Question regarding Christianity

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Question regarding Christianity

ohh ....ok

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

I'm going to put this situation straight...InshaAllah
I have a refutation for this book....infact I have this book in my house.....watch this space.

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

I don't wanna hijack this thread ... so I'm starting a new one ... 'From Facts to Fiction'

Tennis star Sania Mirza and former Pakistan cricket captain Shoaib Malik to marry
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Re: Question regarding Christianity

^ wah wah... nou soo choohay kha kay billi hajj ko chali...

you have already done the hijacking part.

Let ppl form their own opinions for once... the origional poster asked for some history of christianity and how all the new things crept into the religion. I provide him with a book which he can read and form his own opinion, or alternatively ignore my suggestion if he so chooses. I dont understand why you had to go after the book i provided. Do you think every other muslim is so dumb that they need your guidence to decide wot to read and wot to ignore?

If you didn't like the book i provided, you could've provided another one which you think provides better answers to the origional poster's questions. Now go back and check your posts. Tell me if any of them contributed anything to the thread opener's query?

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

thanks for the book chachooo …

and hareem :topic:

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

And I'm only showing that the book is incorrectly phrased and therefore doesn't answer the original question.

For the thread the best answer so far has come from Anwar Qureshi ... It was Paul the self-acclaimed apostle of Christ (AS) who was responsible for the major part of going astray.

Here are the reasons:
1) He claimed that Jesus (AS) was talking to him and that he died on the cross
2) He refuted Peter and John in their orthodox approach
3) He was responsible for saying that the law was abolished
4) He intorduced the idea that Christ (AS) willingly sacrificed himself, when the canonical gospels show differently.
5) He was the first to bring the mission to the Gentiles
6) He restricted marriage of the priest to one wife
7) He claimed that the mission of Jesus (AS) was being brought to the whole world.

He did this after he 'miraculously' turned a leaf and repented after he had killed thousands of Christ following Jews.

This happened around the years 60 - 100 AD

The sealing of this process of going astray and the complete formualtion of the Christian church did happen around the mid fourth century ... most dates say the council of nicea around 325 AD, that is true but there were also other councils either side of this main council.

For centuries people were debating the nature of Christ and for some time the Unitarian Chrisitians gained control of Rome.

In a nutshell ... the true Chrisitians (followers and disciples) who fled from the Palestine area settled in other areas, some were sought down and slaughtered others survived. During the time of the councils many books were destroyed and others were deemed apochriphatic. Some 'forbidden' books still exist under lock and key in the Vatican today. Some people believe these forbidden books are very old and claim that Jesus (AS) was only a man.

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

Nonsense

[quote]
Some of the belief can be reconstructed from the Dead Sea Scrolls but even then, we do not know if they are the initial versions of the "Hadith" of Jesus, or of a Divine message delivered to him by an angel.
[/QUOTE]

The dead sea scrolls do not mention ANY of Jesus' own teachings.

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

And similarly it can be said that all teachings of Islam done today are the teaching of the present teachers - same logic.

Paul was taught by Jesus' disiples who NEVER had to reprimand him for wrong teachings because he taught what they were taught by Jesus himself.

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

There was NEVER any disagreement about the teaching as can be seen by the very first synod/conference/meeting according to Acts 15 where all parties were present.

[quote]
3) He was responsible for saying that the law was abolished
[/quote]

Conformed to what Jesus taught.

[quote]
4) He intorduced the idea that Christ (AS) willingly sacrificed himself, when the canonical gospels show differently.
[/quote]

The gospels does not show Jesus to be unwilling but rather went of free will but realizing the pain and suffering that lay ahead.

[quote]
5) He was the first to bring the mission to the Gentiles
[/quote]

Wrong. Peter was the first.

[quote]
6) He restricted marriage of the priest to one wife
[/quote]

He actually did not! He preferred that leaders of the church should not divorce and preferrably only have one wife, yes.

[quote]
7) He claimed that the mission of Jesus (AS) was being brought to the whole world.
[/quote]

Jesus himself claimed this.

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

Christianity is directly couple with Judaism. Most of the early converts continued to visit Jewish synagogues as well as keeping small house meetings. The Jewish convert remained Jews and many continued keeping their feasts and other traditions intact. In time the orthodox Jews forced them out of their sinogogues.

Christians were for the first time called "Christians" when Barnabas and Saul preached in Antioch some 30+ years after Jesus Christ was taken away according to Acts.1

[quote]
now obviously Hazrat Isa(RA) preached the teachings of Islam
[/quote]

There is unfortunately no proof that Jesus taught the teachings of Islam. What is factual, is that MANY of what Jesus taught contradicts Islam.

