be able to keep the baby after birth even if she wants to. The baby will be taken away from her right after he's born.
Surrogate mothers typically spend the first 3 days with the infant. And yes, they typically have no legal recourse to keep the baby unless she has arranged it prior to the birth. (ie., have a contract that states she may change her mind).
And even if she is allowed to keep the baby, the baby will be raised fatherless.
You don't know that! Many surrogates are married with children of their own. And choose to help others attain motherhood.
In former situation the parents will be able to raise the kid after taking her away from her surrogate mother but will that be best for the baby? Would that child be able to recieve first breast feed full of nutritions from her surrogate mother and further feeds for next six months recomended by WHO?
Again, that has nothing to do with whether surrogacy is haraam yeah? Many many new mothers choose formula over breastfeeding! Some cannot breastfeed their own infants. You CAN purchase breastmilk. Yet, if breastfeeding is not an option, formulas these days, while not as good as breastmilk, come pretty close. Formula is lacking in mother's antibodies but nutritionally, it is more than adequate. As far as bottles and latex nipples, they were a godsend for my eldest who had latching and sensory issues.
Also the nikah and it's outcomes are between a husband and his wife, if the man is not married to the surrogate mother [who'll be bearing his child with all the pains] he won't be protecting her or taking care of her as he'll do for his wife.
In India women have turned surrogacy into buisness, they get pregnant with the baby and bear and give it away only for money, doesn't sound very ethical, organic and humane, does it?
Again, thats an opinion...a very valid one. Yet, I imagine if you spoke with the surrogates and the families they served, they would not see it as negative in any way. Most of the time (in the US anyway) a surrogate IS indeed protected by the couple - she receives all medical care and living expenses from the couple to ensure a healthy and safe pregnancy and delivery. Maybe the surrogate also receives pay for her troubles in India but well, why not? This again is something that some see as unethical and others see as a blessing from God - since God gave humanity the ability to develop this particular science.
I have yet to read anything that clearly makes surrogacy haraam in Islaam or makes it forbidden in any other religion. Its very unclear and open to many different interpretations yeah?
I wasn't arguing fir surrogacy being haram or halal but either it's ethical or unethical or is the best thing for the baby and for surrogate mother.
YES!! Thats exactly the thing here! I think that its a very personal issue and one that comes with all kinds of opinions - but no clear answers as to whether it is religiously acceptable.
The way I view the whole thing is to consider what God is, what He is like. Then...would He approve of this thing? My personal feeling is that He would - in the vast majority of cases. Many would agree with me, many not. Again, its all personal interpretation yeah?
So what is He like?
Re: Surrogacy
^ I think that's a nice idea. Just one question, I don't understand about the child's inheritance and such. Of course the child is the couple's child, of course s/he should have all the rights that their child should have. That's what's expected of children born from surrogates. I'm not sure they need any extra stipulation.
Given what you've said, I don't really see how surrogacy is haraam.
Re: Surrogacy
aha...lol, its a topic of very heated debate the whole world over! But at the end of the day, its a very personal thing, a very personal and complex choice yeah? You can never know what you'd do in such a situation until you've faced it I think. Something I do know however, is that surrogacy has brough so much happiness to so very many...and yes, there have been some horror stories and really terrible situations due to surrogacy but the happy endings far, far outweigh the sad ones.
So what is He like?
Beneficient, merciful, forgiving...
read Koran, Bible, Torah for details :)
^ I think that's a nice idea. Just one question, I don't understand about the child's inheritance and such. Of course the child is the couple's child, of course s/he should have all the rights that their child should have. That's what's expected of children born from surrogates. I'm not sure they need any extra stipulation.
Given what you've said, I don't really see how surrogacy is haraam.
If surrogate mother keeps the baby (as she has a right to do so in Britain and few other countries) the child won't recieve anything from the parents according to the law, but if the surrogate mother is married to the man the case will be very different.
Re: Surrogacy
^ I guess it defeats the purpose of being a surrogate. The point is that she is giving the fetus a place to grow. And she is being compensated for her trouble.
In that sense, it's adoption, not surrogacy.