or it is the word "dumbest" that irritates you, ok I confess I exaggerated it to some extent, they are not the dumbest but either they are dumb :) or they don't get the opportunity to sutdy other subjects such as medicine or economics...
Originally posted by shawaiz: *
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It is my opinion, donating such a huge amount of money to a rich american university whereas the masses in Pakistan are illiterate is to me senseless. Nevertheless, it's their money and they can do with their money whatever they want. **
yes to you it is senseless, but to them it is not. And I think they have damn good reasons to do that. we need to have better understanding of islam and islamic studies..US is a perfect place for it. There needs to be a much better islamic studies program in Pakistan too.
I don't think the brightest study religion they prefer to study physics or chemistry, only dumbest study religion. Only this idea of studying islam at Stanford is ridiculous to me.
go talk to some liberal arts and sciences students at the top US institutions and tehy will run circles around majority of NED or state U engineers.
people have their interests, and unlike pakistan where due to lack of opportunities people go for engineerting, medicine, MBA and comp sci because they have a better chances of makign money there, Here u can follow whatever subject interests you and find opportunities.
*well, do you want to say those students who secure 80% percent or above marks choose to study islamiat or islamic science or whatever it is called, well I have never met such a single student in my life, have you? *
Just because you have not met them does not mean they do not exist. reasons why this happens in pakistan are explained above. here its a diff ballgame.
We constantly cry that there are not enough desis or muslims here in journalism or mass media, or in academia..we lament that there is an acute shortage of people who have really studied islam in a modern university setting..the religion, civilization, issues etc etc... can not be compared to whichever jamiah our run of the mill MMA leaders get their sanad.
Think tanks, research, publications, academic research, analysis..thats what this is going to lead to..and that is going to have a profound impact.
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Shawaiz.. since you side-stepped the question, let me repeat.. have you ever heard the word "elective"? Let me make it simple... a student in a university can pursue a degree in Physics, Chemistry, Engineering, business etc, and at the same time, can take an elective like "Religion" as part of his or her coursework. All students take electives, and many science majors do take humanities and liberal arts electives. That does not impact his core major. Get it? :)
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i know waht does it mean, but I've already told you alone the idea of sutdying islam either as major or minor at Stanford makes me laugh.
Rainmaker
there are tons of muslims at Stanford. I suppose having it at a more competitive university would also mean that you have the cream of teh crop who is interested in this subject studyign it, and it does not onlyu have to be muslims. Do you know how many non-south asians are in the south asian studies program at Penn?
This will attarct good students, good researchers, it will be mutuall beneficial.
not to belittle UIUC, which is a great school. stanford just has more clout.
One can argue that they could have split this among a few smaller unis, or more than a few community colleges, but its the impact we are talking about.... There is more to it than just having students study about islam, as I noted above regarding think tanks, research and analysis, etc
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*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
i know waht does it mean, but I've already told you alone the idea of sutdying islam either as major or minor at Stanford makes me laugh.
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shawaiz
there are plenty of people who picked humanities and liberal arts and sciences at major universities and are more accomplished than their engineering and medicine counterparts in the same or lesser institutes.
why does it make you laugh? because you are automatically thinkign every good student would want to get into something which makes a lot of money etc etc..there is more to education than that.
Re: Re: Stanford receives $9 million for Islamic Studies program
shawaiz I understand what you are saying but believe me this is not the case. I'm a Pakistani and like you also want that there be developmet in Pakistan. I just graduated from Stanford and have taken many Islamic Studies classes there and was very involved with the Muslim community and in previous efforts to secure funding for Islamic studies. Everyone in the Muslim community and beyond here is overjoyed about the grant. This grant brings forth immense opportunities for everyone in the school.
I used to think like you before too, but being here and seeing the actual way things work I believe that the effects of this grant will be TREMENDOUS. It might not have a very direct and immediate effect like you said but it will have a very major trickle down effect and will eventually bring about amelioration in the general condition of Muslims all over the world and humanity in general. It is definitely a great step in the right direction.
There are many ways that will happen. Let me give you some examples. It will educate people at the school better about Islam and it will create more awareness about Islam. That in itself will have so many advantages. The people who are touched by this program, whether Muslim or non Muslim, will then become empowered to act as agents of change throughout the world.
Its like planting a tree which gives fruit forever and ever. A sadqa-e-jaareeah.
It will also provide a precedence to other schools to have Islamic education classes. It will be a chain effect.
Everyone who has been at Stanford has been a very good student in school, Stanfod only accepts the academic cream. In America things are different. The thinking here is very different from Pakistan. Good students sometimes also choose majors like Religious Studies and Art Studies and go on to do great things in life. There have been Stanford students doing volunteer work in remote countries of the world and even losing their lives in the process.
Î don't know why you people are making a mountain out of a molehill. I still believe it is better to finance schools in Pakistan in order to curb illiteracy than donating to the elite universities like Stanford. I rest my case.
