Oh man, you may need to plan on getting new reading glasses.
The whole thread is about required actions of Palestinians to save "Palestinian lives". Israelis have the required knowledge and intellect to save theirs.
Arab league's (or Amnesty's) ba ba black sheep is not going to save Palestinians. Haven't you seen enough in the last 60 years?
Only Palestinians can save themselves.
Remember! Even God doesn't help those who won't help themselves. Kapeesh!
Maybe it's just me, but launching thousands of rockets into a neighboring country is not backed by "international law".
The Palestinians are spoiling for a fight. They are not victims, they enjoy playing a propaganda card with victim printed on it. You have bought into their propaganda.
And let's be very clear, just because Hamas is "Democratically Elected" does not mean that we have to love them. Bush is democratically elected, does that mean that you automatically accept all of his policies? "Democratically Elected"? Hitler was democratically elected. It is the actions and interactions of the government that will allow the rest of the "Democratically Elected" world to decide whether they will integrate with Hamas.
Hamas was the lesser of two evils in the election. They did not receive a radical mandate, they were chosen for their grass roots efforts to help the Palestinian people. They have succeeded in making life horribly worse.
Palestinians are primarily victims of their corrupt incompetent leadership.
Yes, OG, down with the people who are already down. Just because they elect Hamas they deserve to be killed, their land must be invaded and lives must be turn to a living hell. Those children deserve it, those innocent civilians deserve to be killed. Excellent :k:
It is that Palestenians have bought into propaganda of the leftie elite as the likes of Man without a plan. That leftie propaganda has earned Palestinians nothing but death and destruction for the last six long decades.
Remember! If Man without a Plan buys into Palistinian propaganda, that would not a problem for Palestinians.
p.s. I agree that Palestinians have had terrible leadership. Had they selected / elected the likes of Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan, they would have accepted the international borders and moved on with their lives.
You sound as if there are no adults present. You sound as if the Palestinians are children that have to be excused because they are immature and stupid. It’s not just electing Hamas. It is shooting thousands of rockets at a vastly superior military force. How frikkin’ stupid is that? It’s as if a few rockets just need to be overlooked.
But don’t worry, it’s just not you. Kofi is apparently an idiot also:
Yedioth Ahronoth : A diplomatic crisis erupted between Israel and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan who demanded an investigation into the incident in which a Palestinian family was killed on the Gaza beach. UN diplomatic sources said that Annan called Prime Minister Olmert on Saturday night and asked that Israel respond proportionately to the fire from Gaza and in accordance with international law. This angered Olmert, who said : “Is the firing of hundreds of Kassam rockets in accordance with international law ? Why didn’t you phone me after 30 rockets were fired at Israel and say you wanted this investigated ?” Annan replied that he was not aware of this. Annan’s answer was met with astonishment in the political and security establishment.
The Foreign Ministry decided that from now on the Israeli delegation in the UN would give the UN secretary general and the duty president of the UN Security Council a daily update on the Kassam rocket count in Israel. In the last three days there were 69 Kassam rockets. http://www.eurojewcong.org/ejc/news.php?id_article=497
23 Palestinian civilians have been killed in past 24 hours. How many civilians were injured during those rocket attacks?
Since the offensive began, Israel killed more than 40 Palestinians, its missiles destroyed the only power plant in Gaza, struck the Gaza offices of the prime minister and the interior minister, bombed. Palestinians had to flee their homes because of massive land and air offensive. According to many sources, Israeli forces entered refugee camp and killed a 16 year old. On Thursday, Human Rights violation passed a resolution denouncing Israels offensive against the Palestinians.
You would think given those statisitcs (some of which I doubt), that the Palestinians would avoid conflict eh? They might negociate? They might desire peace? Sorry, Palestinians are dying, I mistakenly thought that the Palestinian Government might take actions to *prevent deaths rather than to invite them. *
Short of painting “Kill Me You Stupid Jew” on their foreheads, they could not be more obvious in inviting conflict.
Oh brother, counting the dead to make your point is as rotten as the bodies of those poor souls.
So what will make you happy? 5 dead on each side? or 100 dead on each side.
One party throws 50 dud missiles.
the second party replies with 10 that kill 23.
Is this a tamasha (game) of throwing missiles to see how many civilians get killed per missile?
It is truly moronic to support bunch of tribals who don't know how to live peacefully in a civilized world. Palestinians did not accept the borders in 1948, and they won't accept it now.
Instead of accepting the borders (like Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan), these Palestinians want to blast Israel. How pathetic is that? the answer based on Palestinian casualties! Very Pathetic.
Read my posts on this thread, start to finish, where do I sound like someone who thinks of this as a game?
Entire thread is filled with facts on what is going on in Gaza and what is the response? Not a single word of sympathy; rather than its their fault because Hamas is there because something happened decades ago becuase they are tribals...and I sound like a racist hypocrite? I sound like a person who thinks they have invited this misery to themselves and they deserve to be killed viciously like this?
