matsui: u got ur statistics wrong....
sunni muslims r the largest religious group in the world so go figure....
asif_k: u r making me sure that u r not a muslim....
the high population increase rate hype in just an excuse created by anti-Islamists....
I adore the message of equality (in places), of ethics and oneness with god (which is there in every religion).
Absolutely 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sweetpie: *
Asif, you must live in a very sheltered, secluded area because here .......blah blah blah...It's wonderful to see the extent of power our faith has all across the globe.
[/QUOTE]
Sweetpie honey,
I dont live in Shelter, but I dont live in denial either. It is indeed wonderful to have our faith with us but I am not so sure about its power all across the world. Because I see muslims suffering in pretty much every part of the world mostly because of our 14th Century thinking.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
asif_k: u r making me sure that u r not a muslim....
the high population increase rate hype in just an excuse created by anti-Islamists....
[/QUOTE]
armughal - You should try to be a muslim first and let Allah decide who is a muslim and who isn't.
Everything which is against your view or your propaganda is created by anti-islamists, isn't it ??
Asif, question: are you absolutely positively 100% sure you’re Muslim? Also, what is this 14th century nonsense you’re referring to? Support with examples. Let’s hear this.
PS: making cheap stabs at those that disagree with you isn’t helping your cause any.
^stonings for adultery, interest is haraam, four marriages allowed, JIHAD. whateelse so you need.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sweetpie: *
Asif, question: are you absolutely positively 100% sure you're Muslim?
[/QUOTE]
Ask that to yourself first ?? Are you a muslim. Ridiculing other religions doesn't make you one.
[QUOTE]
making cheap stabs at those that disagree with you isn't helping your cause any.
[/QUOTE]
You should have thought about that before taking a cheapshot at me.
^ great comeback, Joe Shmo. 
Do me a favor, try answering my question and we’ll go from there. I notice that you have this tendency in every discussion-oriented thread to be a nuissance. Try to stay calm, act mature, and reply in a civilized manner or please stay off this thread. Now like I said, answer my question about citing examples of the 14th century nonsense you’re referring to or go disturb someone else on their thread. Many thanks.
-Sweets
Looks like you skipped Matty's post which was right on spot.
But since You want examples, So I will start with two examples, let's start with the real life story of a 60 years old Indian muslim women 'Shahbano' :-
*"In 1978, Shahbano, a 65-year-old Muslim woman, asked for financial “maintenance” from her husband, who had abandoned her for another woman. Shahbano’s demands ran counter to the Indian legal system, which in an effort to manage the volatile religious diversity of its citizenry, continues to recognize the distinct marriage and divorce laws of minority communities. In the case of Muslim law, this meant that Shahbano, who had no means to support herself, was due only three months’ maintenance for more than 40 years of marriage.
The Indian Supreme Court, which in a landmark decision overruled Muslim law and awarded Shahbano 25 rupees (60 cents) per month ongoing maintenance. The victory was short lived though, the court’s ruling outraged several Muslim groups, and hundreds of thousands took to the streets in rallies. In the end, the Indian government, bowing to Muslim pressure, passed legislation that effectively negated the Supreme Court’s decision." *
Now we move to Malaysia where a local government has passed a bill to bring in Islamic Law :-
"A state government in Malaysia has approved a bill to bring in Islamic criminal laws, including death by stoning for adultery and cutting off hands and feet for theft.
The bill on hudud law - the Islamic penal code - was proposed by the government of Terengganu, a rural state in the north-east run by Islamic party PAS"
PS :- If you open a thread and want only those to post who support your views then please mention that in the first post.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
^stonings for adultery, interest is haraam, four marriages allowed, JIHAD. whateelse so you need.
[/QUOTE]
are u saying adultery is a good thing? and shud be promoted rather than discouraged?
interest is haram because it keeps a person in debt.
four marriages are allowed under unconditions, such as if ur first wife cant have kids, or she is dead etc
Jihad is not what "terrorists" are doing. Jihad can be managing ur anger, jihad is trying to be tolerant of things that u cant stand it etc.
seems to me that islam to u all is what CNN potrays it to be or what ppl like rushdie or irshad tells u. I suggest u do ur own research and study about it before jumping to any conclusions.
^ exactly....
Jihad is one of the most beautiful things in Islam.. but the west has distorted its meaning and its message sooo badly that mentioning the word in public causes people grief...
if people actually looked at the real meaning behind all these conditions (like stoning, interest being haram, polygamy).. then they would think twice about bagging it..
