I didn’t just call it silly, I gave a reason for it aswell.
Precedence is not all that hard to find if we at least know what we are looking for!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frusty.gif
**
I did explain why the mere semantics of a suicide mission don’t make it suicide. As once again you would find precedence only if you knew what to look for.
Precedence is not all that hard to find if we at least know what we are looking for!I did explain why the mere semantics of a suicide mission don't make it suicide. As once again you would find precedence only if you knew what to look for.
Another circle round the block, and back to where u started. Presentation of semantics based on personal definitions, followed by shifting the responsibility of finding relevant precedence on others is a way to prove your point in worldly affairs....not islamic affairs.
By the way, a suicide bombing simply means that the soldier is going to bomb the target and there is very little chance that s/he will be able to come out of it alive.
Peacemaker, why give a fancy definition to a simple issue, just to make it sound the way you want to. Realistically defined, a suicide bombing means that the soldier is going to kill himself, and not know whether or not his attempt to kill others bore any fruit.
I wasn’t shifting the responsibility at all. Infact in my earlier posts I gave clear explanation as to why they are allowed. You are asking for precedence and yet as clearly seen by your posts you don’t even agree with others as to what exactly a suicide bombing means. Hence my remark - which holds - that we should first know what to look for.
For my side I have explained fully how I arrive at my conclusions.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Let’s do one more…
EXACTLY! You have hit the nail on the head. If someone just simply takes his life without it being part of an important task in war then it wouldn’t be the same. That would be haram. But if it is as a result of a task in war then it would be genuine.
[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited May 24, 2001).]
You are assuming that the person is going there to die. The intention in Martyrdom operations should be to carry out a mission towards the enemy. There is always a chance that the person will not die - Death comes from Allah (swt) after all.
It is a war-like situation in Palestine - What do you expect them to do? Lobby Israel until they give in? Or should they just keep throwing stones??
Well... to put it simply, lets leave out the examples of Palestine or bombing civilians. Lets keep it simple.
To those of you who say suicide bombing is haraam (now we are talking based on Islamic sharia and precendence), answer this:
How is a suicide bombing different from a regular offensive on a battleground, where the probability of the muslim soldier to come back from the offensive is close to zero?
For example, in a regular war, if a muslim general asks for volunteers from his soldiers as to who will go behind the enemy lines and destroy the ammunition dump. Knowing that the chances to come back alive are nil, will volunteering for this mission be haraam for a muslim soldier?
Lets just answer this question and keep the discussion focussed, and may be we can learn a thing or two from our esteemed members on this forum.
Good argument, but I don't feel that suicde bombing is comparable to death on the battle field.
There is a difference between killing yourself and getting killed.
One is suicide, the other isn't.
simple answer..
the mission there is to go blow up the ammo dump.. thats your aim. if you die in the process, thats shahadat. there is always a chance, no matter how small.
if you have a bomb strapped to your waist and you are going to destroy the ammo dump, that is suicide.
point is, the objective can be achieved. how you do it is the the real question.
my argument was the final word? i was hoping for some discussion on this.
[quote]
Originally posted by nomaan:
the mission there is to go blow up the ammo dump.. thats your aim. if you die in the process, thats shahadat. there is always a chance, no matter how small.
[/quote]
So, if the only way to destroy the ammo dump is to lock yourself in it and blow it off, then it will be haraam???? Bcz in that case, my dear friend, there is no chance that the soldier can ever come out alive. So then its haraam?
I don't think that a muslim soldier will be computing the percenatge of acceptable risk for death before venturing out for a mission. If that were the case, what will be difference between a muslim soldier and a kaffir.
Just as we agree that 313 poorly armed muslims never feared 1,000 fully armed kuffar, because (1) the will of Allah was with them, and (2) they don't fear death. It is not a matter of computing how much chance do you have of coming out alive. That is not how the thought process of a momin works.
A momin looks at the mission, and looks at his available resources. If the only way to inflict maximum damage to the enemy is to give your life, then this is it. If there is a way to inflict maximum damage and still come out alive, go for it. But the desire to save your life does not stop you from compromising the quality or the aim of the mission.
Similarly for suicide bombing, if the only way to inflict maximum damage is to carry out a mission in a way where you will also be giving up your life, then a muslim will not be thinking "no, I shouldn't do it because I need atleast a minimum chance of making it out alive, otherwise it is haraam".
When you nothing to lose in life. No love for life .. Everything becomes easy.
Dont eat and drink for a week. YOu will no what I mean.
Those people are hypnotized . They are rised to level where normal people like us dont feel it.
If they killed my borhter and siter, mother and father , deprived me off me off human rights. Hell yeah its ok for me to avenage.
It might not be best to do , yet its not bad thing to do either.
so Its Ok !!!!
GO palastinian go!!!!
Arnt they getting killed in process of killing others?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
think about it !
And? I fail to see your point here.
Regardless if you die whilst killing others or not, suicide is still when you kill yourself. It is not suicide when someone else kills you.
I would suggest those attacker to carry wirless enabled remote. And when they get into the mall or building the should make sure that the pass the remote to their opponent and he/she pushs the button on remote.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
PS: ITS joke. Dont take it serioulsy.
Muslim girls committed suicide in India during partition to preserve their honor from being reaped...Wrong or right...It is right...Using your life as a weapon is right if it means upholding your imaan and honor...
^
Same, in Chechan... a girl drove car into army base, killing 27 Russian and herself!