[quote]
so if ppl followed his teachings at what stage did they start considering him as the son of GOD
[/quote]

Jesus himself frequently equated himself with God. Immediately after he was taken away, the disciples preached him as Saviour/Messiah of the world - see Acts.2. Paul actually prosecuted and killed many of the disciples because of these preachings.

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Re: Question regarding Christianity

There was disagreement from the get go. After the disappearance of Jesus (AS) the people were miffed. Paul and Barnabas were preaching to the Gentiles, people were arguing with that. Peter passified the people saying that the Gentiles had received the spirit. [To me that means enlightenment].
Later Barnabas and Paul split up over a dispute about John being called with them on the mission. [Acts 15:36] There were other disputes later still and the writings of Paul are written in the form of refutations. So this means there were alternative views around at the time.

You will see that Paul was a very witty man. He could easily talk himself out of trouble.

Acts 23:6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead." 7 When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. 8 (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.) Are these the actions of a man guided by God? Would it not be possible for a Jew who was Roman citizen to use his position as a defence against the mobs? More can be said about this later. However, such a man cited that he received a word from Christ (AS), the only witnesses were people no one knew and there were no independent accounts of his alleged visitation.

Jesus (AS) told his disciples to get ready for a fight. They could only find one sword. He went to pray on the Olive grove. They were going to fight, but it was stopped ... He told his companions to stay awake and look out and Judas was a bad man, right? But if crucifixion of Christ (AS) was such a good thing, then why is Judas seen as such a negative character, surely he facilitated and expedited the process of human atonement? The reason why he is perceived as bad is because simply is was bad. People should not plot to kill or have agents of God arrested.

Really? ... I didn't know this ... please provide a reference.

Again please provide reference ... I thought in his own words he says he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.

Midnight Snack
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Re: Question regarding Christianity

Nonsense. Paul only started to be prominent more than 30 years after Jesus' ascention. The only theological differences were discussed on the first synod (Acts 15) and resolved unanimously as God's Spirit led them. Theological differences between Paul and the other Apostles NEVER occurred throughout the New Testament writings.

[quote]
Later Barnabas and Paul split up over a dispute about John being called with them on the mission. [Acts 15:36]
[/quote]

Misrepresentation of the facts (or maybe intentially done?). On the previous mission Mark John, (family of Barnabas and not one of the original disciples but one still learning to be a missionary) showed little staying power (Acts.13v13) and Paul did not want to take a quitter with him. Barnabas then also stayed behind. Mark John later impressed Paul and Paul voiced his appreciation to his help and presence (Col.4v10; 2Tim.4v11). There were again NO theological differences.

[quote]
However, such a man cited that he received a word from Christ (AS), the only witnesses were people no one knew and there were no independent accounts of his alleged visitation.
[/quote]

So difficult to argue when one does not know the Bible, hey? Acts.9v10-19 states that all that happened to Paul was INDEPENDANTLY confirmed to Ananias by the Lord Himself in a vision.

[quote]
Jesus (AS) told his disciples to get ready for a fight.
[/quote]

Jesus NEVER told his disciples to get ready for a fight. Please state CLEAR scripture for your statement. Jesus knew about the persecution that will follow of his followers. He merely pointed out to his disciples (Luk.22v37-38) that they (and Christians in general) are permitted to protect themselves when attacked. That's the reason he immediately rebuked them when they wanted to protect him (his disciples obviously misunderstood his earlier words).

[quote]
They could only find one sword. He went to pray on the Olive grove. They were going to fight, but it was stopped ...
[/quote]

Again misrepresentation of the facts. There were two swords among his disciples not just one. Jesus NEVER told them they are to fight for his protection. It can be seen CLEARLY from Jesus' prayer immediately after the discussion about the swords that he was commited to go through with his crucifiction.

[quote]
But if crucifixion of Christ (AS) was such a good thing, then why is Judas seen as such a negative character, surely he facilitated and expedited the process of human atonement?
[/quote]

Illogical reasoning. Just because Satan sometimes does a thing that eventually works out for good does not make Satan "good"! Judas is perceived "bad" because he let himself be under the influence of Satan (in Jesus' words).

[quote]
Really? ... I didn't know this ... please provide a reference.
[/quote]

Acts.10

[quote]
Again please provide reference ... I thought in his own words he says he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.
[/quote]

Jesus was sent to preach firstly to God Almighty's "holy" nation and secondly the saving grace to the whole world. Jesus last command to his disciples were to "Therefor go and make disciples of all the nations..." (Matt.28v19)