Re: Qibla Awal Ummul Qura(Khana Kaba)
^ i wonder then what masjid qiblatain is all about… 
Re: Qibla Awal Ummul Qura(Khana Kaba)
I wonder why u dont accept qurani ayaat who has built tht masjid ?Kisi sahaba aur Nabi nay ke thi History is not a deen mere bhai
Re: Qibla Awal Ummul Qura(Khana Kaba)
ok then, Quranic verse tells us that the qibla was changed....
so what was the qibla before and after the change, according to ur understanding of the Quran????
Re: Qibla Awal Ummul Qura(Khana Kaba)
So you don't believe in Islamic History.
Re: Qibla Awal Ummul Qura(Khana Kaba)
Salamun Alaikum
I am new to this forum, but I have initiated a discussion on the very same topic on another forum and I am appending hereunder whole the discussion and hope it may be of interest of all the members.
I request the members to consider the same as an acadamic discussion and not to take it personal. In my opinion the perpose of these forums is to share knowledge and not to fight each others on beleives.
Iltemase Dua
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-18-2006 04:16 AM[/RIGHT]
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Qiblae Awwal
Salamun alaikum,
We the muslims claim that Baitul Muqaddas is our 1st Qibla. Can anyone tell me when it was devised? Which Nabi A.S. has proposed it as Qibla? Does any revelated book e.g. Holly Quran, Tora, Injeel or Zaboor has any reference in this regard?
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-19-2006 06:41 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun alaikum,
We the muslims claim that Baitul Muqaddas is our 1st Qibla. Can anyone tell me when it was devised? Which Nabi A.S. has proposed it as Qibla? Does any revelated book e.g. Holly Quran, Tora, Injeel or Zaboor has any reference in this regard?*
Salaam Alikom
In Surrah Al-Baqara v.143, we read:
"The fools among the people will say: “What has turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?” Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. "
**Which Qiblah the Muslim use to pray to before Makkah ? The prophet peace be up on him did not start praying to Jerusalem by him self unless he was guided and ordered by Allah S.W T .!!! ???
Imam Al-Bukhari reported from the narration of Al-Bara’ (may Allah be pleased with him) that, “Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) performed Prayer while facing Jerusalem for sixteen or seventeen months. But he (peace and blessings be upon him) wished that he would face the Kabah. When Allah commanded him to face the Kabah, the first Prayer he performed facing the new qiblah was an `Asr (Afternoon) Prayer, which he prayed in congregation. Then, a man from those who performed this Prayer with him left and passed by some people praying in the mosque, who were bowing at that moment. **
This verse refers to that historic event, when just over 16 months after Hijra, a revelation came, changing the Qibla from Masjid Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem to the Bait-Allah, the House of Allah in Makka,. The change of Qiblah was a very significant move. Jerusalem, as we all know, is a city of great importance to Muslims, Jews and Christians. By facing Jerusalem as the first Qiblah, the young Muslim Ummah linked itself with the long series of prophets that included Nabi Ibrahim and Nabi Isa.
By turning towards Makka as the new Qiblah, the Muslims could assert themselves as a new nation with its own distinct centre, and still be linked to the most ancient prophetic traditions. It was of course, in Makka that the first House of Worship was built by Nabi Ibrahim. Makka was also the city which from which many were exiled because of their faith. If we look at Makka on the map of the world, we will see that it is situated in a central position, on the Arabian Peninsula, which itself lies midway between Africa, Asia and Europe. It is at the crossroads of major continents, and also of great civilisations
Another important result of this change of Qiblah from Jerusalem to Makka, was that it became a great test of faith, to separate the true believers from those whose loyalties were really outside the Muslim community.
“We see the turning of your face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn you to a Qiblah that will please you. Turn then your face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever you are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allلh unmindful of what they do.”
So where do you think the prophet peace be up on him used to face to pray before he was guided to face to Ka’bah???
…
wa salaam
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-20-2006 06:32 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
In Surrah Al-Baqara v.143, we read:
"The fools among the people will say: "What has turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. "
Which Qiblah the Muslim use to pray to before Makkah ? The prophet peace be up on him did not start praying to Jerusalem by him self unless he was guided and ordered by Allah S.W T .!!! ???
I have just asked that 'when Baitul Muqaddas was designated as qibla and in which Nabi Alehis salam's tenore it was announced by Allah S.W.T. to face towards it for the purpose of salat and other relegious performances'
Mabsoot
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-20-2006 09:31 PM[/RIGHT]
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Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah,
Yeah, seems the brother did not understand the question 
No Problem..
I do not know when it was changed, you will need to ask a Muslim Scholar who has knowledge of the Quran and when the verses and Surahs were revealed.
This is the verse from Quran about the changing of Qiblah:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction”
[al-Baqarah 2:144]
It (al-Quds) was the first qiblah of the Muslims, as was reported by al-Baraa’ (may Allaah be pleased with him): the Messenger of Allaah :saw: (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed in the direction of Bayt al-Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen months. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 41 – this version was narrated by him – and by Muslim, 525).
wasalam
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-20-2006 10:51 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
I have just asked that ‘when Baitul Muqaddas was designated as qibla and in which Nabi Alehis salam’s tenore it was announced by Allah S.W.T. to face towards it for the purpose of salat and other relegious performances’
Wa salaam
Brother, The verses wasnt meant for you it was verse when the non muslim started asking why they changed the Qiblah,
I am sorry for missunderstanding.
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 01:01 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
This is the verse from Quran about the changing of Qiblah:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction”
[al-Baqarah 2:144]
Salamun Alaikum,
The ‘understanding’ of the ayat leads to think that The Prophet s.a.w.a.w. disliked the qibla which was chosen by Almighty Allah for him and He (Prophet s.a.w.a.w.) liked the Baitul Haram to be designated as qibla. Can we as a true muslim beleive on it?
Quote:
It (al-Quds) was the first qiblah of the Muslims, as was reported by al-Baraa’ (may Allaah be pleased with him): the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed in the direction of Bayt al-Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen months. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 41 – this version was narrated by him – and by Muslim, 525).
