Has Bush not been in office in the period from March 20 2003 till the present day, when 10,000 plus Iraqi civilians have been killed by the US military - more than any group or regime in that period?
It’s coming thick and fast now…
**White House Retreats From Weapons Claims **](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More)
Well without labouring a point to much and oversimplifying, where are the WMD's, upon the existence of which this war is being fought?
All else including your poor grasp of the English language and my spelling error are by the by.
it's "by the bye", I think perhaps you are in need of oversimplifying?
and the point is that WMDs are a moot point
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*Originally posted by Stu: *
it's "by the bye", I think perhaps you are in need of oversimplifying?
and the point is that WMDs are a moot point
[/QUOTE]
I suppose the American military killing 10,000 Iraqi civilians in the last 10 months is a moot point as well? Or as some other American seems to think a "bonus" for the Iraqi people?
I think there's always more than one way of looking at things Stu just like you can spell focussing with one ‘s’ if you choose. But burying your head in the sand over the core issue of a debate isn't really going to help anyone.
Lest the answer go without a response.
In Saddam's roughly 35 years there have been AT LEAST 900,000 Iraqi deaths. Assasination of political opposition, Marsh Arabs, Kurds, Shia, the disappeared, not even including the two wars that were fought with Iran and Kuwait. So 900,000 divdied by 35 years, divided by 12 months equals a nominal killing rate of 2,135 innocents per month for 35 years.
35 years. Not 10 months for debating points.
Thus after Saddam was gone for 5 months there was a breakeven. Of course Saddams thugs want to continue the killing, for some it is all they have done for 35 years. That legacy lives on. So over the next 7 months, the US will have saved 15,000 lives compared to Saddams "normal" killing rate.
Of course I would add in the deaths of Iraq's soldiers in three useless wars, and the deaths due to sanctions in Saddams columns as well.
Saddam WAS a weapon of mass destructiuon. We found the "Big One".
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*Originally posted by Abdali: *
simple
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Don't even go there Abdali. The American's dare not go after NK's open flouting of WMD or to "liberate" the North Korean people, because not only is too scared to do so, but it busy trying to beat Saddam in the killing of innocent Iraqi people in less than a year.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Don't even go there Abdali. The American's dare not go after NK's open flouting of WMD or to "liberate" the North Korean people, because not only is too scared to do so, but it busy trying to beat Saddam in the killing of innocent Iraqi people in less than a year.
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Ah yes you have to nail the scums with pictures.... Just dig out their old posts and see the change from WMD to Al-Qaeda to liberate to rebuild BS....
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Weapons Intelligence Was ‘Almost All Wrong’ -Former American arms inspector David Kay
Weapons Intelligence Was ‘Almost All Wrong’ -Former American arms inspector David Kay
Just pathetic…
Actually, what he said was the intelligence agencies of every country in the world were wrong. Interesting phenomenon. Mass hypnosis???
Here is a Reuters link that doesn’t require a log-in.
An Excerpt.
"Kay said European countries, including those that did not support the war like France and Germany, had also believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. “It turns out that we were all wrong, probably in my judgment, and that is most disturbing,” he said.
He said the search should continue in Iraq, but that some questions would likely remain unanswered and ambiguous.
** Kay also disputed accusations that intelligence analysts were pressured to reach conclusions to fit the White House political agenda, saying not one had told him that. **
“I had innumerable analysts who came to me in apology that the world that we were finding was not the world that they had thought existed and that they had estimated,” Kay said. They cited the limited data on which they had based conclusions, he said. "
Thanx for the input Myvoice. Do you agree with him or no ?
-Salman
I haven’t formed a final conclusion yet. The odds of there being WMD stockpiles have certainly gone down considerably. Even while Kay states what he does, you get contrary statements now and again. This one today:
Iraq Minister Says Saddam’s WMD Carefully Hidden
Thu January 29, 2004 10:17 AM ET
By Anna Mudeva
SOFIA, Bulgaria (Reuters) - Iraqi foreign minister Hoshiyar Zebari said Thursday Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction had been carefully hidden, but he was confident they could be discovered.
“I have every belief that some of these weapons could be found as we move forward,” Zebari, an Iraqi Kurd, told a news conference in Sofia. “They have been hidden in certain areas. The system of hiding was very sophisticated.”
It is so very hard to believe that every intelligence agency in the world pretty much believed Saddam had WMD and that every one of them were wrong. If nothing is ever found, I’d be as surprised as I would be to learn Israel has no nukes. It has never tested any and doesn’t confirm or deny having them. Everyone believes they have a stockpile of around 200. To learn they have nothing and it was all a bluff would surprise me in the same way not finding WMD in Iraq is surprising me.
Iraq’s first stockpile was found buried beside the Euphrates River if you remember. And it took a long time to discover that burial ground. So, it’s still possible. Maybe not likely…but possible.
no one denied Iraq having WMD"s.. how can countries deny when they themselves were the primary suppliers!!
The issue here is the 'intelligence' used and the eagerness to jump to conclusions of a waging a pre-emptive war based on a non-threat.. The rhetoric of 'National Defense' employed to attack a sovereign nation.. (yeah yeah he was feeding babies to lions and parked in handicap spots).. but one has to question the judgement of a trigger-happy administration and their future cases for war or pretty much anything involving sending American men and women to combat..
The White House has acknowledged for the first time that its intelligence reports on Iraq might have been wrong.](BBC NEWS | Middle East | US admits Iraq intelligence flaws)
:hehe: Yes, a few diehard extremist supporters might believe that, but increasing numbers of people know who the real liars are.
At least we can now rightly start dismissing any and all US-UK intelligence and government claims, in the past and future. I wonder what other examples of “faulty” intelligence there have been?
The lies told by Bush…
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=65470&ran=154360
In his own words: GWB on WMD
States like these (Iraq, Iran, North Korea) … constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. The United States of America will not permit the world’s most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world’s most destructive weapons.” — President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 29, 2002
“The Iraqi regime possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons… If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today — and we do — does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons? — President George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Oct. 7, 2002
“Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of Sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.” — President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003
*“The security of the world requires disarming Saddam Hussein now.” *— President George W. Bush, March 17, 2003
“We’ve begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime because the regime is no more.” — President George W. Bush, May 1, 2003
“We’ll find them. It’ll be a matter of time to do so.” — President George W. Bush, May 3, 2003
“We based our decisions on good, sound intelligence, and the — our people are going to find out the truth. And the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There’s no doubt in my mind.” — President George W. Bush, July 17, 2003
“Our coalition has made sure that Iraq’s former dictator will never again use weapons of mass destruction. We are interviewing Iraqi citizens and analyzing records of the old regime to reveal the full extent of its weapons programs and its long campaign of deception.” — President George W. Bush Sept. 23, 2003
“He (Saddam) had a weapons program.” — President George W. Bush, Oct. 29, 2003
“Already the Kay report identified dozens of weapons of mass destruction-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations.” — President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 20, 2004
“We know from years of intelligence — not only our own intelligence services, but other intelligence-gathering organizations — that [Saddam] had weapons.” — President George W. Bush, Jan. 27, 2004
David Kay, top Iraq weapons inspector for the Bush administration, testifying before the Senate Armed Services Committee, Jan. 28, 2004: “We were almost all wrong.”