Requirements for fight

Re: Requirements for fight

Let assume for a moment there are no pre-condition for offensive Jihad, it would still be invalid for today's muslims to do so because in their current situation, muslim armies have NOTHING to offer to non-muslim nations. They cannot even establish justice in their own countries, let alone non-muslim countries. Social and Welfare system of non-muslim countries is far better than in any muslim country. In fact, to do Jihad this way under current circumstances is "creating fisaad" in my opinion.

Re: Requirements for fight

Brother i am not asking muslims armies to go attack kuffar, these armies have nothing to offer, so it is just clarification of understanding that i got the impression of negation of offensive jihad.

We need to improve ourselves first before giving dawah to world like this.

We have evidences brother, that a khilafah have to establish islamic rule all over the world, similar to what western nations are trying todo with us, imposing their democracy to countries.

Any way i have shared link to a good book, and any one can see how sahbah:razi: gave dawah to kuffar,it is difficult for many to digest but this what real islamic dawah is.

Re: Requirements for fight

well said bao.
democracy/secularism looks apparently a 'justified' system but actually there is strategy from west that is, make people follow shaitan so they will never choose an Islamic system even if they have 'liberty' to do so.

Re: Requirements for fight

When some groups who consider themselves fighting for the glory of Islam start killing people indiscriminately it will have a reaction. And in this case its hatred against the tool which these groups believe to be using for imposition of 'Shariah'.

Re: Requirements for fight

I totally agree with Ali_Syed … In Islam we do not justify the means by the ends …

And for more information about the volatility of the notion of the religious taking a position that demands power of the state is to look closely at Islamic history.

I think this idea of jihad being taken out of the Muslims is a non-issue, because the ones who are not careful about their acts of violence are also not careful about their motives. There is a big difference between having a Muslim in power to having Islam raised as a symbol of power.

But some people see no difference in these two and probably the same people are the ones who desire power as well, which makes them unfit to rule.

the video above was made before the Ikhwan of Egypt took power, and then subsequently lost it. The Ikhwan gained favour for a short while but they very quickly lost legitimacy … And legitimacy to lead comes from the people not from Divine Scripture. This is the reason for the caliphate was to show us how legitimacy in leadership is assumed. In order to bring Islam back to the Muslim states is not appoint a religious Muslim, but to persuade the hearts of the people to return to Islam …

Re: Requirements for fight

In Islam, there is no such thing as Offensive Jihad. Islam has Jihad and Fasad.

Jihad = Defensive Jihad
Fasad = Offensive Jihad (plus much more)

It is obvious that if one would use force to change others beliefs or occupy land others live, then it would be initiating killing and Fasad … as it is right of all to defend themselves, their lands, and their beliefs.

Throughout Quran Allah says that it is duty of Muslims to be just, and not to enforce beliefs on others by force, rather Allah told Muslims that beliefs are personal matters, and Allah has not made anyone as overseer of other people’s faith.

Allah has even stopped Prophet (SAW) to take duty or think as overseer (guarding, supervisor, boss, or observer) of other people’s faith. Allah even stopped Muslims to talk bad or demean what others follow as religion (even to abstain from abusing, talking bad or demeaning Gods other’s worship).

Whenever a person, group, or state tries to change or impose their beliefs (Islamic or whatever) on others using laws, violation, suppression, aggression, discrimination, injustices, etc ... then that is Fasad … and to claim such act as Islamic is kufr.

Quran (many Ayahs) and Hadith abounds that prohibits Fasad of any kind … including Fasad in the name of Islam and that includes offensive Jihad … calling Fisadis as people who wage war against Allah.

It is ignorance to say that tool of Isa (AS) and Mehdi (AS) would be Offensive Jihad, as they (AS) would never do offensive Jihad. It would be army of Kuffars (including Fasadis) who would be aggressive towards peaceful Muslims, and they (AS) would defend Muslims against the army of Kuffars (non-Muslims and also Fasadis who would claim that they are Muslims).

To say that Khalifa have to establish Islamic rule all over the world is abusive statement full of ignorance. One can only say that a Muslim head of state (or Khalifa) should establish rule of Allah on area that person is ruling (that is obvious, as a Muslim head of state rules on behalf of Allah).

If it was duty of Khalifa to establish Islamic rule all over the world, than each and every Khalifa after Prophet (SAW) and even Prophet (SAW) did not fulfil their Islamic duty if they spent a single day without fighting non-Muslims unprovoked, just to expand Islamic rule ... and that is what they did throughout (tried to rule in peace and only responded when faced aggression).

If Islam was to be enforced, Umar (RA) would not have declined to pray in church fearing that by such act, later Muslims might not convert that particular church to Mosque. Unlike Taliban Kharjees blowing statue of Buddah, when many lands with numerous built statues came under Muslim rule, Umar (RA) did not ordered destruction of any statues. When Afghanistan came under Muslim rule during Usman (RA) time, Buddah statue that Kharjees under Mullah Umar destroyed was left alone (as leaving alone those statues was Islam, and destroying them was Fasad).

Further, Prophet (SAW) could not have made Allah and people witness in his last sermon, claiming that he (SAW) has fulfilled his duty … as, if it was his (SAW) duty to establish Islamic rule all over the world than certainly Prophet (SAW) did not fulfilled that duty … rather, Prophet (SAW) did not even tried. Actually, prophet (SAW) made treaties with non-Muslims and fought only those who fought him (SAW).

