So this is what it has come too? When we support suicide bomings in other lands, it will come into our lands and consume us all.
Not a fan of military dictators, as some of you may know, but I think Musharraf deserves better.
Agreed 100%…but still the man at thistime should not be killed like this…as it would be more proper if the army itself remove the man…the army has divided into jhadis and non jihadees …pervaiz has taken a hard approach to remove jihadees from the army…he also reportedly has said that there is no more jihadee in ISI …so now these decisions r back firing…killing him like this and leting the country into MMA or any other political parties hands will do no good to the country…we neeed army more then anyother thing…
but pervaiz should either improve the behaviour or should be removed…
At least he is not as coward as vajpayee or bush …he is brave enough to stand his point(how wrong it may be) even after the attack…so let him praise for his braveness…
but on the otherhand the way he is reatting AQ khan and others is shamefull…
may ALlah give him the courage to accept the truth and ask forgivness…
Ameen
Bao, in a way I think he is doing a great balancing act and in some respects I do have respect for this guy...One one hand he is appeasing the west and in the second he is appeasing the Mullah party...He is maintaining a friendship with America on the other hand he is garnering new friendship in the Balkans and from Russia...
Perhaps his turning over the Muslims to America might have been a step for the greater good of all, still it doesn't deter the fact that we are left with a leader who doesn't have the balls to say, 'no, we do not have Talibs in our country', thereby saving those innocent Muslims from being sent to torture...
In the greater scheme of things, the Ummah doesn't need leaders like him...We just need one leader who can wield the force of the collective...And that leader can only come about if he has the guts to resist western influence at whatever cost...That guts only Islam can provide, and all the leaders we are getting are not following Islam the way it should be...One leader to who follows Islam truly would be worth a hundred of these morons found in the Ummah today...
So, the Ummah needs leaders who lie to others? Because we certainly have Taliban and terrorists in Pakistan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Bao, in a way I think he is doing a great balancing act and in some respects I do have respect for this guy...One one hand he is appeasing the west and in the second he is appeasing the Mullah party...He is maintaining a friendship with America on the other hand he is garnering new friendship in the Balkans and from Russia...
Perhaps his turning over the Muslims to America might have been a step for the greater good of all, still it doesn't deter the fact that we are left with a leader who doesn't have the balls to say, 'no, we do not have Talibs in our country', thereby saving those innocent Muslims from being sent to torture...
In the greater scheme of things, the Ummah doesn't need leaders like him...We just need one leader who can wield the force of the collective...And that leader can only come about if he has the guts to resist western influence at whatever cost...That guts only Islam can provide, and all the leaders we are getting are not following Islam the way it should be...One leader to who follows Islam truly would be worth a hundred of these morons found in the Ummah today...
[/QUOTE]
yes he is complex personality ....who some times appears to be doing things infavour of longerterm interst of ummah.......infact he was one of those ppl called KArgil boys by america.......but still that only represent part of his strategy...he may be sincere...but his utmost haterd to mullahs will make him move n the wrong direction......
:topic:
There was no need to kill innocents to prove that prez is on
hit list….we are not impressed….
he is probably trying to push that he has some divine right to rule pakis....and allah is with him....
but i feel he is overdoing it...like that fake election where 99% pakis voted in his favour....
any guesses whoz behind this??
keep yor pathetic stupid analysis to yourself, please.
The last thing normal and sane Pakistanis want for pakistan right now is fanatic fools and senseless devotees of twisted religious teachings like you. Sorry for the sharp comments but this is a very touchy issue right now.
Madhanee, you are right that their is a silver lining here. I also see a slow change in how many Pakistanis now see the jihqdi terrorists. Before, any bomb attack or killing in Pakistan was blamed on outside forces, but now people are getting to realize who is behind all of this fasad.
Esp when the tapes of taliban regrouping in pakistan surfaces....its necessary to send US a creative message...'We are still with you. '
Any arrests?? any jehadi org named?? why should they divert the attention to india?? dont they want to go ahead with SAARC??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Madhanee, you are right that their is a silver lining here. I also see a slow change in how many Pakistanis now see the jihqdi terrorists. Before, any bomb attack or killing in Pakistan was blamed on outside forces, but now people are getting to realize who is behind all of this fasad.
[/QUOTE]
send in more armila's and poja bhutt's ...the thing is working ....... mushraff is the best man india can get on this seat..........coward enough to bow to what ever america orders.........
Musharraf’s enemies close in for the kill
SECURITY around Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf has never been tighter. He travels with a host of armed guards in a motorcade containing three dummy presidential Mercedes and a radio jammer to prevent assassins detonating a bomb by remote control.
Mobile phones are also banned from any function he attends to prevent them being used to set off an explosion.
But after suicide bombers killed 15 people and came within feet of claiming the life of Musharraf on Christmas Day, there are increasing fears he could become the victim of an assassin within the ranks of his own people.
