Some ex-muslims telling "why I left Islam..??"

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Mr. Sultan Suri,

For women’s issue you should also ask from a muslim woman i.e. Madam Tasleema Nasreen

Tasleema Nasreen: “When I began to study the Koran, the holy book of Islam, I found many unreasonable ideas. The women in the Koran were treated as slaves. They are nothing but sexual objects.”

More Highlights:

"When I was young, I was forced to practice religion. I had to read the Koran in Arabic without knowing the meaning. I said to my mother several times: “I don’t have any interest in reading something I don’t understand. I want to know the meaning of the verses.” My mother said, “We don’t need to know the meaning. We should read because these are the verses written by God. If you read these, God will forgive you and send you to heaven.”

When I was 14 or 15 years old, I found the Bengali translation of the Koran, and I learned what God says in the verses. I was surprised to read wrong information about the solar system in the Koran – for example, that the sun is moving around the earth and the earth is not moving and standing still because of the support of the mountains.

The inequalities and injustices against women and the people of different faiths in the Koran made me angry. If any religion allows the persecution of the people of different faiths, if any religion keeps women in slavery and keeps people in ignorance then I cannot accept that religion. As an individual, I wanted to serve people irrespective of religions, race and gender. And instead of having irrational blind faith, I preferred to have a rational logical mind. In short, I became a secular humanist. To me humanity is the ultimate. "

To read full interview follow the following link:

Interview of Tasleema Nasreen with secular muslims organization

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A muslim, Syed Kamran Mirza, saying that islam is the worst religion - see following link;

Article by Syed Kamran Mirza

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basic bhaijaan, ok so Islam is the worst religion in the world and all the muslims are devil incarnates, so what? Sadly, there is not much that you can do. There are so many of us in this world. Tough luck for you buddy. :)

Secondly, meri jaan, rest assured that if there is someone known as a free-thinker in this world, its most certainly not you.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

Well! I was also a believer some years before. Now I do not believe in any religion. All religions are scientifically and logically inaccurate. All religions promote intolerance. Religious ppl lose their patience whenever they read or observe anything which is not in accordence with their faith. Religious ppl hate other ppl just because other ppl's faith is different from their's.

I do not like religion but I do not hate religious ppl just because they are the followers of some faith which is different from my idealogy. I only hate those ppl who hate others on this ground only. I can make religious ppl my friends also. Do you think that religious ppl would also like to make me their friend....???

Religious ppl often have to tell lies. Like you saying that after reading the post, you are feeling increase in your emaan.

I ask you to show me which portion of the original post was a "emaan afroze" sort of thing...???

If nothing "emaan afroze" sort of thing is contained in the original post then how it happens that you are feeling increase in your emaan....???

If original post is really an "emaan afroze" sort of thing, then why are you demanding from moderators to delete it...???

Are you not telling a lie when you say that "I am feeling increase in my emaan after reading the post....????"

And I know that it is impossible to eradicate islamic or any other religious idealogy/ faith from this world altogether. I am only the supporter of the formation of a group of "free thinkers" who could think about the social, cutural, national and international issues independent of any religious influence. Religious teachings are only suitable for those ppl who themself do not want to come out of their limited vision and view of this universe and for those ppl who are not able to "think" in an objective manner. And such ppl are and shall remain in majority in all parts of the world....I know it.

But those ppl who have the ability to "think" objectively and those whose vision and view of this universe is not limited or restricted to the boundaries of their respective religions.......they should try to influence the majority on the basis of their broader vision, in order to form a better human society whose level of self awareness should be better than before.

Islam is really un-scientific, like all other religions. Future is for science and is not for religion. The result of war between science and religion we have seen in Afghanistan. Religion had to surrender before science.

And you want to know my beliefs...??? I do not believe in any god or messenger. I did believe some years before but now not.
[/QUOTE]

App hum ko free mason lagteee hee.

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For those of us who do not have time to read 4 long posts, can you summarize the findings of what you are trying to say?

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Re: Some ex-muslims telling “why I left Islam..??”

So whats the big deal? there are many people who left Islam, I personally know a couple. But then there are quite a few who converted to Islam… In US alone from 20 to 33 percent muslims are converts. So whats your point.

