Red Areas

Re: Red Areas

Since when greater liberty and individual freedom means having kids from wed-lock?

Also, traditional family is a curse since when? What traditional family curse you are talking about? Care to elaborate.

You have too many grey areas in your post, try to give more explaination…freedom and individual creativeness is not related to any family style.

Re: Red Areas

No body promotes “abstinence from sex” as spirituality, its the out-of-wed-sex which is bad and urged to stay away from, this is common Muslim concept of morality.

Re: Red Areas

This is a hoax that individual has to be free from family to be creative, past history is full of greats who lived a “family life”.

Re: Red Areas

Nepotism/corruprion, authoritarianism, dynastic rule, resistence to change, non-creativeness/non-productiveness, intellectual lethargy, etc. are the direct consequence of the rigid social structure and family bonds...

For a Western man individaul is primary and group secondary....the group exists for the indivdual not the individual for the group...Western concept of self-realization/success is rooted in individualism i.e. the right of the individual to act and think independently...Eastern concept of self-realization is rooted in communitariansm and tradionism...i.e. only those are considered successful who marry, raise children, and make families... and follow what ancestors instructed....that is why Western societies are intellectually so fertile and productive and Eastern societies so sterile and non-productive...

Re: Red Areas

Under General Zia, the government tried to crack on the centuries old sex trade in Heera Mandi and similar places in other Pakistani cities.

All that resulted however, was that since the customers could no longer access Pakistani whores, the mafias imported large numbers of Bangladeshi girls by promising them domestic maid jobs and instead forcing them into the sex trade. These girls were incredibly exploited and treated basically as slaves, as opposed to the Pakistani whores who willingly plied their trade.

Fauzia Saeed's book on Heera Mandi , Taboo, contains an excellent analysis of the government's efforts to crack down on prostitution.

She concluded
1) There is a cultural notion that blame lies only on the prostitutes themselves, so the police did not seek to arrest and prosecute the men who paid for sex
2) Because no attempt was made to reduce demand for the sex trade, cracking down on Pakistani prostitutes simply led to organized crime mafias stepping in to run sex rings based on exploiting foreigners
3) The police themselves were corrupt, and would solicit sex from prostitutes as a bribe to get out of arresting them
4) Often important figures in General Zia's government, and later governments, would visit prostitutes and so they undermined police efforts.

The net result is that even in Heera Mandi today, officially the girls only dance. This makes it difficult for the police to step in. The sex part is plied well out of sight where it is difficult to provide proof that zina is taking place.

The men go to Heera mandi and claim they just spent the time watching dancing.

The problem is that demand must be addressed. Pakistanis hide from the fact that pakistani society is very highly sexually charged and that there is a strong demand for the sex trade. Dr Saeed wrote that the only way to cut out prostitution is to target the men who use prostitute - kill the demand, and the supply will go away.

However, she thinks this is unlikey to happen as policies are made on the incorrect assumption that existence of prostitutes drives demand; rather than the reality which is that the demand for prostitutes keeps the supply of them going.

Re: Red Areas

In history phases of higher creativity/innovativity have coincided with phases of greater liberty…why was Athenian Society so creative unlike the Spartan Society…and why most of the innovations occurred during 16th Century onwards…a period of increasing social and political emancipation?

Re: Red Areas

LOfD: I don't know what "Athenian" or "Spartan" mean, but if you think Pakistan has not progressed much and think that 'traditional family' thingie is holding Pakistan then for an example, you can look at India and China where they have not totally given up "family", but they have progressed too.