This narration shows that Prophet s.a.w.a.w has prayed for 16 or 17 months facing baitul muqadas. what about his (Prophet s.a.w.a.w) prayers before those 16 or 17 months. where did he face before Hijrah for prayers?
Regards
Danish
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 02:22 PM[/RIGHT]
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Would you mind me asking which religion you follow ?
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 03:13 PM[/RIGHT]
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Salamun Alaikum,
Brother I am just a muslim without any doubt. I have not labled myself with sects I have curiosity to know the facts and I dont hesitate to learn and have courage to accept the facts whatsoever may be against my believes.
I pray may God Almighty widen your hearts and grant you the courage to accept the facts.
Regards
DanishJu
Abu.Amirah
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 03:41 PM[/RIGHT]
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Ya Allah guide us the right way and give us knowledge so that we become closer to you and protect us from those who want to mislead us.Amin!
zarah
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 03:59 PM[/RIGHT]
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Assalamu Alaikum
:bismillah:
:salam2:
Ameen :biggrin: :biggrin:
:wasalam:
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 11:41 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun Alaikum,
The 'understanding' of the ayat leads to think that The Prophet s.a.w.a.w. disliked the qibla which was chosen by Almighty Allah for him and He (Prophet s.a.w.a.w.) liked the Baitul Haram to be designated as qibla. Can we as a true muslim beleive on it?
This narration shows that Prophet s.a.w.a.w has prayed for 16 or 17 months facing baitul muqadas. what about his (Prophet s.a.w.a.w) prayers before those 16 or 17 months. where did he face before Hijrah for prayers?
Regards
Danish*
salaam alikom Brother
With all Respect can I ask you how it would effect your Iman or our Ibadaat (worshipping Allah), the prophet peace be up on him thaught us a way to follow which his Sunnah and the Quran, people go beyond the sunnah and Quran and start asking question which in no way can increase our iman, an example where did he face before Hijrah for prayers? is this going to effect your Salaah or prayer in any way?
The ‘understanding’ of the ayat leads to think that The Prophet s.a.w.a.w. disliked the qibla which was chosen by Almighty Allah for him and He (Prophet s.a.w.a.w.) liked the Baitul Haram to be designated as qibla. Can we as a true muslim beleive on it?
How did you understand the ayat and end up to the conclusion that the prophet peace be up on him disliked something was chosen by Allah… What you trying to say here . ..and at the end you saying as Muslim could we believe on it?? Non of the companion of the prophet peace be up on him has the right to object on a matter choosen be Allah and his prophet peace be up on him …
then you ask
Could we believe in something chosen by Allah and his Prophet peace be up on him… subhaaaan Allah
and by the way there isnt in Islam any thing which go against the Facts. if you trying to show there are things wrong in Islam …then as an Advise ..if you really seeking knowledge seek knowledge in Sunnah and Quran… and leave questions like these which has no benifit to you or to any ones Iman..
Wa Allah A3lam
salaam alikom
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 04:02 PM[/RIGHT]
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Salamun Alaikum
I advise you brother to read again and again what I have posted and then comment on it. your objections are ambigous and irrelevant.
Furhter, can you tell me the meanings of sura Aale Imran verse 96:
إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِّلْعَالَمِينَ {96
Iltemase Dua
Danish
afnan
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 04:57 PM[/RIGHT]
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:bismillah:
:salam2:
our youth nowadys is crazy after video games and the stuff like that . it is haram in itself ,but i want to draw your attention to some hidden signs and its aftermath effect.
1:you closely observe each and every game ,you will find EYE only ONE EYE which is the sign of dajjal .
2: you will find massacre ,deterioration,killing,abusing and agitation ,again it is the sign of dajjal’s system.
3:in the 3rd part of HARRY POTTER ,you will see a man cladded in muslim dress wearing turban and gown as HARRY’s teacher ,but you be astonished to see him turning into a villain at the end of the game.
4: in DRIVER3 you will hear athan with background music.
a delibrate reasarch is neede ragarding this issue .
we can dissuade our youth from playing such games but firm support is needed.
it is time wasting but its psychological effects are far more worse than that.
find out more abt zionism on HARUN YAHYA website.
its psychological impact:
1: it is preparing ground for dajjal’s arrival,
2: it is extracting sympathy,tenderness;turning them into beasts, young children employ game action in thier practical life.
3:if we see “six corner star” that much frequently in games, we will no more feel hatred against it.
i retreat ,DO NOT ALLOW YOUR YOUNG ONES TO PLAY SUCH GAME .
KEEP CONSTANT CHECK ON THEM.
in my neighborhood , a lad of 13 years killed his younger sister. he cut away her head with kitchen knife simulating one of the game heros .
isn’t it horrible?
afnan
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 05:02 PM[/RIGHT]
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oops !
i was starting a new thread sorry what can i do?:biggrin:
ashah
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 05:43 PM[/RIGHT]
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:salam2:
I am totally agree with Mrmuslim.
Question for DanishJu: what is the purpose of your life?
To find out which direction did prophet Adam, Moses [pbuh] face for prayers? / And thinking of questions that not gonna help you to increase your Eman.
or
Seek forgiveness from Allah by doing his Dhikr
Please recite this every day to avoid shaiytan.
"
Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,
-
The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,
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The Allah (for judge) of Mankind,-
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From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-
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(The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-
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Among Jinns and among men.
"Mrmuslim [RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 10:22 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun Alaikum
I advise you brother to read again and again what I have posted and then comment on it. your objections are ambigous and irrelevant.
Furhter, can you tell me the meanings of sura Aale Imran verse 96:
إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِّلْعَالَمِينَ {96
Iltemase Dua
Danish*
I would prefer if you take this Question to your Imam or a well know shiekh.
Wa salaam:D
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-23-2006 02:00 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Question for DanishJu: what is the purpose of your life?