Attempts on the life of the 60-year-old general, who came to power in a bloodless coup in October 1999, are nothing new. But this latest attack, shortly after his convoy left his residence in Rawalpindi, revealed a frightening level of organisation and access to information about his movements.
Analysts claim there is such an array of groups bitterly hostile to Musharraf - a staunch supporter of the US war on terror - that it is only a matter of time before the next attempt on his life.
Khalid Mahmud, researcher at the Institute for Regional Studies, said the outlawing of groups who train fighters to attack Indian forces in Kashmir and religious militants had alienated a whole new swathe of Pakistanis who once would have supported the president.
“There are dozens of religious extremist groups against whom General Musharraf has acted,” he said. “Some were involved in sectarian warfare, others in pro-Taliban activities. Many have been arrested, many organisations have been banned.”
But the president’s problems extend far beyond the usual extremists. Mahmud said: “Above all a large number of religious groups are annoyed at General Musharraf’s association with the Americans.”
Former army lieutenant general Talat Massod, now a political analyst, said there were now serious moves by militants to make Pakistan a stronghold for Jihad.
“They want to eliminate him, thinking that the next guy will be too scared to check their activities,” he said. Speaking after the Christmas Day attack, Musharraf said: “My faith in Allah has been reinforced. My determination has solidified.”
**But analysts believe he will need a lot more than faith to keep him alive among the numerous groups now seeking his death. **
Musharraf’s enemies close in for the kill
2 assasination attempts few days apart, either people on the inside want him dead by giving away his movements or he is one lucky guy.
Chickens coming home to roost as they say
http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=topNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4049857
Kashmir, Afghan network targets Musharraf - Pakistan
By Amir Zia
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A network of Kashmiri and Afghan militants was behind the latest assassination attempt on President Pervez Musharraf, Pakistani officials said on Sunday.
I am still putting my bet on the Americans. They get the most out of a destablized pakistan. It gives them the perfect reason to declare us a rogue state, threat to International peace due to our nukes and send in troops to secure it before terrorists get their hands on them.
CM, you are delusional. Suicide bombings are the trade mark of Al Qaeda an associated terrorists, not Americans.
Let’s blame the Americans, Russians, Indians, Ethiopians and for good measure, throw in the Martians :rolleyes:
But let’s ignore our homegrown Jihadis :hehe:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_29-12-2003_pg3_1
EDITORIAL: Who could it be?
Information Minister Sheikh Rashid says the suicide-bombers who nearly killed General Pervez Musharraf in Rawalpindi were a mix of outsider and insider jihadis. The police have gone and arrested some youths in Azad Kashmir after the ‘separated’ face of one suicide bomber was identified as belonging to one Jameel who was apparently said to have been involved with a number of jihadi organisations in the past and had trained in Afghanistan. Chechens too have been named as possible suspects and there is also a reference in the press to jihadis on the Indian side of Kashmir. Some analysts infer from the first attack on General Musharraf in Karachi that Jaish-e-Mohammad and Al Jihad groups could be involved. (We don’t know how Al Jihad has cropped up in the debate unless Harkat-e-Jihad-e-Islami is actually meant, which was the only Pakistani organisation taken over by the Taliban and given headquarters in Kandahar. Surprisingly, this outfit remains unbanned.)
Some Urdu papers have coyly fingered Mushtaq Zargar who was released along with Umar Sheikh and Masood Azhar from an Indian jail in exchange for the hijacked Air India aircraft in Afghanistan in1999. That is taken to suggest that the attack was planned somewhere in Poonch, implying that someone could be trying to distract attention by linking the latest attacks to General Musharraf’s ‘betrayal’ of the Kashmir cause. But Zargar for a time was running his Al Umar outfit from Azad Kashmir with members drawn from among the Pakistani population.** It was Osama bin Laden that got three of his favourite boys released from India through the 1999 hijack. Recently a Lahore journalist was rapped by the agencies after he simply reported that the former Taliban foreign minister Mullah Mutawakkil had attested that the hijackers, while negotiating the hijack with the Indians, were taking instructions from Islamabad. The hijackers and Masood Azhar had belonged to Harkatul Mujahideen which was earlier known as Harkatul Ansar. When the two leaders of Harkatul Mujahideen, Fazlur Rehman Khaleel and Masood Azhar, quarrelled in 2000, Osama bin Laden facilitated the creation of Jaish-e-Muhammad with the help of Mufti Shamzai of the Karachi Banuri Mosque, including the despatch of a dozen new double-cabin trucks for Fazlur Rehman Khaleel.
Jaish was promptly settled in a new training camp. It emerged as the most feisty fighting arm of jihad in Kashmir. It got out of the hand of its ‘handlers’ when it attacked the assembly building in Srinagar. But Jaish and Harkat are all traced back to Sipah Sahaba whose leader Maulana Azam Tariq, before he was killed, was supporting the Jamali government in the National Assembly after being ‘mistakenly’ elected in the 2002 elections. **
Let us take one example from the incidents of terrorism that happened in Karachi in 2002 to see how the entire gambit of Deobandi jihad is interlinked and was run by the Taliban/Osama bin Laden combine.