Quran throughout talked about separate lands for Muslims and kuffars, showing that existence of both is according to will of Allah. Actually, at one place in Quran, Allah says that if Allah wanted to, then all would have been believers.

Anyhow, in later days, many head of states with mind of Fasadis but claiming to be Muslim, for purpose of expanding their kingdom (not Islamic kingdom but their kingdom of greed) just like past kings and tyrants, did aggression against peaceful kingdoms, killing many innocent human creations of Allah, and named that Jihad. Unfortunately, in their Fasad that they called Jihad, these tyrants even fought many other Muslim Kings and killed many innocent Muslims.

If one reads Quran, message is clear that there is no jabr (force) in religion and establishing Islamic rule over those who do not believe on Islam or those who do not want to live under Islam is jabr. Even amongst Muslims, there could be two different understanding and interpretation of Islam, so one enforcing their understanding and interpretation of Islam over others (because at the time one is more powerful than others) would be jabr (fitna, fasad) that Islam prohibits.

[Just imagine situation where at a place, a 'group of Muslim A’ are more powerful and stronger than 'group of Muslim B’, so taking advantage of their strength, 'group of Muslim A' enforces their understanding and interpretation of Islam over 'group of Muslim B’, calling that Jihad and cutting throat of those who do not accept ... then over time situation changes and 'group of Muslim B’ becomes powerful and stronger than 'group of Muslim A’, so 'group of Muslim B' starts doing the same, enforcing their understanding and interpretation of Islam over 'group of Muslim A', calling it Jihad and cutting throat who reject them.

Same can be said about people of one religion over other, enforcing their religion over others when they are in strength.

All such would only create Fitna and Fasad on ard (earth), and that is what Shaitan wants and Allah not only prohibits but abhor, calling that as war against Allah.]

Actually, we can see Munafiqat and kufr clearly in those who try to promote Offensive Jihad. For instance, if one ask them: What Kuffars should do with Muslims and Muslim states?

If Kuffars find means, are Kuffars justified to occupy peaceful Muslim lands, forcefully converting Muslims to their religion, killing those who reject them ... or even enforce their religious beliefs on Muslims who live in their land?

One would find these misguided people would say ‘No', they (Kuffars) are not justified’ to occupy Muslim lands and enforce their beliefs on Muslims. These people would not even hesitate to call such acts of Kuffars as ‘Zulm’ (what they regularly say about Palestinian occupation).

It shows that even these people believe and admit that such act (offensive jihad … or invasion without provocation) is Zulm if others commit that same act against Muslims … but they are ignorant to believe that is not Zulm but offensive Jihad if Muslims (rather they) commit same act against others (Kuffars and even Muslims who do not agree with them).

Actually, by declaring Zulm as offensive Jihad, these people try to portray that Kuffars who do not invade others without provocation, are better human beings than them and are following Islam (there is no force in religion) better than them (obviously not Muslims, but them).

Re: Requirements for fight

It should be hatred against people misusing the tool rather then the tool, we dont hate hajj if some haji does some thing wrong.

Brother Psyah, i think that the speaker in the video you posted intentionaly or unintentionaly tried to misrepresent few things. Using hadith for scholars not to go to rulers does not justify that rulers should not use quran and sunnah in running the state. I wish i had more time to discuss more on what he said.I would love to read any thing from quran and sunnah and practice of sahbaha:razi: to prove that khilafa do not need offensive jihad, any thing else comes after that. Without offensive jihad we will stop the way of dawah.(Please read interpretation of surah nasr from classical mufasireen on why fatah is liked to increase in reversions ).

I am not emphasing on this point just for discussion but to present a point that we should read more about jihad to be able to understand what is right and what is wrong, it is our duty to know about this fardh.

Brother Saleem

Inshallah will read up your post later, once again i would like to request that when replying to my posts or my thread please make sure to post shorter replies and in one colour.

Re: Requirements for fight

Peace bro bao bihari

Dr. Khalid Blankinship is a highly under-rated scholar of history in general, but as a Muslim he has studied Islamic history from angles that you and I couldn't even perceive until he provides glimpses of it, he rolls dates of his tongue without a thought ...

In other videos and his analysis of Islamic civilisation he emphasises that the caliphate model is doomed to failure ... We cannot return to it ... What he wishes for is a form of Islamic democracy ... That state is separate to the religion, but collectively the people democratically favour religious ideals ... That is Islamic Shari'ah is implemented through the choice of the masses rather than being imposed on them or reinterpreted to be favourable to the ruling elite.

The term "offensive jihad" ... I find oxymoronic and offensive ... How can a religion that practices peace be in favour of bloodshed? Rather the only mechanism of jihad that makes sense is to pick up a sword only to take the sword out of the hands of a madman ... And after that is achieved to put that sword back down again, this is jihad.

We don't need colonial penetration these days ... Islam as an ideology is spread everywhere ... The intent of spreading Islam to the whole world is already achieved through modern media ... And the fruits of it are people like Khalid Blankinship ... who are born to non-Muslims and convert to Islam.

This does not in any way diminish our zeal for jihad ... That is a misnomer ... Jihad as in the form found on Muslim battlefields of the past ... should be waged when there is need for it not for the sake of it.