Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

king faisal,
The point of the thread is that army wants to run Pakistan directly or indirectly, because they want to keep firm grip on Pakistan's economy, and want to keep filling their pockets through fauji financial companies, stifling all competition from people of Pakistan.

kf:

[quote]
countries like egypt, turkey, bangladesh, thailand, indonesia, philippines and south korea have gone through long periods of military rule.
[/quote]

But eventually they got freed from dictatorship.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

captain1, your post is a rehash of your previous posts. i have stated earlier that pak support of islam had nothing to do with imposition of islam. pak army's goal was to see a stable and friendly govt in afghanistan and in pak's estimation taliban provided the best option. taliban's interpretation of islam had nothing to do with army's support of taliban.

i have also made my views on pak democracy very clear. if you still dont understand them, than i cannot say anything else to make myself clearer. you are now just repeating yourself so further discussion is a waste of time.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

It was a waste of time to begin with:

[quote]
actually military rule has been the norm in most of modern asia and over the last couple years there have been military coups in thailand and bangledesh and both countries are still under military rule which does not seem to cause goras too much khujlee.
:
why is pakistani military painted as a villan by western media and their pujarees in pak?
[/quote]

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military’s grips

make a print out of this and stick it on your wall and one day show it to your kids and tell them their own confused daddy came up with this stupidity, all on his own with no help whatsoever from Mr Brain :hehe:

as for your questions… please try again in another life-time :halo: :stuck_out_tongue:

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

i dont think much of people who blindly repeat everything they read in western media. market cap of companies controlled by mohammed mansha is greater than market cap of companies controlled by pak army. so by your argument about pak army wanting to control falls flat on its face. moreover under musharraf, army linked institutions have bid for most of the major privatisation projects without succeeding. if musharraf wanted army to control pak economy, why did he not sell entities like ptcl or kesc or habib bank to pak army and why did he not provide cell license to pak army controlled companies? banking and telecom have been the most profitable sector in pak and yet army does not control
them. why is that?

on countries being freed from dictatorship, there are countries in that list such as bdesh, thailand and egypt which still dont have democracy. and countries like s.korea achieved democracy after long period of military rule.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

king faisal, westerners really don't care about Pakistan as much, the only thing they care about is probably the nuke. They don't care about whether its democracy or dictatorship in Pakistan as long as the ruler is obeying their demands. Every country where there is army rule gets their share of criticism, those who are worse (openly, like public harassment, detentions etc) will probably get more.

As for you saying "western media and their pujaris" painting army villain, well most people like to call spade a spade, some shove it under carpet when they see $$$.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military’s grips

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQipIERdoflvsAs0CWy3xjvcGw4QD8SRL5S80

Pakistan Army Dominant Since Nation Born

By STEPHEN GRAHAM – 10 hours ago

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan’s army has led the country for more than half of its 60-year history and dominated — or ended — the fragile rule of the few civilian governments to take office.

The country’s position on the front line of America’s war on terror and the army’s increasing involvement in the economy suggest the generals are well-equipped to defend their privileges — and may be reluctant to share them in the name of democracy.

Officers and their families have their own upscale schools, hospitals and housing compounds. The military is deeply involved in businesses from banking to transportation and, under President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, scores of retired officers have been appointed to run civilian institutions, from universities to the municipality of Islamabad.

“You now have the army completely embedded like marble inside most of the civil institutions,” said Shaun Gregory, a Pakistan expert at the University of Bradford in Britain.

Musharraf, who took power in a 1999 coup, declared Pakistan’s current state of emergency in his capacity as army chief, underscoring the importance of the military in the nation’s turbulent politics. He is refusing to say when constitutional rule will be restored.

He promises to step down from the military once his Oct. 6 presidential election victory had been endorsed by a Supreme Court newly relieved of its most independent justices, but tempered that pledge on Sunday with an affirmation that the nation’s soldiers will back him in any dispute.

“Even if I’m not in uniform, this army will be with me,” Musharraf said.

Pakistan was founded with an oversized security apparatus and little else.

It has fought three wars with its eastern neighbor India, the first within months of independence in 1947. Pakistan also has had border disputes with Afghanistan that have fueled enduring tension on its western frontier.

“Unfortunately, Pakistan did not inherit a strong political system. In the first nine years we couldn’t even find a constitution,” said Mirza Aslam Beg, a former army chief. “It was in this time that the military physically took over.”

Some historians see that legacy in the harsh attitude of Pakistan’s military-dominated elite toward dissent, its bickering politicians and any aspiration toward regional autonomy. The attitude is unlikely to change soon.

“As long as there is the context of the war on terror for the next decades — goodness knows how long — that is going to continue to create a security-focused situation” that the military can exploit, said Gregory.