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Basic Force you believe in science , the research of man about the the things Allah has created in the Universe. Science is not self existent. Even the Universe along with matter and time came into exsistence at one point. Allah is the will that existed before the universe and created the universe thereupon.
Man is flawed, look at anything man has made or more so assembled ( because even the elements used were created by Allah), A building or a car, making polution, upsetting the natural balance of the ecosystems. U are a man of logic look at the any of Allah's creation and see how harmoniously it coexists with other creations. From delicate workings of a cell to a abrupt black hole ripping away a star. His Power is singularly orchestrating every event and thing. Allah maintains the harmony and preserves the order.Even His smallest creation has such intricate designs and multiple systems in it. . Science is but a tool and a mercy from Allah. So Humanbeings can reflect, and realize their Lord and be grateful to Him.

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Iqra, one of the problems with your logic is if it were not for science you won't be using big words like car, ecosystem, cell , blackhole etc on a computer connected to internet. In fact we won't even know whether you existed or not.(not that it woudl matter)

There is nothing wrong in believing that there is a God since forever who created everything in this universe. Problem is when one considers himself superior as if mere belief like above is a big achievement and everyone else who talks about science is of inferior intellect.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Wane: *
basic bhaijaan, ok so Islam is the worst religion in the world and all the muslims are devil incarnates, so what? Sadly, there is not much that you can do. There are so many of us in this world. Tough luck for you buddy. :)
[/QUOTE]

I do not say that all muslims are worst. Most of the muslims are moderate muslims and such muslims are in majority. These meoderate muslims have world's most finest ethics. Such muslims are most honourable for me than any other nation of this world mainly due to their good moral ethics. However, the fundamentalist muslims are really the worst thing in this world. They insist on the implementation of 1500 years old out-dated social and science system even in this information age. You need not be happy because such fundamentalists are not really so many in this world. These can be eliminated. A portion of them already has been eliminated in Afghanistan.

[QUOTE]
Secondly, meri jaan, rest assured that if there is someone known as a free-thinker in this world, its most certainly not you.
[/QUOTE]

You religious ppl do have certain knowledge of every thing that you in fact do not know.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqraa_k: *
Basic Force you believe in science , the research of man about the the things Allah has created in the Universe. Science is not self existent. Even the Universe along with matter and time came into exsistence at one point. Allah is the will that existed before the universe and created the universe thereupon.
Man is flawed, look at anything man has made or more so assembled ( because even the elements used were created by Allah), A building or a car, making polution, upsetting the natural balance of the ecosystems. U are a man of logic look at the any of Allah's creation and see how harmoniously it coexists with other creations. From delicate workings of a cell to a abrupt black hole ripping away a star. His Power is singularly orchestrating every event and thing. Allah maintains the harmony and preserves the order.Even His smallest creation has such intricate designs and multiple systems in it. . Science is but a tool and a mercy from Allah. So Humanbeings can reflect, and realize their Lord and be grateful to Him.
[/QUOTE]

Science says that;

Matter/ energy can neither be created nor can be destroyed.

Universe is made up of matter/ energy; so it is not a "created" thing. No god has created this universe according to science.

Ok universe appears to be very much balanced. But think over the cruel and merciless food chain of this world. The divine who may have designed such a food system/ chain dose not seem to be merciful.

Man made products are also very much balanced and accurate and durable etc.

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I know this Ali Sina...This is the guy that runs faith freedom...

Anyways basic_force, if you have been dealt a hand in Pascal's wager, by choosing science you obviously have chosen to be dealt the losing hand...

OK, since you believe in science so much, I wish for you to take a deep look at yourself and your thinking...If everything just came about with a big bang, then atoms combined, then formed into the primordial ooze, then formed into complex carbon and then from an unidentifiable amount of time into us, then how do you explain your emotions?

When our brains were formed, logically speaking, we should be no more different than a tree or a germ...Even animals have emotions, so how does science explain emotions?

Love, anger, hate, joy, sadness, grief, loss, all humans have these traits, does science explain somewhere where they came from? Or did they just come in when our brains developed...