FBI and Pakistani intelligence agencies arrested an Egyptian Arab Hisham al-Wahid from Saudi Arabia and brought him to Pakistan. He guided the agencies to Gaggar Phatak in Karachi where from behind the police station in a garage three activists of Jaish-e-Muhammad and two of Lashkar Jhangvi were arrested. These activists belonged to Sargodha and had been trained in the Akora Khattak seminary of Maulana Samiul Haq. These activists then guided the police to Gulshan Hadeed in Steel Town where in a bungalow the police arrested one Iraqi and two Yemeni Arabs. The police also searched Mujahid Colony Nazimabad and arrested Rafeequl Islam of Sipah Sahaba. It recovered cassettes showing Mullah Umar and Osama bin Laden and books on jihad. Rafeeq was described by the press as a ‘companion of Osama bin Laden’.
Harkat-e-Jihad-e-Islami owed allegiance to the Afghan leader Nabi Muhammadi who died in exile in Islamabad. It developed that the majority of the Taliban were from Nabi Muhammadi’s jihadi outfit which our agencies did not think too much of during the Afghan war against the Soviets. After the rise of the Taliban, however, Harkat became Kandahar’s favourite outfit. Its Pakistani fighters were sent out to do battle in Central Asia and Chechnya. (Hence the Chechnyan contact which culminated in 2002 in the memorial in Kohat dedicated to the first Chechen martyrs of Al Qaeda being erected by the local PML-N MNA). The leader of Jihad-e-Islami, Qari Saifullah Akhtar, fled to Pakistan after the rout of the Taliban in 2001 and was never apprehended. He and Masood Azhar and Fazlur Rehman Khaleel were nearly never kept under surveillance even after the UN resolutions in 2001. In 2002, over one hundred jihadi outfits in Azad Kashmir quickly wound up and the big ones merged after changing their names.
**The jihad has come back to haunt Pakistan. And it haunts the chief of an army that earlier helped create the jihad for its proxy wars. General Musharraf is doing the right thing by Pakistan by putting an end to the jihadi options. But he must realise that the jihadis are all here. Those who organised the jihad are all here too, inside and outside the army. And the MMA with whom he is preparing to cohabit has won its seats in parliament on the pledge of returning Pakistan to the system of the Taliban. There is no doubt that a majority of the Pakistanis support General Musharraf’s campaign to rid Pakistan of terrorism :k: but the minority who block his way and want to kill him are financially powerful and weaponised to the teeth. He must hold firm to the policy :k: he is pursuing but he must also know that the plots against him could not have been made without some “inside” help and that some of the state organisations that are now deputed to protect him have the past reflex of sympathising with his would-be killers. **
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
CM, you are delusional. Suicide bombings are the trade mark of Al Qaeda an associated terrorists, not Americans.
[/QUOTE]
LMAO! How the irony. I guess its all limited to trademarks now. When the US drops a DU missile on a Pakistani city we will know for certain its the US right? Stop thinking so narrowly. Open your eyes and take off your rose tinted glasses.
The US the US THE US...though the millions in aid from the US were welcomed upon Pakistan as a civilized nation amongst the international community. Now you know that the millions and with it the compromises come with a price.
Let us all pray for Mushy healthy life. Ameen to that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
LMAO! How the irony. I guess its all limited to trademarks now. When the US drops a DU missile on a Pakistani city we will know for certain its the US right? Stop thinking so narrowly. Open your eyes and take off your rose tinted glasses.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
CM, you are delusional. Suicide bombings are the trade mark of Al Qaeda an associated terrorists, not Americans.
[/QUOTE]
So you mean to say that if Al-Qaeda had the latest gadgetry in weapons and hi-tech ammunition and they decimated entire cities, imposed sanctions killing millions, had the power of the media to sway people where they wanted, they wouldn't be considered terrorists?
But since they have none of these and they wage war using their bodies as weapons, they are terrorists?
At least to my knowledge the collateral damage in the latest count was:
Al-Qaeda = 3,000
America = Millions in the last 50 years and counting...
I just visited the jhanda chee chee (sp) and airport road site, exact place where Musharraf was attacked recently. They removed the barracks and are now letting the traffic go from that area. There is a petrol pump, from where the two cars tried to ram into musharrafs vehicle. Right infront of the petrol pump there is a double road, but musharraf was heading on the opposite road, and there was a 6 inch obstruction b/w the two roads, and that prevented the suicide bomber from hitting the target head on. However, he still managed to hit a convoy car, which some say was thought of as carrying the president.
The ironic thing is, a small obstruction, which is absent in most city double roads in Pakistan probably saved the life of the president.