Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
That’s pathetic. We aren’t going to go anywhere with this kind of money for education. The problem is that we do not consider education as vital as defence of the country.
As a starter, the education budget should be linked with the defence budget so that education gets the same amount as the defence gets.
There is no better defence than eduction!
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
But you and I, both know Amal, any of the mainstream parties will never even implement 1 point from the 12 I listed. 
Even one from the first three, they will never do is, because frankly that will be the death of these parties in the future. Maybe PTI, maybe they will do 10% to 20% of these, and well that should be improvement enough.
Much more than the governments, I have faith in some blessed individuals who are providing quality private education at very nominal rates. I can name half a dozen that I personally know of, and those are the guys (men and women) who deserve our utmost support and respect. Not the schools that charge five figure fees every month. 
Hats off to them. There is one very near to where I live (Johar Town) that was even covered by ADGKS (Aik Din Geo Kay Saath). Inspirational stuff.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
It's good that something is being done at some levels, but given the damage inflicted on this society and country, we need an educational policy that caters to entire society. I see your point of parties not implementing any revolutionary policy for their own vested interests, but a mass-scale educational move is not possible without official blessings, resources and infrastructure.
I think media and civial society should join hands and force every single party in the country to take genuine interest and steps to help set such a policy and remain fully committed to the vision of truely educated Pakistan.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Yeah, that can work. :k: To some extent, at least. Make them submit, force these parties into the move. Then again the religious fascists will come around with their demands. Sectarian divisions in curriculum among others. But if we can somehow go around it all, and raise one generation (at least 10-16 years) with what I listed above, no country in the world can catch us. My $0.02.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Look at the shtick these politicians have pulled up.:nahi: Just look at it.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
We should spend on Education if we want to bring some change in our future..
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
You conveniently forgot to give the amount spent on education , to be objective you should have provided those figures too.
look** at the percentage 50 vs 7** , If need to be strong, hornable , undefeatable nation we need to spend 50 pecent on education and 7 percent on defence specialy after becoming a nuclear power. We already have power of mutually assured destrucion (neuclear bomb) up our sleaves we do not need to spend that kind of money on traditional warfare. If we educate our kids we would be able to invent more fast and furious and cheaper alternatives of defending ourselves.
Can you elaborate on these numbers please?
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Can you elaborate on these numbers please?
I took those figures from post # 9.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
I took those figures from post # 9.
Can you please show me where cuz I couldn't find 50 vs 7? He only referred to defense budget being 50% (half) of its own previous number and not 50% of GDP. When I last checked defense budget was ~15% of GDP.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Mirch: Captain1 is right. I was also thinking what you mean by quoting figures 50 Vs 7 in favour of defence converting to 50 Vs 7 in favour of education. :).
There is no doubt that Pakistan needs to spend more on education. At present, Pakistan spends ~2 to 2.5 percent of GDP on education … though target set in 2000 by Musharraf government was to spend ~7 percent of GDP on education. It does not mean, this low expenditure on education is because Pakistan spends a lot on defence, as defence budget is ~2.5 to 3 percent of GDP (5.5 to 6 billion US dollars).
So to increase expenditure on education, Pakistan should not spend less on defence nor Pakistan need to spend less on defence. Fact is that, Pakistan can allocate and spend more on education without reducing expenditure on defence. This can be done by:
1: Eliminating or at least decreasing corruption (it cost ~ US $ 25 billion a year)
2: Increasing revenue (I think, if Pakistan stops corruption and increase efficiency, revenue could triple easily)
3: Stop wasting money on doling state owned enterprises (it cost ~ £3.5 billion a year)
4: Stop wasting money on luxuries of elected representatives
5: Give good and efficient governance free from corruption and nepotism, so that Pakistan starts growing at above 7 percent a year. That would increase revenue as well as would make country richer.
Etc.
Further, government can make education more efficient by spending money at right places and stopping corruption as well as wastes in education sector.
Abolishing all quota system from country and curbing on nepotism in jobs as well as admission would further increase efficiency as well as productivity in education sector (and country at large).
Note: quota system, corruption, and nepotism effects standard of education as well as governance directly and indirectly. Directly because inefficient and incapable people get into job who do not rely on their work but rely on relationships, contacts and do corruption without care or fear. Indirectly, because it creates frustration amongst unemployed (thus increasing crime) and takes away incentives to work hard from people at work as well as students who are prospective employees.
Anyhow, fact is that, if one takes into account government as well as private expenditure on education, Pakistan spends as much on education (~2 to 2.5 percent) as defence (~2.5 to 3 percent).
