Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

[goodname]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

Well, that' somewhat of a false distinction, as many of the so called ragtag media outlets are Western.

You are the one making a "false distinction" here. That there is diversity in Western media does not negate my point that people in general find Western media more reliable than the media elsewhere.

Nonsense. No one suggested some wild eyed secret organization is behind the unthinking support of Israeli policies. It's Israel and their very real lobbies. If you can't respond to that in a rational way, you'd please refrain from false analogies.

Second, I didn't use the word fact. I suggested it is implausible, to a an absurd extent, to think otherwise. But it *is *as close to an empirical observation you will get. Naturally this is my opinion. Evidence to the contrary is always welcome.

First, you did, in fact, use the word fact. Second, the US does not accept the official Israeli position that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, opposes settlement activities by Israel in East Jerusalem and West Bank, and advocates for peace settlement between Palestinians and Israelis. If Americans were so in thrall with Israel or any lobbies, they would just blindly accept the status quo. Moreover, what is nonsensical is to see "Zionist propaganda" in or to expect a newspaper to mention the opinion of people who perceive the US as driven by "Israeli policy and special interest groups" in the article under discussion.

[picoico]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

@goodname

You are the one making a “false distinction” here. That there is diversity in Western media does not negate my point that people in general find Western media more reliable than the media elsewhere.

I think they’re more well funded. I think you’ll find more diversity in opinions, and subject matter. I certainly wouldn’t deride it over, say, state run media of (read: mouthpieces) various countries. It’s certainly professional. But,I just don’t hear of people in other nations rushing to, say, AP or NYT to get their local news.

First, you did, in fact, use the word fact.

Hahaha…and here I was typing that with glee…I had actually performed an edit removing the last bit out and going on about the fact that mere mention of Israel got standing ovations across party lines in the last state of the union and how bizarre that sight was. Oh well…lost edit, lost opportunity to gloat.

Second, the US does not accept the official Israeli position that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel

Official, unofficial whatever…what is the intent and understood between American and Israeli leaders?

Abbas slams Obama for saying Jerusalem to stay Israel’s undivided capital - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

opposes settlement activities by Israel in East Jerusalem and West Bank, and advocates for peace settlement between Palestinians and Israelis.

Fair enough, though one can question in what manner in what manner? They oppose Iran getting nukes. Yes. We all know how. But in what way do they oppose the building of settlement? But that’s besides the point. Israeli policy is itself fluid on the matter…by far and wide, America’s position is the Israeli one.

If Americans were so in thrall with Israel or any lobbies, they would just blindly accept the status quo.

Pedantic. Pointing out policy variations is good enough to negate mathematical notions of equality. But it’s perhaps better to question the origins and drivers of America’s policy in the region, other than lobbyists and the Christian right.

Moreover, what is nonsensical is to see “Zionist propaganda” in or to expect a newspaper to mention the opinion of people who perceive the US as driven by “Israeli policy and special interest groups” in the article under discussion.

So they instead print the “findings” of third world officials from a nation ruled by a tin pot dictatorship, which is a proxy for American interests in the region, which is in turn dead set on containment if not actually finding pretense to invade Iran. Fine, that may be more commentary than simple reporting. But that’s a question of prose, not facts. I’m sorry, but after the second Gulf War, these connections are relevant, and to not put the alleged incident into context is simply sloppy.

[goodname]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

@picoico

I think they’re more well funded. I think you’ll find more diversity in opinions, and subject matter. I certainly wouldn’t deride it over, say, state run media of (read: mouthpieces) various countries. It’s certainly professional. But,I just don’t hear of people in other nations rushing to, say, AP or NYT to get their local news.

Yes, agreed Western media is quite professional. For local news, people do usually have to turn to local news sources because very often an international media outlet like the NYT or CNN would likely not be reporting what’s happening in their neck of the wood.

Hahaha…and here I was typing that with glee…I had actually performed an edit removing the last bit out and going on about the fact that mere mention of Israel got standing ovations across party lines in the last state of the union and how bizarre that sight was. Oh well…lost edit, lost opportunity to gloat.

Interesting, but this stream of consciousness is not that relevant to what you said earlier.

Official, unofficial whatever…what is the intent and understood between American and Israeli leaders?

Abbas slams Obama for saying Jerusalem to stay Israel’s undivided capital - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

The position of successive American administrations has been to not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The same holds true for Obama administration.