Salamun Alaikum
Brother I think the purpose of our life is to seek knowledge that leads to understand the will of God Almighty. This is in fact the ‘Ibadat’. And for us, as a Muslim, The parameters of correctness of the knowledge is Quran first and then the Hadees. Quraan is the final and absolute verdict and so the Hadees, if it is not in contradiction with Quraan. I have absolute faith that Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w has never said a single word in contradiction to Quraan but it is the people who have quoted the narrations to his (s.a.w.a.w) attribute. That is why, Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w. himself instructed the followers to compare the sayings attributed to him with the verses of Quraan and he s.a.w.a.w further said that if these are in agreement with the Quraan then adopt them otherwise throw them against the wall. So if I find any thing in contradiction with Quraan I have to investigate, analyse and then adopt or reject the same whatsoever it may have the chain of narrators.
One more thing, a very common misconception among the Muslims that Quraan is a very complicated document and one cannot understand it by himself and just to avoid the responsibility of understanding the same (which is a compulsory duty of every person) they put it on the shoulders of scholars and ulemas. Whereas Quraan itself repeatedly announce that it is made easy for those who seek understanding. Refer Maryam (19) 97, Ad-Dukhan (44) 58, Al-Qamar (54) 17,22,32,40. Do you think these ulemas will save you on the Day of Judgment when Allah s.w.t will question you why you did not adhere to his instructions? So be ware that at that time if you would say that we have followed to these so called leaders, He s.w.t. may tell you twice is the punishment to you and to your leaders also. Read sura Al-Ahzaab 67&68 abd Sura Al-Aaraaf 38.
وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّا أَطَعْنَا سَادَتَنَا وَكُبَرَاءنَا فَأَضَلُّونَا السَّبِيلَا {67}
33:67] And they shall say: O our Lord! surely we obeyed our leaders and our great men, so they led us astray from the path;
رَبَّنَا آتِهِمْ ضِعْفَيْنِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ وَالْعَنْهُمْ لَعْنًا كَبِيرًا {68}
33:68] O our Lord! give them a double punishment and curse them with a great curse.
قَالَ ادْخُلُواْ فِي أُمَمٍ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِكُم مِّن الْجِنِّ وَالإِنسِ فِي النَّارِ كُلَّمَا دَخَلَتْ أُمَّةٌ لَّعَنَتْ أُخْتَهَا حَتَّى إِذَا ادَّارَكُواْ فِيهَا جَمِيعًا قَالَتْ أُخْرَاهُمْ لأُولاَهُمْ رَبَّنَا هَـؤُلاء أَضَلُّونَا فَآتِهِمْ عَذَابًا ضِعْفًا مِّنَ النَّارِ قَالَ لِكُلٍّ ضِعْفٌ وَلَـكِن لاَّ تَعْلَمُونَ {38}
7:38] He will say: Enter into fire among the nations that have passed away before you from among jinn and men; whenever a nation shall enter, it shall curse its sister, until when they have all come up with one another into it; the last of them shall say with regard to the foremost of them: Our Lord! these led us astray therefore give them a double chastisement of the fire. He will say: Every one shall have double but you do not know.
So it is our own responsibility rather duty to seek the truth.
Iltemase Dua
Danish
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-23-2006 10:32 PM[/RIGHT]
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[quote=DanishJu]
Salamun Alaikum
Brother I think the purpose of our life is to seek knowledge that leads to understand the will of God Almighty. This is in fact the ‘Ibadat’. And for us, as a Muslim, The parameters of correctness of the knowledge is Quran first and then the Hadees. Quraan is the final and absolute verdict and so the Hadees, if it is not in contradiction with Quraan. I have absolute faith that Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w has never said a single word in contradiction to Quraan but it is the people who have quoted the narrations to his (s.a.w.a.w) attribute. That is why, **Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w. himself instructed the followers to compare the sayings attributed to him with the verses of Quraan and he s.a.w.a.w further said that if these are in agreement with the Quraan then adopt them otherwise throw them against the wall. So if I find any thing in contradiction with Quraan I have to investigate, analyse and then adopt or reject the same whatsoever it may have the chain of narrators. **
salaaam alikom
Well with all respect to you the prophet peace be upon him never said what you just said …Do you think the companion would compare the saying of the prophet peace be up on him with Quran… ??? Allah portected him from saying or doing anything wrong.. beside The hadith and the order of the prophet peace be up on him are from Allah and the prophet peace be up on him Said them with Words and IN NO WAY they can go against what is in Quran…
IN ALL OF YOUR DISCCUSSION I see more tries to find things against Quran rather than proving something. you never take a Hadith as evidence. you trying to create missunderstanding in the mind of people who are new to Islam…
.. any way I will just reminde you and my self with …
قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم: " …فإنه من يعش منكم بعدي فسيرى اختلافا كثيرا فعليكم بستني و سنة الخلفاء الراشدين المهديين ، تمسكوا بها و عضو عليها بالنواجذ و إياكم و محدثات الأمور؛ فإن كل محدثة بدعة و كل بدعة ضلالة". (رواه أبو داوود و الترمذي و قال حسن صحيح)
قال تعالى : " ومااتاكم الرسول فخذوه ومانهاكم عنه فانتهوا " . صدق الله العظيم
I hope you understand arabic if not let me know i will post it in english for you.
wa salaam
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-24-2006 12:02 AM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun Alaikum,
Brother I am just a muslim without any doubt. I have not labled myself with sects I have curiosity to know the facts and I dont hesitate to learn and have courage to accept the **facts** whatsoever may be against my believes.
I pray may God Almighty widen your hearts and grant you the courage to accept the facts.
Regards
DanishJu*
**facts whatsoever may be against my believes**
salaam alikom
hmmm ! trying to really understand… **FACT against what **the Quran or Hadith? Facts that there is doubt in Quran ? or in what th Prophet peace be up on him said ? or Fact that you trying to find something wrong with Quran? :astag: Or which facts you talking about…? please explain to me I might be dump enough that i am not following your FACTS … Facts ABOUT What?
NOTE: I am not a dump
wa salaam
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-25-2006 12:25 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
salaam alikom
hmmm ! trying to really understand… FACT against what the Quran or Hadith? Facts that there is doubt in Quran ? or in what th Prophet peace be up on him said ? or Fact that you trying to find something wrong with Quran? Or which facts you talking about…? please explain to me I might be dump enough that i am not following your FACTS … Facts ABOUT What?
