Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
^ everything goes to bread and butter. Mullahs can use their sermon to hate other sects/minorities to attract towards them so they get better bread and butter. Poor people do as result of what I just said.
PS: sermons are before prayer, not after.
Sermons do play a big role but fortunately not all mullahs distribute venom, specially if their audience is literate/educated (parhay likhay).
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
If I were to post an article from an Islamic website stating the terrible persecution Muslims are facing in other countries, would you find that credible and readily accept it as true?
The letter not only contains mesmerizing words but lacks in content as well. Words like “disdainful attitude”, “despicable treatment”, “deplorable condition” can be applied to many Pakistani Muslims too. When I was in Pakistan and I wanted an identity card I had go through a painful process myself and I felt humiliated too. Many Pakistani Muslims as well as Christians and Hindus live in miserable conditions. What I find despicable is people using them for some other ulterior motive. If the title of this essay was “Condition of Christians in Pakistan”, I would give him a 4/10 since he has not highlighted ‘specific issues’ that concern him as a Christian, instead he has given a very general account of Christians and a very subjective one too.
Is he pointing to specific law that considers all non-Muslims non-Pakistanis? If there is such a law then I would have to agree with him. If he is pointing to the general perception of Pakistani Muslims regarding Pakistani Christians I disagree with him. Read below.
I strongly disagree with the writer. My own experience tells me Christians are not hated by Muslims in Pakistan. My dad comes from a village in rural Punjab and there are many Christians living at peace with Muslims. They have their own Church just like Muslims have their Mosques. I have NEVER heard of a Muslim Pakistani speaking against Christian Pakistanis. On the contrary my friends who did their schooling in Pakistan often admired and acknowledged their Christian professors and friends just like they acknowledge and Muslim professors.
What are the specific “Limited Rights” the writer is talking about? And how do these rights affect the progress and prosperity of Pakistani Christians despite their qualifications, ability and merit? Are there laws that limit Pakistani Christians’ admission to schools and universities etc or keep them from residing in big cities and utilizing the necessary resources for prospering?
I cannot tell you how glad I am to read from a Christian website that a Maulvi actually went to court to resolve a dispute, normally Maulvis are portrayed as violet people often leading a mob of angry people. The writer states Muslims scholars and Maulvis have no standing in civil society yet in the next paragraph claims a Maulvi filed a law suit against him. He contradicts himself by saying that. People in civil societies seek civilized ways to resolve their differences. The writer should know that well before lecturing others about civil societies. How does going to court translate into insult for “Ecclesiastical Office of Commission” (what ever that is) and Holy Personage?
And more mesmerizing words. It seems to me as if words are being put in his mouth by some outside source.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
I do not have a first hand experience of the condition of minorities in Pakistan. But all I wanted to say is that if an ex army man (army men are almost always the most nationalist men in the country) is so disillusioned at the current state of minorities in the country and is planning to quit the country, then one must seriously take note of the situation. A soldier will be the last person to give up his citizenship.
hehe.. funny you should say that. I used to work for a this Muslim Pakistani guy at McDonalds. He was a Major in Pakistan Army and had served his country for 15 years. Then he decided to leave the Army and came over to U.S. He is still proud of his country and believes Pakistan has one of the best Army in the world. Both he and his wife manage 3 McDonalds resturants.
I also have a friend who left Pakistan Army and came over to U.S. There are many others, another person I know owns a gas station, he was in Pakistan Army too. You see people have different reasons for leaving Army, some want to start their own business, some leave due to financial responsibilities etc.
Read Missing_in_action's thread in Career and Academics. He is serving as a pilot in Pakistan Airforce and wants to go to Canada or Australia. Someone asked him why he wanted to leave the job. He gave a good response.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
I also have a friend who left Pakistan Army and came over to U.S. There are many others, another person I know owns a gas station, he was in Pakistan Army too. You see people have different reasons for leaving Army, some want to start their own business, some leave due to financial responsibilities etc.
Read Missing_in_action's thread in Career and Academics. He is serving as a pilot in Pakistan Airforce and wants to go to Canada or Australia. Someone asked him why he wanted to leave the job. He gave a good response.
