Again you don't know what you are talking about......
My thread was about some historical facts about the start of sects.....simple question was when? you said we shouldn't look into the history because its not in the Quran that we should check history.......when got an answer...now you say that Islam is perfect so no need to talk about our sect history...yes Islam is complete and perfect....but without going into our history we can't understand it....our whole islam stands on Quran and Hadiths....we don't get Aayahs from Allah or Orders from Prophet(peace be upon him and his family) directly early in the morning.....but we have to rely on them as they were organised in the history.....1400 years back.......
It would have been ideal if there was no sect in Islam....but again history comes in...it happened.....that doesn't make any difference to the perfection of Islam.....and we are divided in plenty of different sects
I understand why you don't wanto go back in history because your history only goes few hundred years back then you will have to include yourself in the mainstream sect....that mainstream who you label doing Shirk......while this mainstream sect has got the same beliefs even today which were 1400 years back.......while your Wahabi..Deobandi...Salafi etc sects don't have any history.....I got it now...that was the reason for you on stressing about not to talk about history.....
in this thread I had asked about the first conflict which made Shiats to seperate from the main stream......I didn't ask who was right and who was wrong.....
As a Sunni without blaming anybody or going deep in different things.....we mostly draw everybody's attention towards the history.....caz nobody can change it....and mostly people like yourself don't have any answer.........so you start talking about other things
TE]Originally posted by CoolDude:
**Whats the point of being sarcastic? It doesn't solve anything.
Islam was completed when the Quran was revealed and the Sunnah of our prophet(PBUH) when he passed away - On what basis can you assume that anything after this can be passed as Islam? If Allah has mentioned the history of other Prophets, he has also mentioned that after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) there will be no other. We cannot bring innovations into Islam.
Allah also says in the Quran that there is no Wali but Allah.**
[/QUOTE]
Islam means the 'submission to the will of Allah SWTA'.
Therefore Islam has been with us from the beginning of Hazrat Aadam AS. All the prophets and their Ummah submitted to the will of Allah SWTA.
The Qur'aan was the final seal of scriptures as was the Holy Prophet PBUH, the final seal of prophets.
I agree with Wasir regarding acknowledging history. Otherwise, how can one admit to following the Qur'aan, the previous scriptures and the prophets, which is an article of faith for all muslims.
Is the Qur'aan not part of 'historical fact'?
Time and time again Allah SWTA reminds us of historical facts in the Qur'aan, and to take heed from them and learn from them.
You do not have to be a genius to work this out.
As far as the 'sects' are concerned, they started after the death of the Holy Prophet PBUH.
My actual comments were to a statement that was made earlier and not to the thread topic!
Your arrogance in thinking that any other point of view other than your own must be one of a Wahabi/Salafi amuses me.
Let me draw you to a statement you made earlier:
[quote] ..To have a vast vision of the future...you need a vast view of your history.....
History is something you can't change.....but can learn from
Future is something you can't see.....but can plan for..
[/quote]
There was no diversity in Islam when Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was alive. All the various sects arose afterwards. There is no doubt that the events that happened afterwards created the diversity that we see in today's muslims - that goes without saying. But does this mean that this having this diversity is correct?
Believe it or not, some people will make comments like you made above and others will take that as part of Islam. Islam is sprititual, of course it is, but you cannot deviate from what is written in Quran and Sunnah. We can talk about what happened in history after Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), but what relevance would there be for a muslim? Would it enhance my faith?
My point is that Islam doesn't need all this extra baggage that people have attached on to it. The fine line between culture and Islam has been eroded and so many customs have creeped in and been passed off as Islam.
This is definately deviating from the subject in hand, so maybe we should open another thread to continue.
oh, and cut the crap about this wahabi/salafi stuff. I remember a while back it got quite tedious - open your mind more.
The historical facts which were to change mankind forever and have any relevance on Islam, stopped at the Qur'aan, as this was our last revelation and chance, so to speak. We will have no additional Prophet to guide us to Allah SWTA anymore. We really must use this glorious opportunity to fulfil our purpose in life, and that is to only worship our Lord.