Fair enough, though one can question in what manner in what manner? They oppose Iran getting nukes. Yes. We all know how. But in what way do they oppose the building of settlement? But that’s besides the point. Israeli policy is itself fluid on the matter…by far and wide, America’s position is the Israeli one.

On several major issues, as I have noted already, positions differ; the American position is *not *the Israeli one.

Pedantic. Pointing out policy variations is good enough to negate mathematical notions of equality. But it’s perhaps better to question the origins and drivers of America’s policy in the region, other than lobbyists and the Christian right.

The point remains that the alleged role of Israel or any ‘Zionists’ as drivers of American policy is, at best, largely exaggerated.

So they instead print the “findings” of third world officials from a nation ruled by a tin pot dictatorship, which is a proxy for American interests in the region, which is in turn dead set on containment if not actually finding pretense to invade Iran. Fine, that may be more commentary than simple reporting. But that’s a question of prose, not facts. I’m sorry, but after the second Gulf War, these connections are relevant, and to not put the alleged incident into context is simply sloppy.

There is no appetite in the US for any invasion of Iran. Yes, people can make their own connections depending on their perspectives and viewpoints but what is not very judicious, in my opinion, is to expect a newspaper to accommodate those viewpoints while reporting a story.

[rommel]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

You are the one making a "That there is diversity in Western media does not negate my point that people in general find Western media more reliable than the media elsewhere.

are you for real, western media is like the US government corrupt to the core.

people are now going to the previously underground wikileaks for the news that's how much people trust your "diverse western media"

Your defense of United states foreign policy has no credibility whatsoever.

Iraq allegedly broke 2 UN resolutions net result = it was bombed to the frikkin stone age.

Israel breaks 65 UN resolutions net result = it gets $3.1 billion dollars every year in US weapons and military hardware

that is US policy in a nutshell hypocritical and without a doubt proves US is deadly enemy to the muslims.

[picoico]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

[quote]

The position of successive American administrations has been to not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The same holds true for Obama administration.

[/quote]

You clearly overstate the case. The link is sufficient to cast doubt on the significance of the "official" position. Again, if we wish to be pedantic, then okay, this is a major divergence in a single "policy" point. Again, I'm not so concerned with mathematical notions of Equality. Yet I can still say the foreign policy is driven by Israeli interests. Again, aside from Israeli lobbies and right wing Christians, what is the basis for American policy in the region?

[goodname]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

@rommel, No there is NO animosity with Muslims.

@picoico

You clearly overstate the case. The link is sufficient to cast doubt on the significance of the "official" position. Again, if we wish to be pedantic, then okay, this is a major divergence in a single "policy" point. Again, I'm not so concerned with mathematical notions of Equality. Yet I can still say the foreign policy is driven by Israeli interests. Again, aside from Israeli lobbies and right wing Christians, what is the basis for American policy in the region?

^ Again, you are overstating the case. Again, I would like to humbly state that American foreign policy is* not driven by Israeli interests. *As for your question, basically the same factors, in no particular order, that drive policy elsewhere: American values, concerns of and for American people, alliances with other states, history, right as well as left wing Americans and think tanks, leanings/doctrines of American presidents, influence of the State department and the Secretary of State...

[picoico]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

@goodname

^ Again, you are overstating the case. Again, I would like to humbly state that American foreign policy is* not driven by Israeli interests. *As for your question, basically the same factors, in no particular order, that drive policy elsewhere: American values, concerns of and for American people, alliances with other states, history, right as well as left wing Americans and think tanks, leanings/doctrines of American presidents, influence of the State department and the Secretary of State...

Generic and ats odd with reality, imho. Methinks this dicussion has taken it's course...agree to disagree...

[goodname]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

Generic and ats odd with reality, imho. Methinks this dicussion has taken it's course...agree to disagree...

It's not in my humble opinion. However, yes discussion seems to have run its course, and agree to diagree..

[rommel]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

@goodname

@rommel, No there is NO animosity with Muslims.

Lebanon attacked
Libya bombed
Somalia attacked
Iraq 88,500 tons of bombs dropped on the heads of iraq people 1 million children killed from US sponsored sanctions another 1 million people killed in both gulf wars.

Afghanistan bombed and occupied

No animosity you say. i Say BS!!!!