NOTE: I am not a dump (
Salamun Alaikum
بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اجْتَنِبُوا كَثِيراً مِّنَ الظَّنِّ إِنَّ بَعْضَ الظَّنِّ إِثْمٌ وَلَا تَجَسَّسُوا وَلَا يَغْتَب بَّعْضُكُم بَعْضًا أَيُحِبُّ أَحَدُكُمْ أَن يَأْكُلَ لَحْمَ أَخِيهِ مَيْتًا فَكَرِهْتُمُوهُ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ تَوَّابٌ رَّحِيمٌ {12}
[Pickthal 49:12] O ye who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Ye abhor that (so abhor the other)! And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful.
وَمَا يَتَّبِعُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ إِلاَّ ظَنًّا إَنَّ الظَّنَّ لاَ يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَيمٌ بِمَا يَفْعَلُونَ {36}
[Pickthal 10:36] Most of them follow not but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do.
وَمَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنَّ الظَّنَّ لَا يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا {28}
[Pickthal 53:28] And they have no knowledge thereof. They follow but a guess, and lo! a guess can never take the place of the truth.
Iltemase Dua
afnan
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-25-2006 11:06 PM[/RIGHT]
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:salam2:
why bother ur mind with such questions, you know your present qibla thats all,brother.
Karima
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-25-2006 11:46 PM[/RIGHT]
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Asalamualikum,
Where’s Islamicfajr??? …in this discussion?
This has been an interesting discussion…may Allah shower his blessings on all of you for your efforts!!!
Sallam
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-26-2006 06:20 PM[/RIGHT]
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Dear Brother, Salamun alaikum
I have just tried to make people think upon the issues which might have been mis-understood by our predecessors. Whatever I have posted I tried to remain within the ambit of Quraanic Verses not for the reason I do not have faith on Hadeeth (Astaghfirullah) but just because I think atleast Quraan is the document authenticity of which is beyond any doubt among all the Muslims. Difference of opinions may arise on the interpretation but not on text. So if I am quoting something from Quraan and inviting people to analyze the same, then whats wrong with it. If you consider I am wrong in my understanding try to correct me. This is what the purpose of an Islamic discussion forum is. And if you just want people to say whatever you like or whatever you believe, then don’t raise the slogan “TURN TO ISLAM” or if you think Islam is only what you preach or what you understand or whatever you believe then amend the rules of the forum and take oath from all the member that they will not say anything which may differ from your opinion. And then do believe me that nobody will turn to ‘your’ version of Islam.
As for as my believe is concern, I firmly believe that Quraan is a complete charter and constitution for whole the mankind and Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w have never said any word or perform any act which may defer from the Quraanin injunctions. So whatever narrations attributed to him (s.a.w.a.w) contradicting the Quraan should be analyzed thoroughly, no matter what chain of narrators may have endorsed the same.
I assure you that Quraan is not that complicated as it has been made. Quraan itself is inviting people repeatedly by saying ‘we have made this Quraan easy to understand, so do any one seek guidance from it?”
So just tell me what ever I have written in my posts, really doesn’t invoke people to look into it? And if it does, should people be deprived of discussing the issues and seeking knowledge?
I pray to God Almighty and seek his guidance in all my deeds:
قَالَ رَبِّ اشْرَحْ لِي صَدْرِي {25}
وَيَسِّرْ لِي أَمْرِي {26}
وَاحْلُلْ عُقْدَةً مِّن لِّسَانِي {27}
يَفْقَهُوا قَوْلِي {28}
Iltemase Dua
Danish
Mabsoot
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-26-2006 07:19 PM[/RIGHT]
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assalamu alaykum,
Firstly, you sent me a Private Message, and then copy and paste it here.. not good to do that.
There is no version of Islam here, but we deal with true Islamic knowledge. Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah with understanding from pious predecessors, the scholars who understand and have spent their lives dedicated to Islam and who are **known **for their accurate knowledge.
Therefore, it is of no value for someone to start debating issues here in order to further their own confusion on to a public forum.
We try our best to be polite and allow discussion to flow, but there is a line.. and that line is crossed when someone talks about things without Islamic knowledge, or disregard for the basic rules.
You admit in previous occassions that you omit Hadith from your discussions. Yet, you say you believe in them. This is confusing. We believe in hadith 100% there is no doubt in the authentic hadith.
Unless a hadith is proven to be unauthentic we **Must **believe in it. In its entirety. For someone to come along and start pretending to be a scholar and disregard hadith because they know better, is a big sin.
Quote:
. So whatever narrations attributed to him (s.a.w.a.w) contradicting the Quraan should be analyzed thoroughly, no matter what chain of narrators may have endorsed the same.
Secondly there are **NO **hadith which contradict the sunnah, and who exactly are "we" to analyse the hadith?
You and I should not be discussing things we do not know anything about. Knowledge in ISlam is not everything from the top of your head, but from the book of Allah and the sunnah of his messenger :saw: .. People must speak with knowledge or remain silent, these issues which are clearly non-existant issues you raise, have no purpose. They are based on lack of understanding of both the Quran and the hadith.
My advice to you in the last "lunar " thread was to seek information from Islamic scholars, rather than writing here.
It is for that reason that pages full of debate over waffle is closed or deleted.
Allah Says in the Quran:
“So ask of those who know the Scripture, if you know not” [al-Nahl 16:43].
I try to be as polite as possible, but you must realise that this website is not for debating things from top of our heads. Nor do we wish people to give their own interpretations of Quranic verses. That is done by scholars who have firm knowledge, and they interpret verses from original sources of Islam in order to give accurate understanding.
We do not accept anything from people who do not talk from real Islamic Knowledge.
Infact, it is clear that Danish already has an answer formulated for his questions, you do not want an answer, but to debate. Secondly, you disregard everything that does not conform to your point of view. For example, when someone gives a hadith, you go around it and do not bother to acknowledge it. -
Wasalam.
