Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Very true and impressive.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Now that I think of it, reading Urdu might be a useful tool when it comes to learning it independently. It’s a lot easier to break down the rules and conventions of a language if you can read it. Conversation seems like a slower learning process, because you’re too busy figuring out how to reply or you just don’t have enough time. With reading you can take as much time as you want, same goes for writing. God knows how long it took me to put this post down.
That said teaching how to speak Urdu, much less read it, in a foreign country isn’t easy or simple by any measure. The way I learnt English at school was highly structured, I was exposed to it everyday, in almost every class and I still struggle with it. I can’t imagine how it is for people who learnt Urdu living out here. But then nobody expects them to be proficient at it, unlike what’s expected of us immigrants. Speaking Urdu with a foreign accent is considered adorable, unlike when you speak English with an accent.
I kinda agree with people who say Urdu is irrelevant out here in the West. It has no real value, unless of course you plan on moving back, or you just want that option to stay open.
As far as commenting on Pakistan’s internal affairs goes, it’s an important country, a country that receives a lot of Aid from the US. That’s enough of a justification for Americans to comment on anything Pakistan. That’s our tax dollar’s being spent on a country that does not seem to be getting better. The pride would suit us better if we stopped mooching of other people’s tax money. And it really doesn’t matter where or on whom the money is spent. Pakistan as a country is accepting it and that’s all that matters.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
I know quite a lot people who wish their parents had taught them their mothertongue. Mostly because they are habing difficulties in communication with relatives and because they miss a connection with their roots.
Personally I would have mind it at a later age if my parents had taught me very less to nothing about Pakistan and I could not communicate in any of it’s languages.
The people who are using the religion argument, saying that they want their kids to be good muslims only and not having to have to identify themselves with race and ethnicity but only deen. I have a few quedtions about that, just genuinely interested:
- What do you exactly mean with ‘good muslim’? Apart from teaching the 5 pillars of Islam and compassion for the needy, caring for others and other such universal traits?
Are you also going to teach them how to live according to the sunnah? Putting also emphasis on how it is important to dress a certain way, cover yourself, not mingle unnecessarily with the opposite gender etc?
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Saeed
Any language when taught as a subject will be taught with greater structure. Even English. I used to teach the both English and Reading. You have the colloquial English your parents teach you…and you learn A LOT from them. In a school, you’ll learn the grammar and mechanics and how to write formally for a research paper and how to write more casually for something like narrative story. But even if a person doesn’t attend school…can they still speak in English with other people? Yes, they can because they’ve picked it up and it will continue to develop along the way. Research shows that vocabulary is better developed and internalized when you’re exposed to it in authentic settings. Classrooms are not considered authentic settings…it refers more to situations like socializing, watching a movie, reading a novel, etc. My French teacher would often say that the best way to become fluent in a language is not thru a textbook because people don’t talk to each other like textbooks or news reporters…rather the best way to gain that fluency in French is by going to France or interacting with those fluent in it…watching a French movie…etc etc. So for you to think that you MUST be in a school to acquire conversational Urdu…that’s not necessarily so.
I don’t even remember the formally written stories in the Urdu workbooks my mom used. I remember the topics, but not so much the words. I remember the various exercises of alfaaz-jumlah and categorizing words into either male or female and breaking whole words apart into their individual Urdu letters…but they didn’t develop my speaking fluency as socializing in Urdu with family…or watching various programs…listening to lectures did. Reading/writing will require more structure and discipline.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Good point, Le.
Those who are so worried about struggling and assimilation and keep making the argument about deen…errrrrmmm…Deen is not only confined to learning classical Arabic so you can understand the Quran…it also includes following Rasool SAWS’s Sunnah…and the Quran tells us to follow the Messenger SAWS. And following his Sunnah will come into conflict the mainstream American culture and “assimilation” into it.
If your kids learn to speak Urdu fluently, they will only speak it with people of similar backgrounds. They will not go up to a gora and begin talking in Urdu. That said, it doesn’t hinder assimilation. But I don’t think the Sunnah can be isolated like this…I don’t think it’s meant to be followed in some situation and not others.
Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Ok, we get it. You are right. Everyone else is wrong. Those parents who choose not to teach their kids Urdu, either spoken,written or both are a blight to humanity and a disgrace to their brown skin color. Point made and duly noted.
Good lord, you people really know how to beat a dead horse. Ab maaf bhi kardo.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
The colloquial English you talk about, doesn’t just come from your parents. It is given to you by your peers at school, your teachers, by almost anyone you interact with. When living in a foreign country, your parents are your only source of colloquial Urdu, in a situation like this having reading and writing skill might help you out some.