[khoji]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

NY Times is a mouthpiece of Zioinists. It was at the forefront of concocting lies about Iraq’s WMDs. And after they succeeded in gettig rid of Israel’s enemy in Iraq (Saddam), NY Times just came up with a ‘sorry’ for all its lies.
Remember that this newspaper had to apoligize only because the truth was clearly evident and there was no way it could hide the truth. But in other cases, like this lie of seizing Iranian ships, things are not as easily evident. That’s why Zionists in NY Times can get away with their lies for the sake of occupier regime in the Middle East.

NY Times Apology Feels Hollow

[TABLE=“width: 100%, align: center”]

Published on Monday, May 31, 2004 by the Toronto Star

N.Y. Times Apology Feels Hollow

by Megan Boler

The New York Times has publicly acknowledged errors in its reporting on Iraq. Less an apology and more an attempt to cover journalistic humiliation, the editors confess: “Looking back, we wish we had been more aggressive in re-examining the claims as new evidence emerged � or failed to emerge.”

While one wants to celebrate the historically momentous occasion of the “newspaper of record” admitting its lack of rigor and careful scrutiny of sources, for many this “apology” feels empty and hollow. Too little, too late. Too many people dead. Too many hungry. Too many orphans and too many mass graves. Too much ink wasted and airtime purchased to ensure the Bush administration’s horrific and never justified invasion of Iraq.

[khoji]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

Guys, continue to get such Zionist-friendly stories from American media. Americans are in total control of Israeli lobbyists. No one dares say anything against them. Not even CENTCOM!
Look at how people mocked, ridiculed and fleeced John and Walt for saying openly that America is controlled by an Israeli lobby which makes America follow a foreign policy in Israel’s interests instead of America’s.

But good thing is that more and more Americans are coming out of hiding. They are acknowledging the truth John and Walt had said.

The mainstreaming of Walt and Mearsheimer - Salon.com

(crux of their argument)
After describing the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the United States provides to Israel, we argued that his support could not be fully explained on either strategic or moral grounds Instead, it was due largely to the political power of the Israel lobby, a loose coalition of individuals and groups that seeks to influence American foreign policy in ways that will benefit Israel . . . We suggested that these policies were not in the U.S. national interest and were in fact harmful to Israel’s long-term interests as well.

[Pathan_Bhai]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

Go back May 2011. The war monger PM of Israel Netanyahu addresses the US congress and during his one hour speech gets 29 standing ovations along with countless mini applause from the cheerleaders sitting in the US congress. Guess who owns who!

[sanjsingh]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

But in other cases, like this lie of seizing Iranian ships, things are not as easily evident. That’s why Zionists in NY Times can get away with their lies for the sake of occupier regime in the Middle East.

Al-Jazeera also reported this story quoting the Yemeni defence ministry does that mean they are also Zionists maybe they are just wanted to know your opinion

Intercepted ship ‘carried weapons from Iran’ - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

[khoji]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

Gulf Arabs are in cohorts with Israelis when the issue is against Iran. There are many obvious examples of it.

But it is interesting that you are questioning Iran's involvement in Yemen when there are many more proven cases of Americans and their middle eastern friends openly supporting rebellions and suppressing popular uprisings all over the middle east.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

So the Sunni states hatred of Iran is so great they would rather ally themselves with Israel than Iran. Your second point is valid but I had already made a comment about that earlier, here I repeat it.

[QUOTE]
This is a problem with politicians worldwide, they support rebellion in the nations of their enemies but brutally quell them at home. The leaders of the US, Iran, Saudi, Pakistan and India are all adept at this game. It is foolish of us to only criticize those we do not approve of but not those who we support.
[/QUOTE]

[khoji]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

@sanjsingh

So the Sunni states hatred of Iran is so great they would rather ally themselves with Israel than Iran.

I think they LIKE to make it a Sunni Shia issue, when actually there are other reasons. There are political reasons as well as historic reasons.

I don't want to get into details of this since this is not the topic here. You quoted an Arab source repeating the NYT "story", and I don't understand why you had to do it if you already knew why this Arabs source would repeat it.

[sanjsingh]

Re: Seized Chinese Weapons Raise Concerns on Iran

[QUOTE]
You quoted an Arab source repeating the NYT "story", and I don't understand why you had to do it if you already knew why this Arabs source would repeat it.

[/QUOTE]

I didn't know, I thought Al-Jazeera would be seen as an independent news source, but I now realise it may just be a mouth piece for Arab agenda.