Pakistan operating expenditure on education in current dollars (wages, Salaries, etc). The figure excludes capital investments on education (buildings and equipments). Thus, if one takes into account capital investments, total expenditure on education would be much higher than mentioned below. The figures as well as graph given on the site mentioned shows how education budget started increasing exponentially from 2003-04 onward until year 2007-08 (increased ~2.5 times in 4 years).
Pakistan - education expenditure
Year: … Value (current US dollars)
Yahya period:
1969-70: US $ 102 million
1970-71: US $ 138 million
Bhutto Period:
1971-72: US $ 120 million
Educational institutions were nationalised in 1972 resulting in reduced educational expenditure as well as deteriorating educational standard in Pakistan.
1972-73: US $ 83 million
1973-74: US $ 116 million
1974-75: US $ 178 million
1975-76: US $ 210 million
1976-77: US $ 245 million
Doubled in 6 years from $120 million to $245 million
Zia period:
1977-78: US $ 298 million
1978-79: US $ 331 million
Denationalisation of education in 1979 saw significant growth in education expenditure from private sectors.
1979-80: US $ 396 million
1980-81: US $ 458 million
1981-82: US $ 493 million
1982-83: US $ 556 million
1983-84: US $ 682 million
1984-85: US $ 714 million
1985-86: US $ 761 million
1986-87: US $ 750 million
1987-88: US $ 766 million
Increased 3.1 times in 11 years, from $245 million to $766 million
Period of thugs (BB and NS):
1988-89: US $ 833 million
1989-90: US $ 900 million
1990-91: US $ 1,030 million
1991-92: US $ 1,020 million
1992-93: US $ 1,184 million
1993-94: US $ 1,246 million
1994-95: US $ 1,467 million
1995-96: US $ 1,498 million
1996-97: US $ 1,429 million
1997-98: US $ 1,433 million
1998-99: US $ 1,463 million
Increased 1.9 times in 11 years, from $766 million to $1,463 million
Musharraf period:
1999-00: US $ 1,712 million
2000-01: US $ 1,673 million
2001-02: US $ 1,704 million
2002-03: US $ 2,012 million
Education (and health care) got transferred to local government from Provincial government.
2003-04: US $ 1,520 million
2004-05: US $ 1,914 million
2005-06: US $ 2,525 million
2006-07: US $ 2,999 million
2007-08: US $ 3,603 million
(Increased 2.5 times in 9 years, from $1,463 million to $3,603 million)
Zardari period:
2008-09: US $ 3,178 million
(Decreased ~15 percent in first year from $3,603 million to $3,178 million, and still decreasing)
Note: Increase of 2.5 times in 9 years during Musharraf period is misleading as increase was substantially higher because a lot was spent on infrastructures, buildings and equipments during Musharraf period, more than during any past periods. Corruption was also very low during Musharraf period, and that means most spent was utilised productively.
Further, educational responsibility and budget was transferred to local governments from provincial governments in year 2002-03. That means more on the spot supervision by local government of what was happening to money spent. On the other hand, since representatives in local government were available to people within their locality, people could have monitored their performance and budget spent by questioning and scrutinising them easily, making demands from them what people wanted.
[Anyhow, all such demands, questioning and scrutinising stopped once local government system got packed up]
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
^^^^
How have you converted Pakistani Rs in millions in to US $ millions? Is it by dividing 10 to the budgeted figures. If it is true, your all figures are wrong and out by one digit on the right.:)
Can you linke what you are saying? Zardaris figure in 2010-2011 were higher (Rs. 40, 324 millions), higher than Musharraf, in current official budget. Still it is the second last expenditure and in priority in the budget. It should have been no# 1 priority for decades.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
^^^ yar thora sa zahen istamaal ker liya karo. 
I did not give my figures or converted anything. I just copied the figures already given on the site I quoted. The figures are given in US dollar units and what I did was rounded the figures in millions for ease. Only problem is that site address that comes in gupshup post is as below (Pakistan - education expenditure), so click on that:
Pakistan - education expenditure
Maybe, you got confused and want URL address exactly as it is … so here is site address (it would lead you to same site if you click above ‘Pakistan - education expenditure’.
**
**As for Rs 40 billion you quoted what is mentioned in Pakistani budget 2011-12, it comes to less than $440 million. Anyhow, that is federal government expenditure on education and it does not represent total Pakistani expenditure on education.
Pakistan expenditure on education comes from various sources:
1: Federal government expenditure.
2: Provincial government expenditure.
3: Local government expenditure (that is now part of Provincial government expenditure)
4: Private (non-government) expenditure
As mentioned on site, figures given are total Pakistani operating expenditure on education, that is, wages, salaries and other current expenditures. It does not include expenditure on education related capital investment (buildings, materials, equipments, etc).
