Searching for a conspiracy/ Iraq blasts (MERGED)

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*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"until the war there was never any history in Iraq of sectarian-based attacks. Although Saddam's regime was dominated by Sunni's and Christians he brutally put down any opponents to him, be they Sunni or Shia, or Arab or Kurd"

Yeah, isn't oppression great?

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yes i agree. This is idiotic.

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Yes, all over the world Muslim on Muslim violence is viewed as someone elses fault.

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dont pretend to speak on our behalf. What fuels sectarian violence if not "You did this, we'll do that"? Inconsistent of you to think that we would be the ones killing each other and also think that we absolve each other of the blame.

** Simple question, who set off the bomb? **

we dont know.

Who pulls the trigger?

we dont know.

** Who plans the attacks?**

we dont know.

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Start there. No elaborate conspiracy theories to make yourself feel better.

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at the moment, all we have are theories. You have yours, we have ours. im sure these people will condemn al-qaida if al-qaida accepts blame.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
dont pretend to speak on our behalf. What fuels sectarian violence if not "You did this, we'll do that"? Inconsistent of you to think that we would be the ones killing each other and also think that we absolve each other of the blame.
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You ARE speaking on your behalf. WA forum is chock full of blame displacement or toally ignores Muslim on Muslim violence. That's what makes your theories impertinent from an impartial point of view.

"Simple question, who set off the bomb?

we dont know.

Who pulls the trigger?

we dont know.

Who plans the attacks?

we dont know."

It ain't the Swedes. Nor the Icelanders. Probably not Equadorans. Sometimes the simplest explainations are the best. Occams Razor.

I don't care if it is AlQaedda, Baathists, or anybody with a bomb and a grudge. There is a pattern here.

Let's take the most likely conspiracy theory available, that the US invaded Iraq for the oil. But to get the oil moving, and to refurbish the oil fields, there must be investments in the oil fileds for 10 years or more, and a hundred Billion or so in investment to get the oil flowing. For that to happen, there must be stability, and a responsible government in Iraq. I don't care who he worships, just a reasonably reliable steward of that wealth, and someone who is not hell bent on dominating the region with weapons of mass destruction. Pretty simple requirements. Never mind the democracy stuff, just don't abuse your people and start wars. Our expectations are really quite low.

Somehow a civil war is pretty inconsistant with the plan above. A civil war would disrupt that plan eh? And shed a lot of blood in the mean time. and if you can shed a lot of blood and blame the Americans, then who wins? Not so hard to figure out.

Its amazing how these american right wingers always belive they are whiter than white.

they think they are angels they should just take a peak at there history and see how bloodthirsty there governments over time have been.

Blaiming this invisible al kaida for everything from bombs to holes in ur pants just ain't washing with people outside the states!

WMDs remeber that one

the intelligence of the Americans is unreliable

amerikkans belives its al kaida that committed bombings muslims think amerikkkans commited bombings

don't trust the amerikkans at all they need to get out and mind there own business they cause chaos where ever they land!

Bush said...

" We are coming ...and we are coming to bring u freedom"

He is sticking to his words , he has freed their souls.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
It ain't the Swedes. Nor the Icelanders. Probably not Equadorans. Sometimes the simplest explainations are the best. Occams Razor.

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To do justice to Mr Occam, his razor dictates that the explanation with the least assumptions is most likely to be the correct one.

We're all operating on assumption here. Everything we say is an assumption. The razor pretty much knocks us all down.

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Let's take the most likely conspiracy theory available, that the US invaded Iraq for the oil. But to get the oil moving, and to refurbish the oil fields, there must be investments in the oil fileds for 10 years or more, and a hundred Billion or so in investment to get the oil flowing. For that to happen, there must be stability, and a responsible government in Iraq. I don't care who he worships, just a reasonably reliable steward of that wealth, and someone who is not hell bent on dominating the region with weapons of mass destruction. Pretty simple requirements. Never mind the democracy stuff, just don't abuse your people and start wars. Our expectations are really quite low.

Somehow a civil war is pretty inconsistant with the plan above. A civil war would disrupt that plan eh? And shed a lot of blood in the mean time. and if you can shed a lot of blood and blame the Americans, then who wins? Not so hard to figure out.
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Just to throw a monkeywrench into the clockwork of your argument, you forget the fact that if the Americans dont have an excuse to enforce something to the contrary, any representative government will see the Shias taking power. Since any shia representative, if representative of his constituency would pay an enormous amount of attention to Seestani, and thus, the country would become for all practical matters a Shia Muslim country.

Shia clerics have close spiritual ties within themselves, and rarely issue conflicting fatawa. I am a shia, and I know this because I researched this as part of my religious beliefs irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Thus, Iraq in policy and in spirit would become closer to Iran, should a representative government come in power.

I believe America wouldnt want that, and I can dig up a number of high ranking spokemen of the American government saying things to that effect.

Now if it is indeed all about oil or about Bush's belief in what the world should be and how he should act in consequence of those beliefs, there is no way either of these things would be safe under an Iran-like Iraq.

A letter purporting to come from al-Qaeda denied on Wednesday any role in anti-Shia explosions in Iraq that killed scores of people.

Well it must be the Iranian’s then, after all the American’s keep saying they have links with the supposedly Shia-hating Al Qaida, and they say they have arrested five Iranian nationals in connection with these bombings?

But who believes the American occupiers - certainly not the Shias of Iraq, who actually are blaming them..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"Simple question, who set off the bomb?

we dont know.

Who pulls the trigger?

we dont know.

Who plans the attacks?

we dont know."

It ain't the Swedes. Nor the Icelanders. Probably not Equadorans. Sometimes the simplest explainations are the best. Occams Razor.

I don't care if it is AlQaedda, Baathists, or anybody with a bomb and a grudge. There is a pattern here.