Now you might discard emotions as having no basis in science or evolution, but remember, it is these emotions that drive us to do things...These emotions drove you and this Ali Sina guy to reject the truth and hate religion...

Does science explain the meaning of emotions? Or did God place these emotions in our heart to test us?

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Friend your knowledge of sience is outdated by… lets say half a century.

For your kind information there is another thing in this univerese called “Anti-matter” and this constitute to more then 90% of the universe and it is still mostly unknown.

And by the reaction of matter and antimatter energy/matter can be created or destroyed.

the ^^ logic is totally worthless :nook:

Present somthing more solid.

About all those who left Islam, may Allah give them and us guidence. Ameen

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Even animals have emotions, so how does science explain emotions?

[/QUOTE]

Neither religion explains it. Just saying oh God created it , is not an exlaination. It is a claim or a belief. Which may or may not be true but even if it is true religion does not explain how God created these emotions.

Most scientists will concede that after certain level there are unexplainable phenomenon in nature. science does not have explaination for it yet. May be one day it will have because science is not frozen in time like God's words once said and done with it.

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bhas say zyada, I cant describe this thread any better… :rolleyes:

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basicforce, i get the impression you havent met many nice muslims

i hope you do, your missing out on alot

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(
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChannMahi: *
Iqra, one of the problems with your logic is if it were not for science you won't be using big words like car, ecosystem, cell , blackhole etc on a computer connected to internet. In fact we won't even know whether you existed or not.(not that it woudl matter))
[/QUOTE]

I applaud science, it is a tool and a mercy from Allah. So Humanbeings can reflect, and realize their Lord and be grateful to Him. ChannMahi if it were not for the impulses to your brain you would not comprehend the " big words" u attribute to science. We are all created with senses,(eyes, ears, etc) thus have perception and given a will, to live our lives.You could have been anything, a fly for example, you would be more concerned with finding food and reproducing; than worrying over if my exsistence matters.

[QUOTE]
nothing wrong in believing that there is a God since forever who created everything in this universe. Problem is when one considers himself superior as if mere belief like above is a big achievement and everyone else who talks about science is of inferior intellect.
[/QUOTE]

On the contrary to understand science takes reason and intellect. (For science is a branch of knowledge involving systemized observation of and experimentation of phenomena). Science makes it easy to understand Allah is invisible and everything Allah has created reveals his exsistence and attributes.

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In reference to>quote posted by basic_force:

There is nothing more to say other than
modern physics has proved by experiments, observations and calculations that the universe had a beginning and that it was created out of nothing with a big explosion "The Big Bang"
To further elaborate
American astrophysicist Hugh Ross wrote," By definition, time is that dimension in which cause-and-effect phenomena take place. No time, no cause and effect. If time's beginning is concurrent with the beginning of the universe, as the space-time theorem says, then the cause of the universe must be some entity operating in a time dimension completely independent of and pre-existent to the time dimension of the cosmos. …It tells us that the Creator is transcendent, operating beyond the dimensional limits of the universe. It tells us that God is not the universe itself, nor is God contained within the universe.1

This is a scientist's opinion based on his reseach.

If you claim to be avid believer in science, so be a true scientist and don't manipulate the facts to make a baseless argument as u did>

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

Science says that;

Matter/ energy can neither be created nor can be destroyed.

Universe is made up of matter/ energy; so it is not a "created" thing. No god has created this universe according to science.

Ok universe appears to be very much balanced. But think over the cruel and merciless food chain of this world. The divine who may have designed such a food system/ chain dose not seem to be merciful.

Man made products are also very much balanced and accurate and durable etc.
[/QUOTE]

  • Hugh Ross, The Creator and the Cosmos: How Greatest Scientific Discoveries of The Century Reveal God, Colorado: NavPress, revised edition, 1995, p. 76 *
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And my dear friend, you happen to have updated but incomplete knowledge.

I said matter/energy can neither be created nor can be destroyed. I have not used the word “matter” only.