It is quite evident that you are Indian (which I didn’t know but it isn’t difficult to put two and two together to figure this much out) and you confirm my long-standing theory on (most) Indian Muslims which I will not disclose at the moment due to not wanting to unnecessarily offend others that are Indian Muslim as well (however a select group of folks do know how I feel and are in agreement with me on this in general). All I WILL say is that if you’re so proud to be Indian then please also adopt India’s main ideology (Hinduism) in light of you defending it in every other post. Now THAT would be the righteous, non-cowardly thing for you to do. Hey, why not? After all, seems Hinduism gives you peace of mind similar to how Buddhism gives Karina a sense of insight.
Regarding the two examples you cited, let me say that anyone with half a brain would know that Example #1 is an isolated case which can be applied across the board to ANY culture. I say culture because it isn’t even a religious-based example! It bears relevance more to the rules and legal ramifications of the Indian justice system than to the Islamic religion or penal code. Also, in reference to Example #2 regarding Malaysia passing the above-mentioned bill, I say to the Malaysian goverment “Go For It!..More Power To You!” If the country deems this type of a strict regulatory code to (in this case) prevent or greatly reduce petty crime, then all the more power to it. Apparently, if the given forms of punishment work for countries such as Saudi Arabia, then why shouldn’t Malaysia follow suit and experiment? It only goes to show, if anything, that the “archaic” punishments of yester-years are much more effective than any civil punishments prescribed by legal systems of various countries today. Here again, I beg the question: where is the relevance to Islam in this example? Like the one before, this example also is based on cultural and traditional elements alone. Religion plays no part whatsoever in them.
BTW, I posted this thread to welcome a discussion on this topic. Discussions are all about agreements and disagreements. I welcome different points of view however note that if you present your perspective on something, be prepared to back it up. Ciao.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
^ exactly....
Jihad is one of the most beautiful things in Islam.. but the west has distorted its meaning and its message sooo badly that mentioning the word in public causes people grief...
if people actually looked at the real meaning behind all these conditions (like stoning, interest being haram, polygamy).. then they would think twice about bagging it..
[/QUOTE]
True. There is always meaning behind what Islam prescribes. Sometimes it may seem as though on the surface certain Islamic elements don't quite add up, but if you dig deeper into the reasoning behind them, they more than make sense. They are solely based on logic and reasoning which is why I personally admire the religion so much. It is practical to the core. It, in fact, is a religion eons ahead of itself.
Sweetpie- I just saw this thread, so sorry could not reply earlier.
Actually I am not sorry, because your first post truly surprised me, since I had this negative image of you from some of your other posts. It was a good start to a clean dialogue. However your other posts confirmed my original conviction that you can be narrowminded and see only your own viewpoint while paying lip service to others' viewpoints.
You told Asif to not take pot shots but at the slightest hint of a muslim disagreeing with you, you went into an attack, even doubting Asif's claim that he is a muslim. Never mind, I've seen that happen many a time. Pakistanis cannot for some reason tolerate a muslim, especially an Indian muslim speaking out against them or Islam. In fact Asif wasn't even doing that but as usual you got into a tizzy and got your facts muddled.
On to my side of the story now - I will start by saying I will NOT degrade Islam and will stop conversing if you laugh once more at stupid jokes like the devi one. And Chotu, thank you for the offer of joining Islam. I mean it. If you meant it from the bottom of your heart that is.
Had I been born a muslim no doubt today I would have been just as devout as you all, if not more. And had any of you been born a hindu you would have talked like me. No don't gasp- trust me you wouldn't have run to covert to Islam as soon as you could walk, no one does.
Which means of course that human beings are pretty much programmed to love what their parents love. I am saying this to make you understand that there is no need to fight for our respective religions just as we don't fight over whose mom is better.
I know enough about muslims to know that 99% of them have neither the capacity nor will to understand a religion like Budhism or hinduism. Please don't think I am being nasty. I don't have the capacity to understand Islam either. It is too strict. It encourages dependence on the written word and discourages individuality. If I'm wrong bear with me, it is only my perception.
You are right by saying that hinduism is not a constructed religion like Islam. But that does not mean it does not have a constructed idea of what God, self and ego is. I think the main difference between us is that you are forbidden to try and understand God, while we are encouraged to, for only by understanding God and yourself can you realise the purpose of creation.
We believe in karma, reincarnation and nirvana. Both hindus and budhists. These concepts cannot be explained briefly. It took me years to even grasp what it was all about, and I still feel like a novice. For eg, you say Islam 'tolerates' other religions, whereas I am not supposed to tolerate you but erase the duality of 'I' am different from 'you'.
If you really want to understand what I'm saying I reccommend a most fantastic book called 'Conversations with God' by Neil Walsch. It is a huge bestseller. Neil mentions Christ, Krishna and Budha briefly. And it helped in putting the missing pieces to my puzzle. If it is not haram to read a book like this, try it, you might be surprised.
ps. someone said we should learn the good points from other religions. I can give you one good point about Islam that I like - it's emphasis on 10% of profit goes to charity, even if people don't follow it.