[For your information, if I wanted to convert rupees into dollars, I would have divided rupee figures by 91 for year 2011-12 … but … would have divided rupee figures by 60 for year 2007-08, as that was the exchange rate in 2007-08.].
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
^^^ yar thora sa zahen istamaal ker liya karo. :)
1: Federal government expenditure. 2: Provincial government expenditure. 3: Local government expenditure (that is now part of Provincial government expenditure) 4: Private (non-government) expenditure
Aap buhat apna zehan istamaal kar rahay hain. Isn't federal allocation is transferred to provinces and and provinces in turn transfer to cities/towns etc.? According to you during Zardari's time 2008-09, the education budget was $3.178 billions. I want proof/link/ and distribution of education expenditure item wise you have mentioned above.
Cooking up figures, lying on this forum giving fictitious facts and figures are your expertise. Isn't it?
Please don't prove your lies by giving 10 pages meaningless response. Thanks. Just focus on what I have requested.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Can you send me your email address with permission to share this with Imran?
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
its not only about funds and fancy schemes.........even if you give funds......there is no infrastructure/mechanism to spend it effectively.......
a complete overhaul is needed............... giving toffees and opening tv channels isn't going to cut it.....
the beaurocracy, the education deptts, minisitry, boards.......... everything needs to be integrated ........
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
^ very true NomiCA.
but even an overhaul needs to be executed with a forward looking plan.
you can't just launch an overhaul and not have a plan to work towards.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
this usually involves 3 steps (in short)..
an overall vision/objective......of what outcome is desired
extensive study/mapping of existing system to figure out where the problems are
3.development of plan/proposal keeping in view 1 & 2 above and implementing it...
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Shehzad Roy is working on reforms of govt schools, which is a very good initiative … zindagi trust
btw, Superman Shared some really fabulous points!:k:
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Is it possible if these suggestions be sent to present government (President, PM and Education Minister)? It will definitely help them to make a effective education policy particularly which should not only be helpful to cities but rural/backward areas too?
If America and Canada can make education up to grade 12 free for every student with super class education facilities, why not Pakistan achieve this? Only the priority has to change. Bring this program from bottom of the budget to # 1 on the list.
Re: Standard of Education in Pakistan
Why, of course. 
By all means please do. I will share share my email address with you via PM in a moment, and you can take it up from there.
While I agree with most of what you said, it’s not just only about giving toffees and opening TV channels. :no: These are just part of the bigger plan, the grander scheme of things. And that is the overhaul of the attitude we give to education. Forget the governance and infrastructure aspect of it, the outdated system and curriculum means that we are turning off our students and shying them away from quality education in the first place. For example, forget the Punjab Textbook Board curriculum, even the Oxford books need updating and can do with a lot of improvements.
But like you said, most of all the complete system needs an overhaul, and like I said as well, everything needs to be integrated to function in the most effective way possible. Standardized, updated, and integrated. You can’t do much without stringing these three together when it comes to educational reforms. The more fragmented it is, the more disjointed it gets. And the more disjointed it gets, the more dated (and ultimately, useless) it is.
Exactly. 
If you want to bring about a change, the first order of business is a working plan. And secondly, ways to accurately implement it. We have almost everything we need in the country anyway, from experts to passionate public. They may not be there for all to see, but they are there. Out of the 180 million, at least 18 million are top class people. Or at the very least 1.8 million. More than enough.
But if you go on overhauling something without a set and clear vision, it’s just going to turn out like what Shahbaz Shareef is doing. Sadly.
Thanks, buddy. These are what I just brought up real quick. 
These are just 12 points, I can list twice more, and can probably furnish a full educational policy paper (or presentation) if I wanted too, with or without the accompanying statistics. And all highly implementable plans. No need for the moon and the stars, all you need is the will and drive for change. And implementing them step-by-one-solid-step at a time.
By all means, if it is possible, then do it.
I am sure it can at least be sent to the related government officials. And besides, I’ll support any government that works on genuinely improving the education. Anyway that does that is sincere enough to earn my support (be it PPP, PML-N or any other mainstream party). The pathetic standard of education is one of the biggest reasons why we are in the current mess, after all.
And frankly we do have the potential to match the best of them, at least in elementary, primary and middle grade education. Maybe even up till the college level. Beyond that, it will take a fair amount of time. But at least before the university level is a start enough. But it should all be standardized, in the real of federal government (who can facilitate it with the provincial governments), and more importantly, be equal for all schools.
I’m not saying the standard of education be equal, or even the facilities be equal in all institutions, but at least what is being taught should be. And in due time, also bring in the madrassas into the fold as well. From the very basic level and beyond.