We sometimes have to go back to the source, and the source for all muslims is from the beginning of Creation. There was only one order, and that was to worhip the ONE and Only Lord, Allah SWTA.
The Holy Prophet PBUH came and confirmed what had come before him.
The sad fact is that so much has happened since the parting of the Holy Prophet PBUH, that individuals and groups have made enormous issues surrounding minor differences.
This is human nature, even though we are the best of creation!
I am not a Alim but this is what i know how the sects started, After Holy Prophet performed his last Hajj, he stopped at Ghadeer-e-Khum and gave Imamat to Hazrat Ali, you can find out about the event in the following website http://www.al-islam.org/ghadir/
but after the death of the Prophet when Hazrat Ali was performing the funeral services there was a meeting held and Abu Bakr was elected khaleefa, so we shia’s followed what Holy Prophet said at Ghadeer-e-Khum and sunni elected their own Khilafat which i think ended in as a govt rather then source of guidance for the islam, and ended up after sometime, and the Imamat is still alive and if you read their history, U’ll learn about their knowledge and services to Islam.
[This message has been edited by Insaniyat (edited May 22, 2001).]
Jazak-Allah Bro Insaniyat:
I used to get confused when I used to hear about all problems between Sahabas, and other great personalities......their conflicts.....problems and other things. I didn't know which sect was on right path, although I was born in a Aunni family.
Few years back I did research on the actual all different incidents from the time when Prophet's(peace be upon him and his family) Janaza prayer was ready ......I used plenty of different historians and Ulimas's books to reach to a conclusion. One intersting thing I found out that amazingly the actual Munafiqs and trouble makers are still behind the wall and people are blaming other big names who actually did nothing........I discovered so many practical and spiritual facts......now I have no confusion whatsoever.....
One thing about sects is that no sect should be called Kafir....never insult anybody either they are from Sahabas row or from Ahl-e-bait.....nevermind whatever conflicts they have between them.....in urdu they say BA ADAB BA MURAD BAY ADAB BAY MURAD
We are the slave s of Abu Bakr but we also are the Ghulams of Hadrat Ali......we consider Hadrat Ayesha As most respectful mother but we don't underestimate the status of Hadrat Usman Zuln-Noorain......
We love Ahle bait as they are Prophet's (peace be upon him and his family) GHAR WALAY....but we love All Sehabas(Radi Allah anhum )as they are Prophet's(peace be upon him) DAR WALAY
"The historical facts which were to change mankind forever and have any relevance on Islam, stopped at the Qur'aan, as this was our last revelation and chance, so to speak. We will have no additional Prophet to guide us to Allah SWTA anymore. We really must use this glorious opportunity to fulfil our purpose in life, and that is to only worship our Lord.
We sometimes have to go back to the source, and the source for all muslims is from the beginning of Creation. There was only one order, and that was to worhip the ONE and Only Lord, Allah SWTA.
The Holy Prophet PBUH came and confirmed what had come before him.
The sad fact is that so much has happened since the parting of the Holy Prophet PBUH, that individuals and groups have made enormous issues surrounding minor differences.
This is human nature, even though we are the best of creation!
"
Dear sholay( sorry i dotn know your name)
if you study the sourah al ahzab and zhul you will get your answers from Quran. i m not making just my thinking i m giving you refrence from Quran in these surah it is clear one is waiting ............
i hope you will not only recite Quran but will try to think on it to as in Quran God only gives marks.. hopfully you will get your answers and one more thing what you think we know every thing now ithink it is not right if it is so we did not study Quran for guidence and for the last imam has to cme it is in QURANas i have already told you suhrah as i did not want to tell you from anyother book i hope you have full trust on God,s book
jzak Allaha
What I meant regarding going back to the original source was that, the Qur'aan no doubt gives us all the answers and a complete way of life.
However, the first and fundemental tennant Of the Qur'aan, Injeel, Torah and Zaboor, is is the recognision Of one God and to Worship the One God, Allah SWTA.
It is only after this that the rest of our life guidance continues.