Re: Qibla Awal Ummul Qura(Khana Kaba)
Salamun Alaikum
I am new to this forum, but I have initiated a discussion on the very same topic on another forum and I am appending hereunder whole the discussion and hope it may be of interest of all the members.
I request the members to consider the same as an acadamic discussion and not to take it personal. In my opinion the perpose of these forums is to share knowledge and not to fight each others on beleives.
Iltemase Dua
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-18-2006 04:16 AM[/RIGHT]
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Qiblae Awwal
Salamun alaikum,
We the muslims claim that Baitul Muqaddas is our 1st Qibla. Can anyone tell me when it was devised? Which Nabi A.S. has proposed it as Qibla? Does any revelated book e.g. Holly Quran, Tora, Injeel or Zaboor has any reference in this regard?
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-19-2006 06:41 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun alaikum,
We the muslims claim that Baitul Muqaddas is our 1st Qibla. Can anyone tell me when it was devised? Which Nabi A.S. has proposed it as Qibla? Does any revelated book e.g. Holly Quran, Tora, Injeel or Zaboor has any reference in this regard?*
Salaam Alikom
In Surrah Al-Baqara v.143, we read:
"The fools among the people will say: “What has turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?” Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. "
**Which Qiblah the Muslim use to pray to before Makkah ? The prophet peace be up on him did not start praying to Jerusalem by him self unless he was guided and ordered by Allah S.W T .!!! ???
Imam Al-Bukhari reported from the narration of Al-Bara’ (may Allah be pleased with him) that, “Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) performed Prayer while facing Jerusalem for sixteen or seventeen months. But he (peace and blessings be upon him) wished that he would face the Kabah. When Allah commanded him to face the Kabah, the first Prayer he performed facing the new qiblah was an `Asr (Afternoon) Prayer, which he prayed in congregation. Then, a man from those who performed this Prayer with him left and passed by some people praying in the mosque, who were bowing at that moment. **
This verse refers to that historic event, when just over 16 months after Hijra, a revelation came, changing the Qibla from Masjid Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem to the Bait-Allah, the House of Allah in Makka,. The change of Qiblah was a very significant move. Jerusalem, as we all know, is a city of great importance to Muslims, Jews and Christians. By facing Jerusalem as the first Qiblah, the young Muslim Ummah linked itself with the long series of prophets that included Nabi Ibrahim and Nabi Isa.
By turning towards Makka as the new Qiblah, the Muslims could assert themselves as a new nation with its own distinct centre, and still be linked to the most ancient prophetic traditions. It was of course, in Makka that the first House of Worship was built by Nabi Ibrahim. Makka was also the city which from which many were exiled because of their faith. If we look at Makka on the map of the world, we will see that it is situated in a central position, on the Arabian Peninsula, which itself lies midway between Africa, Asia and Europe. It is at the crossroads of major continents, and also of great civilisations
Another important result of this change of Qiblah from Jerusalem to Makka, was that it became a great test of faith, to separate the true believers from those whose loyalties were really outside the Muslim community.
“We see the turning of your face (for guidance) to the heavens; now shall We turn you to a Qiblah that will please you. Turn then your face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever you are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allلh unmindful of what they do.”
So where do you think the prophet peace be up on him used to face to pray before he was guided to face to Ka’bah???
…
wa salaam
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-20-2006 06:32 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
In Surrah Al-Baqara v.143, we read:
"The fools among the people will say: "What has turned them from the Qiblah to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both East and West; He guides whom He pleases to a Way that is straight. "
Which Qiblah the Muslim use to pray to before Makkah ? The prophet peace be up on him did not start praying to Jerusalem by him self unless he was guided and ordered by Allah S.W T .!!! ???
I have just asked that 'when Baitul Muqaddas was designated as qibla and in which Nabi Alehis salam's tenore it was announced by Allah S.W.T. to face towards it for the purpose of salat and other relegious performances'
Mabsoot
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-20-2006 09:31 PM[/RIGHT]
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Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah,
Yeah, seems the brother did not understand the question No Problem..
I do not know when it was changed, you will need to ask a Muslim Scholar who has knowledge of the Quran and when the verses and Surahs were revealed.
This is the verse from Quran about the changing of Qiblah:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction”
[al-Baqarah 2:144]
It (al-Quds) was the first qiblah of the Muslims, as was reported by al-Baraa’ (may Allaah be pleased with him): the Messenger of Allaah :saw: (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed in the direction of Bayt al-Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen months. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 41 – this version was narrated by him – and by Muslim, 525).
wasalam
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-20-2006 10:51 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
I have just asked that ‘when Baitul Muqaddas was designated as qibla and in which Nabi Alehis salam’s tenore it was announced by Allah S.W.T. to face towards it for the purpose of salat and other relegious performances’
Wa salaam
Brother, The verses wasnt meant for you it was verse when the non muslim started asking why they changed the Qiblah,
I am sorry for missunderstanding.
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 01:01 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
This is the verse from Quran about the changing of Qiblah:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction”
[al-Baqarah 2:144]
Salamun Alaikum,
The ‘understanding’ of the ayat leads to think that The Prophet s.a.w.a.w. disliked the qibla which was chosen by Almighty Allah for him and He (Prophet s.a.w.a.w.) liked the Baitul Haram to be designated as qibla. Can we as a true muslim beleive on it?
Quote:
It (al-Quds) was the first qiblah of the Muslims, as was reported by al-Baraa’ (may Allaah be pleased with him): the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) prayed in the direction of Bayt al-Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen months. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 41 – this version was narrated by him – and by Muslim, 525).
This narration shows that Prophet s.a.w.a.w has prayed for 16 or 17 months facing baitul muqadas. what about his (Prophet s.a.w.a.w) prayers before those 16 or 17 months. where did he face before Hijrah for prayers?
Regards
Danish
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 02:22 PM[/RIGHT]
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Would you mind me asking which religion you follow ?
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 03:13 PM[/RIGHT]
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Salamun Alaikum,
Brother I am just a muslim without any doubt. I have not labled myself with sects I have curiosity to know the facts and I dont hesitate to learn and have courage to accept the facts whatsoever may be against my believes.
