Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Yeah
even Big-Bang was punjab's conspiracy

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

NLI was turned into a regiment, maybe it was not counted as part of army before? Is Azad Kashmir regiment counted as part of Pakistan army?

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

NLI was an army regiment but due to kargil, it got "integrated" into SSG. This is what I heard from different sources. But considering that SSG get bombed too, whatever the hell does it do for NLI..

Btw, baltistanis, gilgitis [N. Areas] aren't technically kashmiri are they???

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

No, NLI was paramilitary pre-Kargil but was made a regiment under PA after their performance at Kargil. They are not SSG. The Pakistani state at least considers the people of northern Areas as Kashmiris, which is why the region has not been officially made part of Pakistan.

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Yes Khek, NLI was not regular Army before Kargil and like other paramilitary units it was commanded by regular Army men at NCO/JCO and officer level while troops mostly belonged to local areas. In Kargil days its command was bloated with more Army regular representation and the famous Capt Karnal Sher Khan NH was also in NLI on secondment while he was originally from Sindh Regiment. After the war owing to NLI's good performance it was awarded a regular regiment status.
And, Azad Kashmir Regiment is a regular infantry regiment of Pakistan Army.

Shriek, actually it may have been the other way round, i.e. NLI was at the forefront, while supported and enhanced by regular Army troops and officers, and those regulars may have included some SSG element for special task operations. As such NLI was not integrated into SSG during Kargil.

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Now what's the deal with someone from Swabi (Kernal Sher Khan) belonging to the Sindh regiment? Does he count as a "Sindhi" in PA's statistics?

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

You said this a while back...

I mentioned that Musharaf happens to be a Mohajir; to which you replied that he may be a Mohajir, but he is part of the Punjabi dominated establishment, thus he is part of the system.

And hence I surmised that that must mean that you believe joining the Army means becoming part of the Punjabi dominated system, which is resented by Mohajirs.

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

No that has nothing to do with regional or ethnic roots. After independence the British Army system of raising regional regiments was abandoned and the infantry regiments inherited although had names like Frontier Force, Baloch, Punjab etc they were now part of Pakstan's national Army and so belonged to all citizens who could be recruited from anywhere in Pakstan, esp as far as officers are concerned. For troops it's a bit diff because the recruitment is done at the Regimental Centres and usually for eg with Infantry since the FF Regt Center is in Abbotabad, troops being recruited there would belong to that area mostly rather than from say Gujrat or Rwp (where Punjab Regt may recruit) or even Hyderabad (where Sindh Regt recruits).
For officers its all uniform, a pool, i.e. after passing out from PMA when they are awarded the parent unit of commission a Pathan officer is as likely to get commissioned into the FF Regt as in Punjab, Baloch or Sindh Regt, or an Urdu speaking officer is as likely to get commissioned into the Punjab Regt as in FF, Baloch or Sindh Regt.
This is a very good system. Esp since the regimental names are only a tradition, heritage or identification now rather than territorial functioning as was a few centuries ago. Now it's just Pakistan Army and its diff regiments. Though with rich heritage and traditions.

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Can't find the link for this article but it is very relevant.

Pakistan's garrison state legacy

By Ishtiaq Ahmed

The News, August 04, 2007

In his seminal work, The Garrison State: The Military, Government and Society in Colonial Punjab, 1849-1947 (New Delhi and London: Sage Publications, 2005) Tan Tai Yong, a prominent historian of the colonial Punjab era, at the Institute of South Asian Studies, National University of Singapore advances the thesis that Pakistan, not India, is the heir to the garrison state legacy of British colonial rule. A garrison state is one which relies heavily on its fortification and military prowess to ward off internal and external threats.

The author asserts that when the British conquered the Punjab in 1849, the policy adopted was to excluding Punjabis, especially Sikhs, from military duty because it was feared that they could be a threat to their interests. However, the 1857 uprising led by north Indian purbiyas forced a change of policy, and the Sikhs as well as Muslims from the western districts were mobilised to crush that rebellion.

The 1857 trauma made the British fully aware of the fact that they ruled India by the force of arms and could hold on to it also by the same token. Therefore they must build a strong and formidable military apparatus. However, given the harsh climate and other difficulties a large fighting force comprising European troops could not be maintained permanently. The British Indian Army had to be recruited locally.

Moreover, from the second half of the 19th century the fear of a Russian advance into India began to haunt British strategic planning. Because of its geographical location, Punjab became the natural frontline province from where the British took part in the Great Game against perceived Russian and later German threats.

A theory of 'martial races' was devised to raise a strong, but dependent army. The groups chosen were: The Khalsa Sikh Jats, especially those of the Manjha region around Amritsar, Muslims tribes such as the Ghakkars, Janjuas, Awans and Tiwanas of the Salt Range tract including Rawalpindi, Jhelum and Shahpur districts, smaller numbers of Hindu Jats of Rothak and Hissar in southeastern Punjab (present-day Haryana), and some Dogras from Kangra.

The three major groups faced acute economic hardship in their districts -- overpopulation and land fragmentation in the Manjha, scarce and poor quality land in the rain-fed broken hills of the Salt Range, and recurring famines in the southeastern districts where the Hindu Jats were located. Moreover, historical enmity existed between the Sikhs and the Muslims of the Salt Range because Maharaja Ranjit Singh had inflicted defeat on their elders and curtailed their power. These three groups did not share strong fraternal bonds and were recruited in different companies and regiments but with the overall unified command of British officers.