Musharraf insists his latest suspension of the constitution amounts to a state of emergency, though critics note that he acted in his capacity as army chief and have called it “mini martial law.”

The general insists he had no choice but to remove Supreme Court judges who were hampering the fight against terrorism by ordering the release of suspects held without charge.

That has underlined how both Musharraf and his supporters in the West — who appear loathe to sanction Pakistan’s latest authoritarian lurch — see the military as the key bulwark against Taliban and al-Qaida amid rising extremism, particularly in the regions bordering Afghanistan.

Like all uniformed rulers before him, Musharraf insisted he was acting to protect the nation’s vital interests.

Political parties, in contrast, remain weak — dominated by individuals rather than policies, lacking nationwide appeal and with a record in government stained by corruption and vicious feuding.

The generals, abetted by Pakistan’s powerful and well-resourced intelligence agencies, have been quick to cut down the few prime ministers who tried to take control.

Gen. Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq, who staged his coup in 1977, overthrew Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, father of current opposition leader Benazir Bhutto and arguably the most able politician in Pakistan’s short history. Musharraf toppled Nawaz Sharif when the latter tried to fire him.

The Nov. 3 declaration of an emergency saw Musharraf purge the increasingly assertive Supreme Court just as it prepared to rule on his eligibility for another term as president.

Husain Haqqani, a professor of international relations at Boston University, said the weakness of Musharraf’s legal case “hardly matters.”

“His actions reflect the calculation that he can get away with anything as long as the Pakistan army remains behind him,” Haqqani wrote in a column for Pakistan’s The Nation newspaper.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

Shahzada (Prince) Ji,

Aap to pakkay shahzada niklay (you are far removed from reality like a typical Arab prince).

Have you ever lived in Pakistan? When you walk in a business districts of Karachi, Lahore, Faisalabad, Sialkot, Gujranwala, and Wazirabad, etc, what percentage of businesses are owned by "Faujis"?

(by the way above list is a subset of business and export centers in Pakistan. I assume you have at least this much knowledge about Pakistan)

Did you ever attend meetings of any major "Chamber of commerce" in one of the "business" cities, how many "faujis" members did you see?

I mean people don't know squat about Pakistan, they read a leftie or Mullahtic bhonpoo and become instant experts on Pakistan. Wah bhai Whah.


In the memory of falled soldiers and law-enforcement officers of Pakistan

Pakistan Paindabaad.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

deleted ... wromg thread :)

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military’s grips

^nice.

Those wanting to “save” Pakistan from Army, How very amusing that we have never been able to judge who the greater enemies are…:rolleyes:
Koi haal nai…

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

We should realise that all living in Pakistan is Pakistani and all people, be they in army, bureaucracy and agencies think of Pakistan, probably more than average citizens. Rather it is their job requirements to be loyal and committed to Pakistan.

I think country can be saved from military grips, only when Pakistan gets sincere and honest politicians with good integrity, and political leaders whom not only Nation trusts and vote but all who have brute forces and real power in the country, like armed forces and bureaucrats also trust and respect.

At the moment, I could not see any such leaders and most of our politicians are corrupts and untrustworthy, so how can a country under such political force could stay save from military who also like most citizens of Pakistan do not trust and respect these politicians and their integrity, honesty and personalities?

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

Like Army has been able to defend itself very well and influence other part of system and may be corrupt. if we had ever real democratic leaders and people who sport them by heart , this army will never be able to interfere in civil matters.

real example. when people are against army, Army simply cant control them, real life example people in Bangladesh! they were against west paksitan stance and Army couldnt supress masses.

same could have gone true in Pakistan if we had some people alluring leaders who are sincere with the country. if democracy is dependant of Army always then I dont think it will ever get its right place. one cant blame army for failure of our lota leaders. public dont love them hence in all army coups people stayed at home.

democracy is people power, but in our democracy its all about family, feudal or caste system voting collectively for anyone decided by a group of people- that can be bribed or have some favours.
when individual vote of himself and a sincere leader, they will come and support that leader and democracy, then Army will think twice of any coup!

so stop blamming Army, get your own house right first you all democracy lovers. bring a strong leader who appeal to Pakistan people and have some real respect across Pakistan of majority.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

I think Prince Abbas has a point here, It isn't far fetched. And seems pretty logical to me. I have heard similiar accusations, but no one could ever prove them right or wrong. It's where some believe Pak Army is one of the richest Mafia in Asia.

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military's grips

Exactly, that is why ppl are comparing Today's millitary with the one under Yahya Khan in 1971. Which one is worst, is yet to determine.

Bunch of dogs!!!

Re: Saving Pakistani people from military’s grips

I cant believe you just said that. So you think that it would take something similar to what happened in Bangla to convince you that the people dont want the army.

In case you havent read the report yet…

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/20000917.htm

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=5445165