“Matter” and “anti matter” when come closer, the matter is eliminated and fully transformed into energy. This method only explains destruction of matter only. Energy cannot be eliminated in this way. ** Also note that this method only allows destruction and of matter only. Even this method do not allow “creation”.**

If you had some understanding of logic, then you would not have concluded that I am unaware about anti-matter Just because I have not talked about it in this forum.

39

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqraa_k: *
In reference to>quote posted by basic_force:

There is nothing more to say other than
modern physics has proved by experiments, observations and calculations that the universe had a beginning and that it was created out of nothing with a big explosion "The Big Bang"
To further elaborate
American astrophysicist Hugh Ross wrote," By definition, time is that dimension in which cause-and-effect phenomena take place. No time, no cause and effect. If time's beginning is concurrent with the beginning of the universe, as the space-time theorem says, then the cause of the universe must be some entity operating in a time dimension completely independent of and pre-existent to the time dimension of the cosmos. Â…It tells us that the Creator is transcendent, operating beyond the dimensional limits of the universe. It tells us that God is not the universe itself, nor is God contained within the universe.1

This is a scientist's opinion based on his reseach.

If you claim to be avid believer in science, so be a true scientist and don't manipulate the facts to make a baseless argument as u did>

  • Hugh Ross, The Creator and the Cosmos: How Greatest Scientific Discoveries of The Century Reveal God, Colorado: NavPress, revised edition, 1995, p. 76 * [/QUOTE]

How much great scientist he is who postulates "the universe had a beginning and that it was created out of nothing with a big explosion "The Big Bang"

Are you not able to see contradiction in "out of nothing" and "out of big bang".....??????

Was "big bang" a nothing.......?????

"big bang" was a huge mass of immense matter/energy.

So "big bang" is not the begining of universe. It was only a stage in this material universe.

American astrophysicist Hugh Ross wrote," By definition, time is that dimension in which cause-and-effect phenomena take place. No time, no cause and effect. If time's beginning is concurrent with the beginning of the universe, as the space-time theorem says, then the cause of the universe must be some entity operating in a time dimension completely independent of and pre-existent to the time dimension of the cosmos. Â…It tells us that the Creator is transcendent, operating beyond the dimensional limits of the universe. It tells us that God is not the universe itself, nor is God contained within the universe.1

This is a scientist's opinion based on his reseach.

If you claim to be avid believer in science, so be a true scientist and don't manipulate the facts to make a baseless argument as u did

Note that this scientist's opinion is not based on his research but is based on the "conditional assumption" that if time's beginning is concurrent with the beginning of universe.....

And the beginning of the universe is not proven because "big bang" was not the beginning of the universe. It was only a stage in the universe.

This "great" scientist's assumption is un-proven so his conclusion of transcandental god is also un-proven.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

How much great scientist he is who postulates "the universe had a beginning and that it was created out of nothing with a big explosion "The Big Bang"
[Quote]

A scientist? u mean "scientists"; Let me elaborate it for u "The Big Bang",or that at some time, all the matter in the universe was compacted in a single point-mass that had "zero volume" because of its immense gravitational force. Our universe came into being as the result of this explosion of this point-mass that had zero volume. "Zero volume" means saying nothing. The Universe came from nothing, therefore had a beginning, and is expanding.

The Big Bang took place with the explosion of the point which contained all the matter/energy of the universe and its dispersion into space in all directions in terrifying speeds, that is why it's called an Explosion. This 'explosion' resulted into a great balance containing stars, sun, earth, galaxies and all other heavenly bodies. Along with the universal laws or the 'laws of physics', which are constant. All these indicate that a perfect order came after the Big Bang.

The laws of physics that emerged together with the Big Bang have not changed at all in 15 billion years. And these laws stand on calculations so exact that even a millimetre's variation from their current values can result in the destruction of the whole universe as we know.

"If at the time the pattern of expansion was already firmly established, the expansion rate had differed from its actual value by more than one in a billion billion, it would have been sufficient to throw the delicate balance out. The big bang was not, evidently, any old bang, but an explosion of exquisitely arranged magnitude."(Sir Fred Hoyle a world renowned astronomer,)

Simply if the rate of expansion was faster it would be to fast to form all heavenly bodies. or if slower nothing would come into exsistence.