Let's take the most likely conspiracy theory available, that the US invaded Iraq for the oil. But to get the oil moving, and to refurbish the oil fields, there must be investments in the oil fileds for 10 years or more, and a hundred Billion or so in investment to get the oil flowing. For that to happen, there must be stability, and a responsible government in Iraq. I don't care who he worships, just a reasonably reliable steward of that wealth, and someone who is not hell bent on dominating the region with weapons of mass destruction. Pretty simple requirements. Never mind the democracy stuff, just don't abuse your people and start wars. **Our expectations are really quite low.

Somehow a civil war is pretty inconsistant with the plan above. A civil war would disrupt that plan eh?** And shed a lot of blood in the mean time. and if you can shed a lot of blood and blame the Americans, then who wins? Not so hard to figure out.
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The expectations might have been low but the means to meet those expectations have certainly not been low...Almost 3 million dead and rising...What makes you think that the occupiers wouldn't be above employing even more dastardly acts to meet their expectations?

Although they have been refering to shias as infidels…

^^Sorry, no offence intended.

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*Originally posted by the real AK47: *
^^Sorry, no offence intended.
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Youre speaking as if you wrote that letter

lol it’s okay :slight_smile:

I was just mentioning it coz it’s so :mudhosh: situation … Al-Quida says they didn’t do it (seems like the first time they are denying involvement in attacks) yet they will be referrring to shias as infidels. Isn’t their war against infidels anyway.

*sighhh

Yeh duniya… zaalim duniya…

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*Originally posted by little human: *

Although they have been refering to shias as infidels........
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Yes, but the American's still claim that Shia Iran has links to Al Qaida, and they have arrested Iranian nationals in relation to the bombings in Iraq. While all the time the Iraqi Shias blame the American's. I don't know how American's explain these glaring contradictions?

*Today a great misfortune has happened and is part of the US conspiracy to ignite the fire of sedition between the Muslims in Iraq. The US forces today perpetrated a massacre to kill the innocent Shias in their polytheist city of Karbala and in Baghdad. *

I don't know who wrote that Al Qaida letter but someone should maybe have advised him that innocent Shias were massacred in Quetta as well. Considering Osama has been using the border areas as his staging ground his organisation could at least have expressed some regret. or maybe they only consider arab lives as being important.

The Amerikkan version of events of bombings in iraq are dubious to say the least!

Jordanian top operative suspected of suicide attacks in Iraq was killed “some time ago”

According to the Amerikkans the cheif suspect behind bombings has one leg and said by others to be already killed many months ago!

Ravage,

"Since any shia representative, if representative of his constituency would pay an enormous amount of attention to Seestani, and thus, the country would become for all practical matters a Shia Muslim country."

I think everyone knew the composition of an Iraqi government well before the war. Sistani looks far more like the Iranian Reformers than the hardliners. Ironically Sistani has all of the cards right now because the Sunnis are so beset with fighting. That would make the Shias even stronger, perhaps too strong. The real concern is that the governement will not be proportionately representative, and that Sunnis will choose conflict rather than working out a political compromise.

I cannot ignore the other attacks, now long forgotten, on the UN, the Red Cross, Iraqi police stations, (and indeed around the world). Yet, Shia's insited on Iraqi protection of the shrines themselves, and would not let a US soldier near the shrines. So the claim that they were not protected sounds a little hollow. And for the conspiracy theorists, the rise of Shai Militia, and sectarian violence in no way advances US interests, and that is indeed the point of the razor. Who benefits from this chaos? The only ones who benefit from these acts are those who want the US to fail, no matter what the cost in Iraqi lives.

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And for the conspiracy theorists, the rise of Shai Militia, and sectarian violence in no way advances US interests, and that is indeed the point of the razor. Who benefits from this chaos? The only ones who benefit from these acts are those who want the US to fail, no matter what the cost in Iraqi lives.
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You're entitled to your opinion. But when you state your opinion as is, and add Occam Sahab to it, it shrouds your opinion in the garb of logical derivative.

The question all boils down to "Who benefits from the chaos". It is your opinion that it is those who wish the US to fail, no matter what the cost in Iraqi lives. The counter opinion is that it is those who wish the US to suceed, no matter what the cost in Iraqi lives.

Within this thread, there have been a number of hypothesis, backed up with as much fact, as many assumptions as yours. Kindly do not rest in the certainty of the razor, because you're not appyling it correctly.

Meanwhile, I am willing to wait it out until truth comes forward, and the accusations stop flying in my head, and rest on one perpetrator.

Re: searching for a conspiracy..

i agree with you…

heres a conspiracy theory for you, one of the attackers with a suicide belt on was caught alive, as the bomb failed to trigger. he was the 'farsi speaker' who was being beaten by angry crowds shown on cnn, until medics took him away to the hospital half dead. later some more farsi speakers were arrested in connection with the attack.

i dunno if you've have heard of the anti-revolution org. called MKO ( mujahideen kalq). The MKO was pretty active in killing innocnt shias before and during the revolution. After the iranian revolution came about, the members were pursued so they all went in to hiding, a majority fled to Iraq where they had alot of support from saddam's baathist regime.

when the americans took over, Iran demanded america to hand over the members of the org., but i dont believe the dmands were met. however, their weapons were taken from them (one of the conditions to not handing them over) and they were taken off from US list of terrorist org. (america held them responsible for an attack on US diplomats/ officials tht occured in iran before the rev.)

so, lets see... if the MKO was behind the attack, firstly how'd they get the weapons? secondly, was the dead al-qaeda guy used as a cover up and to stir sect. violence? finally, do you think americans didn't know what the mko were planning, considereing what they got up to in the past?

..and theres me thinking it was an al queda guy who died 2 mnths ago.