I do not know why, maybe after sometime, I will be able to get to a conclusion regarding the difference between fundamentalism and extremsim. I somehow like to believe that fundamentalists are different from the extremists. For example, as much as I would like to say that Jamaat-e-Islami is a fundamentalist organisation, it is in no way an extremist one. There is one interesting comment that strengthened my view and that was that, Jammat has never indulged in 'violent intolerance ’ of others that is the hallmark of most of the extremist outfits. Whatever it did could be characterised as falling under ‘civic intolerance’ of others…I would like to believe that the sectarian outfits in Pakistan are infact extremist.How do you guys draw the distinction or is there any difference as such?
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How do you guys draw the distinction or is there any difference as such?
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i think the word "fundamentalist" came into play when a bunch of essays were published, around the early 1900s, by British and American evangelists who were trying to determine which churches were genuinely following the Christian doctrines as opposed to those that were not. i think that's how, originally, 'fundamentalist' came to be associated with Bible thumpers. However if we apply it to Muslims - isn't anyone who believes in the 'fundamentals' of Islam, a fundamentalist ? That would make me a fundamentalist. i define 'extremists' to be more violent in nature, willing to utilize militant means to gain their objectives. So any terrorist organization is automatically extremist. All extremists are probably fundamentalists (because they believe they are following the fundamentals of their faith) but not all fundamentalists are extremists.
That's my opinion anyhow.
LS, where did you grow up? Did you go to college in Pakistan. If you did you will not be posting any thing like
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as much as I would like to say that Jamaat-e-Islami is a fundamentalist organisation, it is in no way an extremist one
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or
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Jammat has never indulged in 'violent intolerance ' of others that is the hallmark of most of the extremist outfits
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.
Torture and violence is as much of a second nature to Jamat as much eating and drinking is to you and me. I am ceratin that many of the folks who have attended higher learning institutes in Pakistan can attest to that.
When I was at UET, I joined MSA offshoot of QSF...I was not only threatened but has witnesed the violence of Jamat.
I think the question rather than what, should be why. And consequently all the pain, torture and religious hypocrasy would be one step closer to being solved.
Wasn’t QSF an offshoot of PSF?....so you must have been there around 87-88, nice to have a UETian at GS.
I agree, Jamaat especially in UET and PU can easily be termed as an extremist student body. Their tactics was very harmful for all those students which where on the left and center. But during that time there where other elements of right and center which where very extremist as well. UET had hardly 10 or 15 members of NSF, but before Jamaat even knew about them, QSF and PSF had already beaten a few of them. So I think being extremist cannot be attributed to Jammat only. In Karachi, in an annual session of NSF at DMC, APMSO was played the role of an extremist body.
So what I am saying is that extremism cannot be labeled on religious parties only.
Re: Religious Fundamentalism and Extremism
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*Originally posted by lost soul: *
Jammat has never indulged in 'violent
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First things first, jamaat's student group, jamiaat killed one of my family friends in vold blood in broad day light in DMC, by dragging him out fromunder the car he was hiding to avoid being caught in the crossfire between NSF and Jamiaat. The jamiat goon had put his foot on the guy's neck and shot him point blank, this promising doctor and only son died after being in coma for a few days. So please dont tell me jamaat has not engaged in violence and oppression.
Jamiaat was known to attack ppl with laathis and knives at National College in Karachi who did nto agree with them.
in 1989, at a student show by the class of 91 where some of my cousins were, jamiaat told ppl that they were going to stop that show at any cost because of their issues with songs and stuff, that one eve NSF, PSF, APMSO and all other student groups patrolled the auditorium's premises with machine guns so the show could go on.. when jamiaat said they will stop teh show at all costs all others said, that they wills top jamiaat at all costs, jamiaat goons surveyed the area and left.
now as far as fundamentalist vs extremist, i agree one can be a fundamentalist without hurting others..they may nto like others they may think others are on teh wrong path but they will not actually let that turn into actions that will cause damage to others. but it is easier to turn fundamentalists in extremists than others. all fundamentalists may not be extremists but majority, almost all extremists will be fundamentalistin my opinion
Thanks KAleem and Fraudiya for bringing that up. The question was more about fundamentalism and extremism.Maybe I did not bring in the right example. However, the debate about Jamate Islami and the fact that it has indulged in violence is no secret to anyone.
Now, let me make this clear without any offence to anyone,the words..' violent intolerance' and civic intolerance were used by one leading authority and that was what I deliberately deleted. Then Jamat being more fundamentalist than extremist is something that i read about here and there in the writings of western scholars. What gave them the idea, I don't know much about that.
I have seen bloody clashes in my university at KU and I know what you are talking about. Just try to understand the context. Its not always about student politics. I was talking more from the point of view of national politics..and maybe theirrole has been assessed from that level. If I know all the answers,why would i even bring that up?
Oh, I never wanted it to be a thread on JAmaate Islami. Khair, it was more about the fact that Jamaat has often changed its stance with regard to various issues in order to enter the governemnt. THe student politics doesn't factor in ...But please feel free to clarify more points...I will be greatful.
The JI is relatively less extremist than other groups losty, it does particpate in the democratic process and see's nothing wrong with the democratic process over the more extreme groups who reject the concept of democracy as a whole. Perhaps the Barelvi JUP might be considered more fundamentalist and less extremist?
Extremism implies violence being preferred over peaceful means..so I'd imagine the distinction should be evident..and is important..
so extremism and fundamentlism are not one and the same, fine, i can buy that. but as i noted earlier, i believe majority of extremists are fundamentalists, there are exceptions ofcourse we have heard about these religious extremists who were involved ion non religious activities, but there may be fewer of those. the vast majority of extremists is filled with fundamentalists.
Either way both groups doesnt matter what religion or what society they are from deserve to be shot or tortured in unmentionable ways for the crimes they have inflicted on the peoples within their societies and the hatred they preach.
A name is a name (no i am not gonna quote shakespear) but the actions and words matter. You can call them extremists, neo-nazis, the KKK, facists you name it. The thing that needs to be curbed is their influence. The differences are irrelevant if they continue to do what they please and influence others to follow a similar path.
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*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
LS, where did you grow up? Did you go to college in Pakistan. If you did you will not be posting any thing like or .
Torture and violence is as much of a second nature to Jamat as much eating and drinking is to you and me. I am ceratin that many of the folks who have attended higher learning institutes in Pakistan can attest to that.
When I was at UET, I joined MSA offshoot of QSF...I was not only threatened but has witnesed the violence of Jamat.
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jammat is much less voilent then APMSO in karachi university