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*Originally posted by The Rainmaker: *
i totally support the initiative abbasis have taken to provide american muslims with a top class program in islamic studies ... my only concern is the choice of school ... in my opinion, stanford wasnt the best school for this endowment ... indeed its an amazing school but the location and admission standards would restrict the program to a handful of american muslims (no bay area isnt the best possible location)... i would have preferred abbasis to make this gift to a large public university in a setting with considerable muslim population in the surrounding areas ... such as his own college UIUC (enough muslims living in and around chicago area couldve availed this opportunity) or UT-Austin (well, houston is nearby) or somewhere in NY/NJ area.
for those waiting for results, i think they wouldnt be great since the program (or stanford, frankly) will never be within reach of muslim community ... feel free to disagree. :)
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I can see where you are coming from The Rainmaker, but that is actually a very common misconception. There are many Muslims at Stanford. The Stanford Muslim community is very involved and integrated with Muslim communities locally, nationally and world wide in many different ways. The benefits of this grant will not be confined to the Muslims at Stanford only, they will touch Muslims worldwide directly or indirectly and humanity in general.
shawaiz that is your perspective, you rested your case based on what you think, the abbassis donated based on what they think.
Additionally.. there are many who are working to start schools in Pakistan, two groups were just named, one of which i have worked with and know what impact it has made.
however this was an area which was being ignored..and someone needed to so something...well abbassis did something.
and we are not making a mountain out of a mole hill, we are seeing this as an important step which will have far reaching positive impact, whether its in activism, policy, media, research whatever..this initiative can have a great impact.
If some one would have donated something to any other islamic school in mosques, in pakistan or wherever, I am sure there would have been people arguing that a better place would have been like western-american universities:D cuz that's where we need to preach islam..
All it comes to intention and pleasing ALLAH.. if not then all useless :-) ... the result of such things is not in any human's hand anyway...
IMHO, we should not restrict such things to one place but look at other places too which also deserve such attention!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
Î don't know why you people are making a mountain out of a molehill. I still believe it is better to finance schools in Pakistan in order to curb illiteracy than donating to the elite universities like Stanford. I rest my case.
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Your actual issue is not the charitable donation by Mr. Abbasi. Your issues is against all Pakistanis who do not support assistance programs in Pakistan.
What appears to be a molehill for you, is a giant step for us in America in so far as laying down the legitemacy for Islam. Anyway, forget this issue. This like any other issue based in America or Europe has a different meaning to those living outside these areas. Anything we do as part of the countries we are citizens of is, and will always be, looked up upon with suspicion, disgust and unbelief. It's alright if you don't really understand the stupidity in this donation. While, we can't see a better investment in Musilms and Islam in America, a country that is blamed by the Muslims for being on "War against Islam".
What Irem said is true and a lot more. Sure, it'll take time but the effect of this initiative will be far-reaching.
She said, "It will also provide a precedence to other schools to have Islamic education classes. " is absolutely true. If Standford could have a program on Islam then that takes away much of the hesitance on the part of other schools around the nation from offering such programs on their campuses.
See the thing is that you are looking at here and now. Everything this donation does, along with how Irem describes, will show it's colors 5-10 years out or longer.... and by that time... everyone would have forgotten a major event like this.
But, again, in my mind, the issue is not why the Abbasis gave to this and not to that and why in such big amounts, etc., the issue is does it awaken a spirit of giving in me to the causes of Islam? I am more interested in seeing the effects of this on other Muslims.... sure let's flood the programs supporting schools in Pakistan... but will that ever happen? How many people you know in your family and friends who have donated? This is not a accuastory statement... just general. I know people who are stingy. When I join an effort, like with munia for CAIR, I take pride in being a catalyst.... I ask my family and friends for "small" donations... power in numbers and more willingness to give in the future. Why don't you become a catalyst for change.... however small... for we can't rise above that level on a personal level. How about you, and all of us for that matter, talk about the charities we all have given to recently, why, and when? Amounts don't matter... it's the willingness to give and that's the better part of being charitable over any amount of money.
thanks for the responses fraudia and irem,
well i juat assumed that it would be better for such a program to be exposed to the masses rather than the 'cream' ...
... i wouldnt however argue over this point. yeah better students and researchers would make better thinktanks but again programs at grad level are near about the same... its about the funding ... (going way off tangent) ...
now that a good step has been taken, i think we all (yes shawaiz you too) should appreciate it and lets hope that this program creates a better understanding about islam and the muslims.
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*Originally posted by The Rainmaker: *
well i juat assumed that it would be better for such a program to be exposed to the masses rather than the 'cream' ...
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agreed cuz Islam is for masses not for few :~)
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*Originally posted by Anwaar Qureshi: *
...
IMHO, we should not restrict such things to one place but look at oter
places too which also deserve such attention!
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Absolutely right!
Most of all the charities given by Musilms in America and Europe go overseas. Most of the qurbaanies by American and European Muslims are done the Muslim countries. Most of the Zakat is sent out of America and Europe. It is a great thing to see that some of that money was invested where we live, have families, face prejudices, work, have homes and die. Many people I know prefer to be flown out of U.S. after they die and be burried from the countries they came from.
You are right... and I think all of us should "invest" 10% of our charitable amounts to local initiatives.... other then giving to the local mosques to help pay their property taxes and salaries to their officials most of whom are oblivious to the communities' needs and the role of Islam and Muslims in the communities.