Interesting.
Maybe I am missing something here, but the list contain the present day sects like Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Deobandi etc., right?
So are we to assume these are listed but with a different name?
Could someone please explain how and why the Ahmadyya sectt came to be declared non-muslim? I mean if Ahmadi people are saying that there will be a prophet after Muhammad than they are going against the basic dogma of Islam. If that is not the case then why declare them non-muslim? Please try to keep your answers short and to the point.
Thank you
[quote]
Originally posted by mufakkar:
**Could someone please explain how and why the Ahmadyya sectt came to be declared non-muslim? I mean if Ahmadi people are saying that there will be a prophet after Muhammad than they are going against the basic dogma of Islam. If that is not the case then why declare them non-muslim? Please try to keep your answers short and to the point.
Thank you**
[/quote]
"why declare them non-muslim?"
What are the conditions of being a Muslim?
What must happen before anyone can call themself a MUSLIM? Yes, he should recite kalima(there is no GOD but ALLAH and Mohammad(saw) is his prophet) first and then believe in Quran, angels, the books, the prophets before Mohammad(saw)...etc. And then follow the teachings of Mohammad(saw) to stay on the straight path... in order to stay good Muslim.
Follow the straight path:
"And verily this (i.e. Allah’s commandments mentioned in the previous two verses 151 and 152) is my straight path, so follow it, and follow not (other) paths, for they will separate you from His path. This He has ordained for you that you may become Al- Muttaqoon ( the pious-see V2:2) " Verse # 153, Surat
So, how can this be that person who recites kalima testifying and beliving in Mohammad and following his teachings and Quran which was revealed on him and person who follows teachings(one of the fundamental being, obedience to Imperial British Government..etc.) of Mirza Ghulam and recites his "kalima," and what not, how can these two people be considered MUSLIMs when only one of them is fitting the criteria(according to Quran and sunnah and recitation of kalima...etc.) of BEING CALLED a Muslim?
Qadiyaanis have their own kalima, their own prophet to follow, their own "DIS-interpretation" of the "quran," based on conjectures and meanings which suit their cult.
They are free to believe what they do, but at the same time they MUSt not use ISLAMs name to preach their "prophet's" teachings. When they say, that they have "ISLAMIC" teachings and "their" QURANIC interpretation is right, then there is a problem and everything goes against the teachings of Mohammad(saw) and quranic principles from there.
There is no short answer to your question whatever way you look at it.
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: "DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH", THEY SAY "WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS" VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur'an-2:11-12]
[quote]
Originally posted by Serial Guppy:
**
Qadiyaanis have their own kalima, their own prophet to follow, their own "DIS-interpretation" of the "quran," based on conjectures and meanings which suit their cult.
**
[/quote]
mind saying their kalma? I like to see what you got from yer so called X rated sites..
dude , babbling is easy ..get your facts straight..
Their kalma is same as ours..Their Quran is same..as far Mirza ghulam ahmed is concerned he preaches the same teaching of Prophet Muhammed (SAWS), and yes I'm aware that there are some controvercial topics that can lead to alot disagreements but we are no one to call other ppl as non muslims..
Allah knows the best
[This message has been edited by sherrybaba (edited April 26, 2002).]
I am not suprised this coming from a Shia.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
So, are Jews and Christians nonmuslims or Muslims? Duh!
Teachings of Mirza Ghulam ARE NOTHING compared to teachings of our prophet Mohammad(saw). Mirza Ghulam is NOTHING compared to Prophet Mohammad. You shias claim to be “lovers of albeit,” yet this BIG insult coming from you against our Prophet MOhammad(saw). Unbelievable!!!
We are not stoping them from preaching their dogma, they are free to preach. But with their own names, their own qurans and without confusing people into believing that they are preaching “sunni” islam/same islam which was revealed on MOhammad and Mirza is only making things better. If mirza’s teachings are SOO good and true, why do they need teachings of Mohammad(saw) to back them up in order to fool innocent people to CONVERT to qadiyaniyaat from “muslims” sunnis/shias??? THINK!
If I quote from his books, you wouldn’t believe either so whats the point? Hell you deny it when people quote from shia’s own books… qadiyaanioon ki to door ki baat hai.
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AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: “DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH”, THEY SAY “WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS” VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur’an-2:11-12]
heh..you are so phunnny and tooopid..why bringing shiasm.
why dont you just respect other sects and try to understand their point of view without blindingly copy pasting from kachra sites..
I’m aware of so mnay sites that actually questions the “authencity” of your hadiths and everyone is aware of the facts that hadiths arent accurate whatever contridicts the quran should be discarded.
For your info I never insulted our holy Prophet(SAWS),apni taraf say uranay mein bohot masah aata hey eh,all I said that Mirza ghulam ahemd preached Prophet Muhammed(saws) teachings, could be right or the wrong way since their interpretations are different from ours. I cant comment anymore..
Again learn to respect other sects wont harm you..
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Aur haan jab quote karoun gain unki kitaboun say to apnay aap ko hero nahee samajna..
Let's look at some of Mirzas prophecies in his own words so that we may determine his claims.