When I wrote about reading being important I was drawing from my own experience of learning English at school back in Pakistan. Learning to read and write were the first steps. Watching movies or reading novels did not come until much later. But then I didn’t have parents who could speak the language with me at home.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Pretty sure you called fluency of a language silly.
Don’t care if you do just dont go back on your words
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
1) Does Spanish belong to the US? 
If the argument is that you shouldn’t speak a language if it doesn’t “belong” to the country you live in…then why bother learning to speak Spanish? If the answer is that well there are so many of them…well…then going by the above reasoning the Hispanics/Latinos should let go of Spanish and focus more on English. Why should we try to accommodate to them? Desis, too, make a sizable chunk of the US population.
2) Not sure why tarbiyat was defensively brought up. The Urdu proponents are not connecting the language to tarbiyat. Tarbiyat is a very broad category and it depends on things like how parents model and reinforce the values they want kids to have, disciplining kids, and other things. A poor tarbiyat can be given by parents who speak/teach Urdu and by those who don’t. The proponents are making the connection between language and cultural pride and identity and it’s importance in one’s development and confidence. If people are stretching it to include character in its entirety…(honesty, kindness, trustworthiness, etc)…that’s silly…because it’s a dramatic stretch.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
3) Wanting kids to be global people and disregarding race/culture. Okay…first of all…“global” refers to and includes “diversity” in all its forms from physical geography to cultures. The way I see it, a global person accepts diversity and understands that it impacts people’s lives in so many ways. How can we “disregard” race or culture? We make assumptions and assessments based on what we see…and this is a very natural and quick process. It’s kinda like reading something in front of you. You cannot stop your eyes from reading; your mind automatically processes the words. Similarly…when you see a person…you make guesses (based on features, dressing, accent, language) about where they are from, what views they may uphold, and you may even adjust your manner of talking to meet that person’s cultural needs. We are not blind to the color of the sky or of a flower, so how can we be blind to or “disregard” cultures and races? Disregarding culture and race can even hurt relationships. For example, if you go to a country where the social rules are different from yours, you may risk offending the inhabitants. Having a “regard” and “understanding” for cultural differences is important for developing “global” bonds and bridging gaps.
4) Proponents are not arguing that Urdu is the only language or that Pakistan is the only country in the world. Not sure how it got stretched to that, but again it’s a dramatic defensiveness. If the opponents want to emphasize appreciation of various languages and cultural diversity in the world …then how the heck does that take place if you deliberately choose not to let your culture/language flourish? You appreciate the diversity of other cultures because their diversity is MANIFESTED…it is allowed to flourish. If it wasn’t…then it you’d be looking at a cookie-cutter, homogenous world of sheeples. Our culture is also a part of the world’s diversity and other people can only appreciate it if we allow it to flourish and if we take constructive pride in it. Should we only appreciate it from “a-far” as if we’re looking at a distant planet through a telescope…because of the view that the language/culture only “belongs” to that distant planet? How is such thinking different from the ideology behind the treatment of Native Americans and other minority groups that were forced to completely abandon their language and ways because assimilation was given top priority. And yes, I know that nobody here is “forcing,” but I’m talking about the ideology.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
You believe its false advertising…you can believe what you wish but its still JUST an opinion of a stranger - irrelevant. Seempal.
You may not like sushi - I might like sushi. Doesn’t make sushi terrible - just your opinion of sushi terrible.
How would that matter to someone who actually likes it?
Love themselves? I am NOT a born and bred Pakistani…YOU are. Those who ARE need to stay close to the language and its fine they do. I am not.
There is a huge difference between you and me…we have completely different backgrounds. You cannot expect someone who isn’t close to Pakistani life to care as much as you do. If you do expect it, its unreasonable and you’re in for a disappointment.
The posters on this forum are not all carbon copies of you diwana and I hope you don’t understand they don’t need to be.
Jesus - some courage goes a long way.
Go and find posts that say what you think is being said. Come back and post when you find them. That way, it won’t seem like you’re making things up.
RV. I don’t think I’ll ever consider you correct on this matter. Why would I? I don’t know why its important for you to get someone else to agree with you who has their own ideas and opinions that aren’t subject to anyone else. Why would they be? Who questions them?
I have come to my own conclusions after considering what is important to ME. You should DEFINITELY teach your kids Urdu if you wish. However, what is important to me is NOT going to be important to you. That’s life and it isn’t always as we want it to be.
My kids can learn Urdu IF they wish. They will not be required to nor restricted from it. OH and even if they were…it wouldn’t be considered wrong because no one gets to make that judgement call besides…well…me.