About voluntary conversions- I am not going to speak about Islam since I do not have any facts and figures, but I did read somewhere that Budhism is the fastest growing religion in the US. Now Budhism does not have a formal conversion system so no records are kept. YOu want to become one - fine. Same with hinduism. There are numerous gurus who have thousands of followers.
The Dalai Lama is in NY right now on a sell out US trip. There was write up in the NY times a day or two ago about exactly this, so check it out if you're interested.
I too am interested to know if Islam is the fastest growing religion not because of birth rate but because of voluntary conversion by non muslims, if anyone can provide a link.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by suroor_ca02: *
Jihad is not what "terrorists" are doing. Jihad can be managing ur anger, jihad is trying to be tolerant of things that u cant stand it etc.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly!
If everyone would please use "Qital" for military struggle or war, instead of "Jihad", which means struggle more in the internal sense, that would be a good start. Will post some other things once I look em up. I know how everyone likes references here. smile
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
Sweetpie- I just saw this thread, so sorry could not reply earlier.
Actually I am not sorry, because your first post truly surprised me, since I had this negative image of you from some of your other posts. It was a good start to a clean dialogue. However your other posts confirmed my original conviction that you can be narrowminded and see only your own viewpoint while paying lip service to others' viewpoints.
You told Asif to not take pot shots but at the slightest hint of a muslim disagreeing with you, you went into an attack, even doubting Asif's claim that he is a muslim. Never mind, I've seen that happen many a time. Pakistanis cannot for some reason tolerate a muslim, especially an Indian muslim speaking out against them or Islam. In fact Asif wasn't even doing that but as usual you got into a tizzy and got your facts muddled.
On to my side of the story now - I will start by saying I will NOT degrade Islam and will stop conversing if you laugh once more at stupid jokes like the devi one. And Chotu, thank you for the offer of joining Islam. I mean it. If you meant it from the bottom of your heart that is.
Had I been born a muslim no doubt today I would have been just as devout as you all, if not more. And had any of you been born a hindu you would have talked like me. No don't gasp- trust me you wouldn't have run to covert to Islam as soon as you could walk, no one does.
Which means of course that human beings are pretty much programmed to love what their parents love. I am saying this to make you understand that there is no need to fight for our respective religions just as we don't fight over whose mom is better.
I know enough about muslims to know that 99% of them have neither the capacity nor will to understand a religion like Budhism or hinduism. Please don't think I am being nasty. I don't have the capacity to understand Islam either. It is too strict. It encourages dependence on the written word and discourages individuality. If I'm wrong bear with me, it is only my perception.
You are right by saying that hinduism is not a constructed religion like Islam. But that does not mean it does not have a constructed idea of what God, self and ego is. I think the main difference between us is that you are forbidden to try and understand God, while we are encouraged to, for only by understanding God and yourself can you realise the purpose of creation.
We believe in karma, reincarnation and nirvana. Both hindus and budhists. These concepts cannot be explained briefly. It took me years to even grasp what it was all about, and I still feel like a novice. For eg, you say Islam 'tolerates' other religions, whereas I am not supposed to tolerate you but erase the duality of 'I' am different from 'you'.
If you really want to understand what I'm saying I reccommend a most fantastic book called 'Conversations with God' by Neil Walsch. It is a huge bestseller. Neil mentions Christ, Krishna and Budha briefly. And it helped in putting the missing pieces to my puzzle. If it is not haram to read a book like this, try it, you might be surprised.
ps. someone said we should learn the good points from other religions. I can give you one good point about Islam that I like - it's emphasis on 10% of profit goes to charity, even if people don't follow it.
[/QUOTE]
Let me reply to you point by point. However, I will preface by saying that your post is a cheap potshot at Muslims and at Islam because although you make a concerted effort to mask your ambivalence towards my faith, it's not easy to see past the syrupy words disguised to make you sound like an open-minded individual. So please spare us.
As far as Mr. Asif is concerned, he is a hypocrite and everyone on GS is very well aware of it. The man is full of hot-headed thoughts about (for or against, that isn't the point here) Islam and neglects to back his statements with substance, and on the rare occassion that he does, his arguments are laughably weak and even unrelated at times to the original discussion. However, be that as it may. Let's move on...
You speak of not degrading Islam. Let's not be hypocritical. All one has to do is read your quoted post and see the numerous negative assumptions you have made about Islam. So be it if it makes you feel better. No skin off my back.
99% of Muslims don't have the capacity to understand Hinduism or Buddhism you say. Where did THAT come from? I won't even grace this remark with an answer.
...and your point again was?
:)
sweetpie, the problem with Islam is exactly that it doesn't allow you to pick and choose. That's why Bhudaism and Hinduism are far more flexible and desirable. They don't put restraints on your spirituality like Islam does.