What's your point?
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Ulta chor kutwaal ko dantey... Its these zealots whom you adore so much that have made their lives miserable... They need to fix themselves up, thats the solution, nothing else will work, even though you are right to some extent, but even money cant get rid of discrimination perpetrated by the moolaz.
I have with my own ears heard alot of mau-lanna sahibz at friday khutbaz spread hatred towards Pakistani Christians, and even Ahmedis. Sadly, people like you take the word of these imam's in very high esteem, no matter what they tell you.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
gotta get rid of the draconian blaphemy laws in Pakistan which have often been used to target christians in Pakistan.there was this christian professor in pindi who was arrested and put on death row because he had said that Prophet Muhammad did'nt know how to read and write and was not muslim untill age 40 infront of his students who reported it to their local mosque and he was arrested.he is now living in the u.k on asylum.there are others like him who were not so lucky and are in jail right now and need to be pardoned by the govt.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
not all ex army men who plan to quit the country do so because they are so disillusioned at the current state of affairs as you have put it! I have given examples of people who were ex army men and still go back to their country and are proud to have served its army.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Spock, havent seen you around, I hope every thing is fine. I believe that Islam put the responsibility on each and every one of us for the decisions that we make. Now some can blame that on the imams or leaders they follow but at the end of the day it will be our acts that will make all the difference.
The only discrimination I have seen in Pakistan is the one done on the bases of social and economic status, the poor christian or Muslim dosent have the guts or the resources to get justice. Can there be any greater discrimination than this? but, you can blame that on the religious zealots as well, may be they failed us in telling us about Islam or may be we as Muslim failed to stand out for justice.
Peace
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
F*** him. If he wants to be a martyr, let him.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Another publicity stunt!!!
Although I do agree (to some degree) to some points in this stunt but letter was not actually meant to give-up the citizenship. It was a publicity stunt. Everyone know that for all immigration and citizenship matters you need to contact “Ministry of Interior” and not “Pervez Musharraf”
At one hand he is making too much fuss about his “love and loyalty” to Pakistan and on the other hand he is dying to forfeit the citizenship. You don’t do that to the country you love no matter what. Everyday many Muslims also go through despicable treatment too, but they don’t give-up their citizenship.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
At least Pakistanis allow these idiotic protestations, while in the neighboring Bharat, minorities get burnt alive for being a minority...
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
India beech mein kahan se aa gaya.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Quitting a country is different from giving away your citizenship.
And giving up one's citizenship when you have moved to another country is different from giving one's citizenship when one is not happy with the current state of hi minority.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Although I do agree (to some degree) to some points in this stunt but letter was not actually meant to give-up the citizenship. It was a publicity stunt. Everyone know that for all immigration and citizenship matters you need to contact “Ministry of Interior” and not “Pervez Musharraf”
At one hand he is making too much fuss about his “love and loyalty” to Pakistan and on the other hand he is dying to forfeit the citizenship. You don’t do that to the country you love no matter what. Everyday many Muslims also go through despicable treatment too, but they don’t give-up their citizenship.
You do that only to the country you love.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Sharia isnt exactly a level playing field is it?
And btw I’m a Pakistani Sunni Muslim Punjabi…according to most the best group to be in within a Pakistani social context. I’d rather Pak scrapped its “Islamic codes”, and operated under secular law.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Exactly, the so called sharia fails the basic test of justice by not placing all humans as equal.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
And btw I'm a Pakistani Sunni Muslim Punjabi...according to most the best group to be in within a Pakistani social context. I'd rather Pak scrapped its "Islamic codes", and operated under secular law.
On the contrary the letter of the law may be "islamic" in pak, but what's actually applied is punjabi rural jhalat...panchayat in pinds sentencing women to be gang-raped and what not...
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
oldy publicity drama.wanted to be encouraged by western media and to be a hero like mukhtaran mai.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Drama hai sab drama.
Re: Sad day: Pak Christian gives up his nationality to protest discrimination
Drama, I don't think so. Only few months back, a muslim mob burned down a church in sukkur with 100's of bibles inside.