"To Judge my truthfulness or lies, there is no better test than my prophecies."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 288)
"Let it be known to unbelieving persons that my truthfulness or falsehood will be judged by my prophecies. There is no other touchstone for it."
(Aina-e-Kamalat-i-Islam, P. 288)
"It is not possible that the prophecies of Prophets are delayed."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 5)
"To turn out a liar in his own prophecy is biggest disgrace of disgraces."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 382)
The actual prophecies:
Prophecy concerning Multiple Marriages and many Children.
"Indeed God has given me the good news that I shall have numerous children from blessed women, whom I shall marry after this revelation."
(Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 5, P. 58)
"In February 1886, I made a declaration after receiving revelation from God that He gave me good news of marriages after this declaration and soon I shall marry women of good omen and virtue and to me will be born children from them."
(Tabligh-i-Risalat, Vol. 1, P. 89)
Mirza Ghulam made this statement when he was 46 years old. The fact is that he did not marry anyone after this prophecy. FALSE PROPHECY.
Prophecy about Marriage to a Virgin and a Widow.
Mirza Ghulam has written:
"It is God's intention that He will bring two ladies in my wedlock. One will be virgin and the other widow. Therefore, this inspiration that is related to Bikr (virgin), it has been fulfilled and, presently by the grace of God, I have four sons from this wife. I am still waiting for the fulfillment of the inspiration regarding widow."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 201)
Mirza Ghulam never married a widow. FALSE PROPHECY.
Prophecy Concerning Long Life.
Mirza Ghulam declared to have received wahi (revelation) concerning his lifespan:
"Enemies wish for my death and prophecise about it. God has, however, given me the good news that I shall live for eighty (80) years or more."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 239; Mawahib-ur-Rahman, P. 21)
Mirza Ghulam Qadiani died when he was sixty eight (68) years old. FALSE PROPHECY.
Prophecy Concerning his Death in a Holy City.
Mirza Ghulam had stated:
"I will die either in Mekkah or Medina."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 2, P. 105; Tadhkira, P. 591)
Mirza Ghulam did not ever see Mekkah or Medina. He died in the city of Lahor, Pakistan; his body was moved and buried in Qadian. FALSE PROPHECY.
Mirza Ghulam used to say that cholera or plague is the sign of Allah(SWT)'s wrath on mankind for their wrong doing! It is fitting that his last words were the admission that he had been stricken with the disease he was so fearful of. The witnesses present at his bed side recorded:
"The night his holiness fell ill, I was sleeping in my room. When his illness grew severe, they woke me up. I went over to his holiness and found him in great pain. He addressed me saying: 'I have been stricken with cholera.' After this, he did not utter a single intelligible and coherent word till he died on Monday, after ten O'clock in the morning."
(Hayat-i-Nasir, P. 14)
"Huzoor (Mirza Ghulam) could not talk two hours before death. Dr. Mirza Yaqoob Baig and Dr. Syed Mohammad Hussei Shah were the attending physicians. Huzoor asked for paper and wrote on it: 'I have too much dryness. I can't talk.' and some other words which could not be read."
(Al-Fazl, Vol. 25, No. 274)
"As his condition became precarious, we stayed by him and continued treatment, but his pulse stopped by 10:15 A.M., on the 26th May, 1908 he breathed his last."
(Al-Hakam, Mary 28, 1908)
Work it out for yourselves!!!
Thank you Sholay,
Sherry, you are not worthy of ANY civilized discussion. Read my reply again and try to make sense out of it. I didn’t bring shias in I just gave an example, a freaking example. And please keep your self from personally attacking members, can’t you discuss things without personally attacking other members?
“For your info I never insulted our holy Prophet(SAWS),apni taraf say uranay mein bohot masah aata hey eh,all I said that Mirza ghulam ahemd preached Prophet Muhammed(saws) teachings, could be right or the wrong way since their interpretations are different from ours. I cant comment anymore..”
Yes, you did insult the prophet in an indirect way. Read this: “as far Mirza ghulam ahmed is concerned he preaches the same teaching of Prophet Muhammed (SAWS)” is that so? He taught to stay loyal to christians and jews and british imperial government which was killing Muslims at that time? WOW thats very same as Prophet Mohammads teachings. You know when ever Qadiyaanis debates have started, TRUE faces of people have come out, ALWAYS. And yours did, in very clear way. Your last line is pretty obvious, how can you comment, when you don’t have any knowledge of their beliefs and what not?
We respect them as PEOPLE but not when they mock Islam and present their tales to other people as being “ISLAM” which mainstream people follow. That is wrong and deceptive and SHOULD NOT BE DONE.
“Aur haan jab quote karoun gain unki kitaboun say to apnay aap ko hero nahee samajna..”
Oh I never do. but tum bhi roona na shuru kar dena jub jawab nahi ho ga tumarey pass un quotes ka.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
And its not your indian movie singing contest where I would consider my self a hero, keep that mentality and stay in that mentality don’t think everyone is like you. Wesey, are you TRYING to be a HERO around here with your empty cheap shots?