Supply of sympathy for Palestinians. That is easy!
Remval of apathy of Palestinians towards their own future! Mighty difficult!
60 years have gone by and Palestinians are still looking for "sympathy" from the leftie elite, and those lefties have obliged by sending over tons of sympathy. Did that sympathy change any of the ground reality? No.
Why?
Palestinians do not need sympathy for a problem that has been festering for 60 long years.
Palestinians need a jolt, may be a push to get them out of their long internalized apathy.
Yes, and according to you Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan accepted the borders that help Pakistan’s creation, instead the long hard fought struggle that spaned 100 years against an aggressive force. Excellent logic :k:
No thanks antiobl, I don’t want to drink from your fountain of knowledge.
Oh bhai, Pakistani and Bharati borders were already marked and the two states had already been created.
Pakistani leadership's acceptance of the borders helped us keep Pakistan from getting into anarchy. Anarchy in 1947 would have helped Bharat for sure. They had their army in tact, while Pakistan needed at least 3 years to setup their command structure even when the soldiers and officers were readily available.
Palestinians on the other hand refused to accept the borders, and guess what! They lost what was being given to them on a plate.
Greed for more land is not good if you are a poor tribal biddu.
Palestinian struggle is only 60 years old. What hath you smokin! may be this 100 years snuff.
israelis r terrorists...an illegal state....israelis deserve death....world will be much safer without them...they kill innocent children and men...really western people are the most uncivilized people in the world who continue to support israelis terrorists....
hell to all those baygharat american agent muslims who dont have any interests in saving palestine muslims infact are more interested in protecting israelis.........
. David Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, the president of the World Jewish Congress:
If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
…
When she was prime minister, Golda Meir famously remarked that ‘there is no such thing as a Palestinian.’
…
Ehud Barak’s purportedly generous offer at Camp David would have given them only a disarmed set of Bantustans under de facto Israeli control. The tragic history of the Jewish people does not obligate the US to help Israel today no matter what it does.
…
Israel’s backers also portray it as a country that has sought peace at every turn and shown great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. Yet on the ground, Israel’s record is not distinguishable from that of its opponents. Ben-Gurion acknowledged that the early Zionists were far from benevolent towards the Palestinian Arabs, who resisted their encroachments – which is hardly surprising, given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab land. In the same way, the creation of Israel in 1947-48 involved acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres and rapes by Jews, and Israel’s subsequent conduct has often been brutal, belying any claim to moral superiority. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed. The IDF murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war in both the 1956 and 1967 wars, while in 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights.
During the first intifada, the IDF distributed truncheons to its troops and encouraged them to break the bones of Palestinian protesters. The Swedish branch of Save the Children estimated that ‘23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the intifada.’ Nearly a third of them were aged ten or under. The response to the second intifada has been even more violent, leading Ha’aretz to declare that ‘the IDF . . . is turning into a killing machine whose efficiency is awe-inspiring, yet shocking.’ The IDF fired one million bullets in the first days of the uprising. Since then, for every Israeli lost, Israel has killed 3.4 Palestinians, the majority of whom have been innocent bystanders; the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli children killed is even higher (5.7:1). It is also worth bearing in mind that the Zionists relied on terrorist bombs to drive the British from Palestine, and that Yitzhak Shamir, once a terrorist and later prime minister, declared that ‘neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.’
…"
Look no one says Israel and Palestinians have to do lovey dovey with each other. Given the history, that is not possible. At least not right now.
Palestinians need their self rule, and they can get it. What kind of self rule would that be? it is up to the parties involved and the situation on the ground.
Pullout from Gaza was a step #1 and not the final step. That allowed Palestinians to exhibit a sense of responsibility towards the borders between Gaza and Israel.
Palestinians are the weaker party, so they have to do more towards protecting their borders from within.
I give example of Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan. They respected the international border with Bharat even in the face of bombastic statements of Bharati leaders. No rocket, not even a bullet was fired from Pakistani side across the border of Punjab, or Sindh.
Result: Pakistan got enough breathing room to develop its infrastructure, and its army. That made it strong enough to deal with full scale wars. And now 60 years on, Pakistan has survived to become a nuclear power.
Palestinians on the other hand refused to accept borders. It meant no time to develop Palestinian institutions like their army. The only thing they have is a tiny police force, and some gung-ho terrorists lobbing Shurlees (fire-crackers) that they call rockets. Even Chinese made better fireworks 5000 years ago.
This joke of Palestinian government doesn't understand the value of "buying time". Every successful regime "bought time", even at their opponents’ terms.
Oh well it is too much to expect bunch of tribals to behave as "sane entity".
There is no point in cutting and pasting Ben Gourian's statement without showing statements of their Palestinian counterparts. *Whatever happened 60 years ago shows that one side was smarter and powerful than the other. And the weaker side never understood the proper use of their brains.
*