Besides such careful selection of 'class' and 'military districts' the British evolved a sophisticated system of rewarding those connected to the army. Regular pay and allowances, land grants, especially in the canal colonies of western Punjab, pensions and other economic benefits were available to the soldiers as well as those who helped recruit them.

These included the tribal and clan leaders, village headmen, zaildars, sufedposhs and other men of influence in the rural areas. Titles such as khan bahadur, nawab and even sir were conferred on them. During World War I Punjab supplied some 60 per cent of the total soldiers raised from India and during War II one-third.

Through the Land Alienation Act of 1900, the British made sure that its rural support base in the Punjab was safeguarded against moneylenders and rising urban entrepreneurs. In political terms too a rural bias was present in the electoral reforms of 1919 and 1935. The constituencies were formed in a manner that members from the rural areas constituted the majority. The right to vote was limited by property and land tax qualifications.

Simultaneously the government maintained the threat of cancellation and confiscation of titles and land grants if their bearers did not cooperate in supplying soldiers to the Indian Army and in containing trouble in their areas. A conflict with the Sikhs broke out in the 1920s over the control of gurdwaras. It resulted in some casualties but was resolved with the orthodox Sikhs being given the charge of their holy places.

The political linchpin of British rule in the Punjab was the Unionist Party founded by Sir Fazl-e-Hussain (died 1936) and later led by Sir Sikander Hayat Khan (died 1942) and supported by Sir Chhottu Ram (died 1945), the leaders of Hindu Jats. The Punjab Unionist Party enlisted the support of the Sikh Khalsa Nationalist Party representing loyalist Sikh landlords. This coalition ruled the Punjab. Nationalist and revolutionary forces found little support in the Punjab. Therefore despite many efforts the Congress Party failed to develop a mass base.

However, the Unionist model began to crumble and the garrison state crack when the Muslim League entered Punjab politics in the 1940s with its slogan of Pakistan. Hitherto the Punjab Muslim League was a minor player. It enjoyed the support mainly of the Muslim intelligentsia and some urban professionals. From 1943 onwards it began loudly to blame the successor of Sir Sikander, Sir Khizr Tiwana, of betraying Muslim interests by opposing the demand for Pakistan.

More importantly, it joined hands with the British in the war effort, offering to use its influence to help recruit soldiers from the towns and cities of Punjab and from a social base that included castes hitherto not included among the martial races. Supply of soldiers from the rural areas, the stronghold of the Unionists, had been declining as World War II dragged on. The British increasingly began to recognise the Muslim League as the main representative of Muslims of India.

Moreover, challenges to Khizr from disgruntled colleagues resulted in splits and desertions in the Unionist Party. By the election of 1946 the former Punjab Unionist Party had virtually become the Punjab Muslim League as almost all the Muslim landlords had joined the latter.

Thus when Pakistan came into being in August 1947, the Muslim League was no longer the party of the erstwhile Muslim intelligentsia or progressive reformers who wanted to create an egalitarian Islamic utopia; it had become a party of conservative landlords. Moreover, the Pakistani Punjab emerged as the most powerful province and the sword arm of the new state. The Pakistani army was essentially a Punjabi army. Both such factors combined to pass on the legacy of the garrison state to Pakistan, argues Tan Tai Yong.
The book is a painstaking and meticulous research undertaking based on extensive use of government documents. Such works deserve to be translated into Urdu and made available to the wider public.

The author is a visiting senior research fellow at the Institute of South Asian Studies (ISAS), National University of Singapore on leave from the University of Stockholm. Email: [email protected]

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

:rotfl: Good one.

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Thanks Zakk. A must reading!

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Excellent analysis!

While I am not denying that Punjab is Pakistan's largest province in terms of population, we must not forget that it is a relative majority. The representation in the army is just the tip of the iceberg. If an outsider looks at Pakistan both online and off, the country appears to be Punjabistan + a smattering of Urdu speakers. I am not talking in a derogatory sense, but lets get real here? How many Sindhis, Baluchis, Pakhtuns and others are represented here on gupistan? How many Pak. concerts feature songs that are not in urdu or punjabi?

i do think that it is a two way street where other Pakistani groups need to step up and be included in the Pakistani spectrum, however it would fair to say that they have been less than welcomed.

As for the recruitment issue, I think that the best of Pakistan should be selected, irrespective of provincial, ethnic affiliation. If the ethnic shifts to a particular group, then so be it. Somehow I doubt that the near dominance of Punjabis in the armed forces would continue under these circumstances.

Re: Punjab’s dominance in the Army being reduced

Respected Brother

This information is probably incorrect. During 18th and 19th Centuries, the Indian Sub-Continent was having two types of Armies, Territorial and Non Territorial or Native. Territorial Armies were those of Princely States and Jagirs which were called for help by the British East India Company. The armies from other areas without any Raja, Maharaja, Nawab etc were called Non Territorial or Native Armies.

At that time, the fisrt regular infantry set up in India was The Punajb Infantry, composed of Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus. It was established in 1761 at Trichnopoly. The only misconception is that prior to 1857, these Native Armies were on the Pay Roll of East India Company. However after the War of Independance, these came under British Crown.

From 1797 till 1849, the Sikh Army under Ranjeet Singh and his succesors helped the British East India Company many a times till the 1st Sikh War in 1845-46 and Second Sikh War in 1848-49.

Regards.