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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
AND WHEN IT IS SAID TO THEM: “DO NOT MAKE MISCHIEF ON THE EARTH”, THEY SAY “WE ARE ONLY PEACE-MAKERS” VERILY, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO MAKES MISCHIEF, BUT THEY PERCEIVE NOT"-[Qur’an-2:11-12]
But the series of revelations (wahee) ended with our Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)since he was the Last Prophet, so how do Ahmadi people claim to be muslim? I mean what is the basis of thier claim to Islam?
There is a lot of qadianies at this forum and some of them are moderators therefor they very often delete messages which asks to painful questions regarding the qadianies, while they let the qadianies insult the Quran, the Profeth (PBUH) and his companions.
I myself have had this experience with the qadiani moderators.
I will try once again with the risk of getting my post deleted.
First of all to "zalim" you are referring to 73 sect of Islam defined by a journalist of some unknown Lahori newspaper. Who was/is this guy? never heard of him or most of the "sects" which is only a list of some of the ideas wich can be found in mainstream Sunni and Shia followers no matter wether they are Deobandi, Barelvi, Jaffria or anything else.
Your list doesent provide a single proof of existense of any sect but rather some of the toughts which can be listed as beeing debatted in each and every direction of Islam.
Regarding your reference to the profeth(PBUH) and the hadith " ...they will be like me and my companions. "
This Hadith is a proof that the "73 trd sect" existed during the profeths time otherwise Islam wouldent have existed for more than 1400 years.
Now my question is, where was qadianism for the last 1400 years ? Your "religion" has existed less than 150 years.
Why is there no mention about your "messiah" mirza ghulam ahmad in the Quraan or any hadith?
You qadiani people never explain why it is obliged to you to have a pact with nonmuslims such as the british. Is it because they bought or even invented mirza ghulam and granted him and his followers protection like they do today as well?
I have seen a video from one of your gatherings in Canada where your reincarnated leader mirza tahir postulates that anyone who dosent believe in him is a kafir, he dident say anyone who dosent belive in Allah or our beloved profeth (PBUH). They must obviously be secondary in his world he comes first according to himself.
( I´ve heard exactly the same claims from the mouth of Tahir ul Qadri from Minhaj ul quraan.Astaghfirullah. Anyone who wants proof of that can obtain the video from a member of the minhaj board in their respective country. The video is lecture given by qadri in Pakistan where he tells about his dreams and revelations, for a long time the video was only circulating between exclusive members of minhaj, and was not available for ordinary people.)
Can any of the qadianies in this forum answer why most of mirzas "prophecies" never came trough ? Sholay gave you few examples if you answer those I have a lot more examples to give.
As I mentioned in the begining the qadiani censorship at this board deleets messages which are to directly and painful to answer so I have tried not to "insult" the qadianies in hope of not getting my post censored.
Assalamualaikum wr. wb.
I Just found it,
I don’t know this is true or not, but for me it is very interesting
You can click here:
or
http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/index.html http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/sunni/index.html http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/shia/index.html http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/islam/sufi/index.html
reply for Zalim
fisrtly the list that you have 'compiled is so outrageously outdated that most of these so called sects are not in existence and derived from the khwarijites (saltiya,najadat, hafsiyah) who have erred from the true path of islam anyway.
in fact the khwarijites are not truly classed as muslims.
how about hanafi, maliki, shafi, hanbali, jamat i islami, deobandi, naqshbandi, and the non muslim druze, yazidi, bahai, bohra etc. you have not even covered these.
You have mentioned one or two but that is not enough and please stop trying to publicise your fazool sect/religion or whatever it is (a product of the west)
In response to your 73rd sect the ahmadiya, you are speaking nonsense as there is no way you people are even counted as muslims.
where did you cut/paste this list from the ahmadiya weekly?
[quote]
Originally posted by saimahasnain:
**reply for Zalim
In response to your 73rd sect the ahmadiya, you are speaking nonsense as there is no way you people are even counted as muslims.
**
[/quote]
Who gives you the right to call someone a Non-Muslim? Don't go around believing stuff which you have been told, it helps to do your own research. How can you even say that Ahmadis are not "counted as muslims"? Have you ever met one yourself, which made you make such a judgement about them.
Who gives you the right to call someone a Non-Muslim? Don't go around believing stuff which you have been told, it helps to do your own research. How can you even say that Ahmadis are not "counted as muslims"? Have you ever met one yourself, which made you make such a judgement about them.
bismah:
my faith gives me the right to defend the truth and our imam, muftis, country and all muslims say that ahmadis are not muslim so who are you to tell me what i can or cannot say.
yes i have met one, who was only interested in promoting their religion and corrupting decent people, trying to convert christians by showing them leaflets etc.
and i do make my own judgements first i was told, then i researched and judged for myself and that is what you should also do
I thought the post was about the 73 sects of Islam? No?!
yes ththe post is on the 73 sects of islam, the problem is in qadianis claimng to be the 73rd or whatever, therefore bring themselves into our religion.
the only reason they do this is so that they can preach to muslims and convert them to their religious sect.
why dont they just proclaim themselves as a seperate religion and get on with it? as do bahais, probably because they would get nowhere like that.