I pray may God Almighty widen your hearts and grant you the courage to accept the facts.
Regards
DanishJu
Abu.Amirah
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 03:41 PM[/RIGHT]
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Ya Allah guide us the right way and give us knowledge so that we become closer to you and protect us from those who want to mislead us.Amin!
zarah
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 03:59 PM[/RIGHT]
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Assalamu Alaikum
:bismillah:
:salam2:
Ameen :biggrin: :biggrin:
:wasalam:
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-21-2006 11:41 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun Alaikum,
The 'understanding' of the ayat leads to think that The Prophet s.a.w.a.w. disliked the qibla which was chosen by Almighty Allah for him and He (Prophet s.a.w.a.w.) liked the Baitul Haram to be designated as qibla. Can we as a true muslim beleive on it?
This narration shows that Prophet s.a.w.a.w has prayed for 16 or 17 months facing baitul muqadas. what about his (Prophet s.a.w.a.w) prayers before those 16 or 17 months. where did he face before Hijrah for prayers?
Regards
Danish*
salaam alikom Brother
With all Respect can I ask you how it would effect your Iman or our Ibadaat (worshipping Allah), the prophet peace be up on him thaught us a way to follow which his Sunnah and the Quran, people go beyond the sunnah and Quran and start asking question which in no way can increase our iman, an example where did he face before Hijrah for prayers? is this going to effect your Salaah or prayer in any way?
The ‘understanding’ of the ayat leads to think that The Prophet s.a.w.a.w. disliked the qibla which was chosen by Almighty Allah for him and He (Prophet s.a.w.a.w.) liked the Baitul Haram to be designated as qibla. Can we as a true muslim beleive on it?
How did you understand the ayat and end up to the conclusion that the prophet peace be up on him disliked something was chosen by Allah… What you trying to say here . ..and at the end you saying as Muslim could we believe on it?? Non of the companion of the prophet peace be up on him has the right to object on a matter choosen be Allah and his prophet peace be up on him …
then you ask
Could we believe in something chosen by Allah and his Prophet peace be up on him… subhaaaan Allah
and by the way there isnt in Islam any thing which go against the Facts. if you trying to show there are things wrong in Islam …then as an Advise ..if you really seeking knowledge seek knowledge in Sunnah and Quran… and leave questions like these which has no benifit to you or to any ones Iman..
Wa Allah A3lam
salaam alikom
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 04:02 PM[/RIGHT]
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Salamun Alaikum
I advise you brother to read again and again what I have posted and then comment on it. your objections are ambigous and irrelevant.
Furhter, can you tell me the meanings of sura Aale Imran verse 96:
إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِّلْعَالَمِينَ {96
Iltemase Dua
Danish
afnan
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 04:57 PM[/RIGHT]
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:bismillah:
:salam2:
our youth nowadys is crazy after video games and the stuff like that . it is haram in itself ,but i want to draw your attention to some hidden signs and its aftermath effect.
1:you closely observe each and every game ,you will find EYE only ONE EYE which is the sign of dajjal .
2: you will find massacre ,deterioration,killing,abusing and agitation ,again it is the sign of dajjal’s system.
3:in the 3rd part of HARRY POTTER ,you will see a man cladded in muslim dress wearing turban and gown as HARRY’s teacher ,but you be astonished to see him turning into a villain at the end of the game.
4: in DRIVER3 you will hear athan with background music.
a delibrate reasarch is neede ragarding this issue .
we can dissuade our youth from playing such games but firm support is needed.
it is time wasting but its psychological effects are far more worse than that.
find out more abt zionism on HARUN YAHYA website.
its psychological impact:
1: it is preparing ground for dajjal’s arrival,
2: it is extracting sympathy,tenderness;turning them into beasts, young children employ game action in thier practical life.
3:if we see “six corner star” that much frequently in games, we will no more feel hatred against it.
i retreat ,DO NOT ALLOW YOUR YOUNG ONES TO PLAY SUCH GAME .
KEEP CONSTANT CHECK ON THEM.
in my neighborhood , a lad of 13 years killed his younger sister. he cut away her head with kitchen knife simulating one of the game heros .
isn’t it horrible?
afnan
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 05:02 PM[/RIGHT]
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oops !
i was starting a new thread sorry what can i do?:biggrin:
ashah
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 05:43 PM[/RIGHT]
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:salam2:
I am totally agree with Mrmuslim.
Question for DanishJu: what is the purpose of your life?
To find out which direction did prophet Adam, Moses [pbuh] face for prayers? / And thinking of questions that not gonna help you to increase your Eman.
or
Seek forgiveness from Allah by doing his Dhikr
Please recite this every day to avoid shaiytan.
"
Say: I seek refuge with the Lord and Cherisher of Mankind,
-
The King (or Ruler) of Mankind,
-
The Allah (for judge) of Mankind,-
-
From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws (after his whisper),-
-
(The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,-
-
Among Jinns and among men.
"Mrmuslim [RIGHT][RIGHT]08-22-2006 10:22 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun Alaikum
I advise you brother to read again and again what I have posted and then comment on it. your objections are ambigous and irrelevant.
Furhter, can you tell me the meanings of sura Aale Imran verse 96:
إِنَّ أَوَّلَ بَيْتٍ وُضِعَ لِلنَّاسِ لَلَّذِي بِبَكَّةَ مُبَارَكًا وَهُدًى لِّلْعَالَمِينَ {96
Iltemase Dua
Danish*
I would prefer if you take this Question to your Imam or a well know shiekh.
Wa salaam:D
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-23-2006 02:00 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Question for DanishJu: what is the purpose of your life?
Salamun Alaikum
Brother I think the purpose of our life is to seek knowledge that leads to understand the will of God Almighty. This is in fact the ‘Ibadat’. And for us, as a Muslim, The parameters of correctness of the knowledge is Quran first and then the Hadees. Quraan is the final and absolute verdict and so the Hadees, if it is not in contradiction with Quraan. I have absolute faith that Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w has never said a single word in contradiction to Quraan but it is the people who have quoted the narrations to his (s.a.w.a.w) attribute. That is why, Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w. himself instructed the followers to compare the sayings attributed to him with the verses of Quraan and he s.a.w.a.w further said that if these are in agreement with the Quraan then adopt them otherwise throw them against the wall. So if I find any thing in contradiction with Quraan I have to investigate, analyse and then adopt or reject the same whatsoever it may have the chain of narrators.