If people judge them based on their Urdu then I gain two things from that experience:
a) less headache because that individual can be eliminated easily and I don’t live in a country where that would worry me much
b) the experience, strength, wisdom and understanding to never do that to someone else in any scenario (doesn’t have to be language related)
I don’t think that’s such a bad deal at all.
I will never understand people who are afraid of weaknesses and maybe that’s why I am not getting the fear here of not teaching kids Urdu or teaching them Urdu.
If you don’t care - stop commenting on my posts. You do care…actually quite a bit.
The funnayyy thing is - I don’t care that you care because you failed to understand the post.
I cannot fight an unarmed opponent.
Ha Ha
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
I believe I was pretty clear in my posts…all of these points have already been addressed.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
I don’t get why is it so hard for some of you to digest that some people want to raise their kids their way? If you want your kids to learn Urdu, more power to you.. But if someone doesn’t want it for their OWN children… Ap ko kia masla hai? 
11 pages and so many titanic sized posts for a discussion which will go nowhere. Let’s just accept that people will do what they deem appropriate for their own bachay. Even if you think their excuses are wrong or whatever.
P.S. Don’t kill me. Kthxbai.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
There’s beating a dead horse and doing so directly and then there are worse things like eating the flesh of the dead.
Anyhow, getting back to the topic…I openly apologize, Reha, if my tone came across as offensive/hurtful. you. It’s a subject I’ve always been more passionate and opinionated about.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
My parents were both great lovers of literature…both Indo/Pakistani and foreign. They had a shared love of poetry. In fact, my father wooed my mother with the writings of Khalil Gibran, Rumi and others. When my grandfather (nana) moved to the US in the early 80’s, he started an Urdu literary society in our city. And yet, I cannot read or write Urdu…you know why…because I was raised by a single mother who at times worked two jobs to put food on the table and a roof over our heads. She did not have the time or inclination to teach me to wrote and read a language that I did not need to function. You know what she did do though? She taught me to cook the best damn Hyderabadi food in the world…while she worked (sometimes the night shift), she would dictate over the phone to me and my sisters how to cook or finish the dishes she had started before leaving for work. Did she sit lovingly with Urdu workbooks and teach us “alif se anar bay se bakra”…no…but she did make sure that every single Eid we had shalwar kameezs’ that she sewed herself…even after working 12-14 hr shifts. She took us to the fledgling cultural associations she helped form where we participated in fancy dress competitions and did cultural dances. My parents taught us to play carrom board and regailed us with stories about partition, Hyderabad and the minimal time they spent in Pakistan prior to their marriage.
My Papa didn’t teach me to read or write Urdu either (nor Hindi, nor Telegu). But he did instill the love of learning in us. He taught us geography of India and Pakistan, about the ancient Indus civilizations. He also bent over backwards to teach us not only our religion, but others as well, so that we could hold our heads high as confident Muslims.
There are many, many other ways to form links and instill pride in culture and heritage. Language is not the most important nor the least important way. To each his own. Not one single person here has the right to cast judgement or show scorn towards someone whose values and beliefs or parenting philosophies differ from their own.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
The Hispanics would learn English faster if they could help it. However unlike desi immigrants, Hispanic immigrants move here with no prior knowledge of English. Our assimilation process starts way earlier, it begins back home. That’s just how things are and the average Pakistani immigrant makes more money than an average Hispanic immigrant for that very reason.
And there are plenty of Second generation Hispanics who can’t speak any Spanish. The recent immigrants speak it because they’re not proficient in English, unlike immigrants from Pakistan.
Gora sahab did the damage a long time ago and now we’re stuck with the language for good.
Besides it’s a personal choice, teaching your kid a second language, it’s not like anybody is telling you or me not to do.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Thank you. I am not offended or hurt RV.
What I don’t understand is the feeling I am getting of how this might hurt my children in the future. Not knowing Urdu? That by not being fluent in it, I will be doing them a great disservice and being a bad parent?
I simply do not see not knowing Urdu as a weakness.
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
The comment was not intended for you. My opinions are based on my experiences and observations and comparisons …which were not positive examples…and I’ve at times been on the receiving end. Hence, I see it as a disservice. However, it is your assumption that it makes one a bad parent…I don’t connect language to all dimensions of parenting or parenting/tarbiyat on the whole. I had even mentioned that poor tarbiyat can be done by those who do speak and support the inculcation of the native language.
Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
Diwana ke thread pe sab dewane ho gayae!
How did I do? 
Re: Sorry, I am born to a Pakistani but cannot read Urdu
hissy fitty vexation is certainly quite amuzing