One more thing, a very common misconception among the Muslims that Quraan is a very complicated document and one cannot understand it by himself and just to avoid the responsibility of understanding the same (which is a compulsory duty of every person) they put it on the shoulders of scholars and ulemas. Whereas Quraan itself repeatedly announce that it is made easy for those who seek understanding. Refer Maryam (19) 97, Ad-Dukhan (44) 58, Al-Qamar (54) 17,22,32,40. Do you think these ulemas will save you on the Day of Judgment when Allah s.w.t will question you why you did not adhere to his instructions? So be ware that at that time if you would say that we have followed to these so called leaders, He s.w.t. may tell you twice is the punishment to you and to your leaders also. Read sura Al-Ahzaab 67&68 abd Sura Al-Aaraaf 38.
وَقَالُوا رَبَّنَا إِنَّا أَطَعْنَا سَادَتَنَا وَكُبَرَاءنَا فَأَضَلُّونَا السَّبِيلَا {67}
33:67] And they shall say: O our Lord! surely we obeyed our leaders and our great men, so they led us astray from the path;
رَبَّنَا آتِهِمْ ضِعْفَيْنِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ وَالْعَنْهُمْ لَعْنًا كَبِيرًا {68}
33:68] O our Lord! give them a double punishment and curse them with a great curse.
قَالَ ادْخُلُواْ فِي أُمَمٍ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِكُم مِّن الْجِنِّ وَالإِنسِ فِي النَّارِ كُلَّمَا دَخَلَتْ أُمَّةٌ لَّعَنَتْ أُخْتَهَا حَتَّى إِذَا ادَّارَكُواْ فِيهَا جَمِيعًا قَالَتْ أُخْرَاهُمْ لأُولاَهُمْ رَبَّنَا هَـؤُلاء أَضَلُّونَا فَآتِهِمْ عَذَابًا ضِعْفًا مِّنَ النَّارِ قَالَ لِكُلٍّ ضِعْفٌ وَلَـكِن لاَّ تَعْلَمُونَ {38}
7:38] He will say: Enter into fire among the nations that have passed away before you from among jinn and men; whenever a nation shall enter, it shall curse its sister, until when they have all come up with one another into it; the last of them shall say with regard to the foremost of them: Our Lord! these led us astray therefore give them a double chastisement of the fire. He will say: Every one shall have double but you do not know.
So it is our own responsibility rather duty to seek the truth.
Iltemase Dua
Danish
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-23-2006 10:32 PM[/RIGHT]
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[quote=DanishJu]
Salamun Alaikum
Brother I think the purpose of our life is to seek knowledge that leads to understand the will of God Almighty. This is in fact the ‘Ibadat’. And for us, as a Muslim, The parameters of correctness of the knowledge is Quran first and then the Hadees. Quraan is the final and absolute verdict and so the Hadees, if it is not in contradiction with Quraan. I have absolute faith that Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w has never said a single word in contradiction to Quraan but it is the people who have quoted the narrations to his (s.a.w.a.w) attribute. That is why, **Rasool-Allah s.a.w.a.w. himself instructed the followers to compare the sayings attributed to him with the verses of Quraan and he s.a.w.a.w further said that if these are in agreement with the Quraan then adopt them otherwise throw them against the wall. So if I find any thing in contradiction with Quraan I have to investigate, analyse and then adopt or reject the same whatsoever it may have the chain of narrators. **
salaaam alikom
Well with all respect to you the prophet peace be upon him never said what you just said …Do you think the companion would compare the saying of the prophet peace be up on him with Quran… ??? Allah portected him from saying or doing anything wrong.. beside The hadith and the order of the prophet peace be up on him are from Allah and the prophet peace be up on him Said them with Words and IN NO WAY they can go against what is in Quran…
IN ALL OF YOUR DISCCUSSION I see more tries to find things against Quran rather than proving something. you never take a Hadith as evidence. you trying to create missunderstanding in the mind of people who are new to Islam…
.. any way I will just reminde you and my self with …
قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم: " …فإنه من يعش منكم بعدي فسيرى اختلافا كثيرا فعليكم بستني و سنة الخلفاء الراشدين المهديين ، تمسكوا بها و عضو عليها بالنواجذ و إياكم و محدثات الأمور؛ فإن كل محدثة بدعة و كل بدعة ضلالة". (رواه أبو داوود و الترمذي و قال حسن صحيح)
قال تعالى : " ومااتاكم الرسول فخذوه ومانهاكم عنه فانتهوا " . صدق الله العظيم
I hope you understand arabic if not let me know i will post it in english for you.
wa salaam
Mrmuslim
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-24-2006 12:02 AM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanishJu
*Salamun Alaikum,
Brother I am just a muslim without any doubt. I have not labled myself with sects I have curiosity to know the facts and I dont hesitate to learn and have courage to accept the **facts** whatsoever may be against my believes.
I pray may God Almighty widen your hearts and grant you the courage to accept the facts.
Regards
DanishJu*
**facts whatsoever may be against my believes**
salaam alikom
hmmm ! trying to really understand… **FACT against what **the Quran or Hadith? Facts that there is doubt in Quran ? or in what th Prophet peace be up on him said ? or Fact that you trying to find something wrong with Quran? :astag: Or which facts you talking about…? please explain to me I might be dump enough that i am not following your FACTS … Facts ABOUT What?
NOTE: I am not a dump
wa salaam
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-25-2006 12:25 PM[/RIGHT]
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Quote:
salaam alikom
hmmm ! trying to really understand… FACT against what the Quran or Hadith? Facts that there is doubt in Quran ? or in what th Prophet peace be up on him said ? or Fact that you trying to find something wrong with Quran? Or which facts you talking about…? please explain to me I might be dump enough that i am not following your FACTS … Facts ABOUT What?
NOTE: I am not a dump (
Salamun Alaikum
بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اجْتَنِبُوا كَثِيراً مِّنَ الظَّنِّ إِنَّ بَعْضَ الظَّنِّ إِثْمٌ وَلَا تَجَسَّسُوا وَلَا يَغْتَب بَّعْضُكُم بَعْضًا أَيُحِبُّ أَحَدُكُمْ أَن يَأْكُلَ لَحْمَ أَخِيهِ مَيْتًا فَكَرِهْتُمُوهُ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ تَوَّابٌ رَّحِيمٌ {12}
[Pickthal 49:12] O ye who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Ye abhor that (so abhor the other)! And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful.
وَمَا يَتَّبِعُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ إِلاَّ ظَنًّا إَنَّ الظَّنَّ لاَ يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَيمٌ بِمَا يَفْعَلُونَ {36}
[Pickthal 10:36] Most of them follow not but conjecture. Assuredly conjecture can by no means take the place of truth. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do.
وَمَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنَّ الظَّنَّ لَا يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا {28}
[Pickthal 53:28] And they have no knowledge thereof. They follow but a guess, and lo! a guess can never take the place of the truth.
Iltemase Dua
afnan
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-25-2006 11:06 PM[/RIGHT]
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:salam2:
why bother ur mind with such questions, you know your present qibla thats all,brother.
Karima
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-25-2006 11:46 PM[/RIGHT]
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Asalamualikum,
Where’s Islamicfajr??? …in this discussion?
This has been an interesting discussion…may Allah shower his blessings on all of you for your efforts!!!
Sallam
DanishJu
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-26-2006 06:20 PM[/RIGHT]
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Dear Brother, Salamun alaikum
I have just tried to make people think upon the issues which might have been mis-understood by our predecessors. Whatever I have posted I tried to remain within the ambit of Quraanic Verses not for the reason I do not have faith on Hadeeth (Astaghfirullah) but just because I think atleast Quraan is the document authenticity of which is beyond any doubt among all the Muslims. Difference of opinions may arise on the interpretation but not on text. So if I am quoting something from Quraan and inviting people to analyze the same, then whats wrong with it. If you consider I am wrong in my understanding try to correct me. This is what the purpose of an Islamic discussion forum is. And if you just want people to say whatever you like or whatever you believe, then don’t raise the slogan “TURN TO ISLAM” or if you think Islam is only what you preach or what you understand or whatever you believe then amend the rules of the forum and take oath from all the member that they will not say anything which may differ from your opinion. And then do believe me that nobody will turn to ‘your’ version of Islam.
As for as my believe is concern, I firmly believe that Quraan is a complete charter and constitution for whole the mankind and Rasoolallah s.a.w.a.w have never said any word or perform any act which may defer from the Quraanin injunctions. So whatever narrations attributed to him (s.a.w.a.w) contradicting the Quraan should be analyzed thoroughly, no matter what chain of narrators may have endorsed the same.
I assure you that Quraan is not that complicated as it has been made. Quraan itself is inviting people repeatedly by saying ‘we have made this Quraan easy to understand, so do any one seek guidance from it?”
So just tell me what ever I have written in my posts, really doesn’t invoke people to look into it? And if it does, should people be deprived of discussing the issues and seeking knowledge?
I pray to God Almighty and seek his guidance in all my deeds:
قَالَ رَبِّ اشْرَحْ لِي صَدْرِي {25}
وَيَسِّرْ لِي أَمْرِي {26}
وَاحْلُلْ عُقْدَةً مِّن لِّسَانِي {27}
يَفْقَهُوا قَوْلِي {28}
Iltemase Dua
Danish
Mabsoot
[RIGHT][RIGHT]08-26-2006 07:19 PM[/RIGHT]
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assalamu alaykum,
Firstly, you sent me a Private Message, and then copy and paste it here.. not good to do that.
There is no version of Islam here, but we deal with true Islamic knowledge. Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah with understanding from pious predecessors, the scholars who understand and have spent their lives dedicated to Islam and who are **known **for their accurate knowledge.
Therefore, it is of no value for someone to start debating issues here in order to further their own confusion on to a public forum.
We try our best to be polite and allow discussion to flow, but there is a line.. and that line is crossed when someone talks about things without Islamic knowledge, or disregard for the basic rules.
You admit in previous occassions that you omit Hadith from your discussions. Yet, you say you believe in them. This is confusing. We believe in hadith 100% there is no doubt in the authentic hadith.
Unless a hadith is proven to be unauthentic we **Must **believe in it. In its entirety. For someone to come along and start pretending to be a scholar and disregard hadith because they know better, is a big sin.
Quote:
. So whatever narrations attributed to him (s.a.w.a.w) contradicting the Quraan should be analyzed thoroughly, no matter what chain of narrators may have endorsed the same.
Secondly there are **NO **hadith which contradict the sunnah, and who exactly are "we" to analyse the hadith?
You and I should not be discussing things we do not know anything about. Knowledge in ISlam is not everything from the top of your head, but from the book of Allah and the sunnah of his messenger :saw: .. People must speak with knowledge or remain silent, these issues which are clearly non-existant issues you raise, have no purpose. They are based on lack of understanding of both the Quran and the hadith.
My advice to you in the last "lunar " thread was to seek information from Islamic scholars, rather than writing here.
It is for that reason that pages full of debate over waffle is closed or deleted.
Allah Says in the Quran:
“So ask of those who know the Scripture, if you know not” [al-Nahl 16:43].
I try to be as polite as possible, but you must realise that this website is not for debating things from top of our heads. Nor do we wish people to give their own interpretations of Quranic verses. That is done by scholars who have firm knowledge, and they interpret verses from original sources of Islam in order to give accurate understanding.
We do not accept anything from people who do not talk from real Islamic Knowledge.
Infact, it is clear that Danish already has an answer formulated for his questions, you do not want an answer, but to debate. Secondly, you disregard everything that does not conform to your point of view. For example, when someone gives a hadith, you go around it and do not bother to acknowledge it. -
Wasalam.