Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
Don’t you people anything better to do on a Saturday? What did democracy ever achieve in Pakistan?
All these people who are so enraged by this ‘emergency’ annoy me SO MUCH! What are they trying to promote with all these protests? this so called dictator did better for your country then any democratic leader ever did!
But hey you go on and ‘save Pakistan’ with your protests! 
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
Its okay sweetheart you or your family isnt the one being illegally arrested, kidnapped and tortured into submission by Musharraf's men so you really wouldn't understand. You may now go and finish watching your american idol.
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
Wohhh way to go with the personal attack! Calm down!
I see thats what you guys say to people who have opposing views! And what do you know about my family? NOTHING! so think before you go posting stuff!
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
if your father, husband, brother, son or any other family member was picked up by rogue intelligence agencies, detained without any reason and trace and brutally tortured, you wouldn’t be asking that question.
and no, personally I can’t think of anything better to do on a Saturday than to stand with and support those who fight for their fundamental rights that have usurped by the fascist dictator.
what has military dictatorship ever achieved in Pakistan apart from the separation of Bangladesh, drugs and weapons influx during the Afghan “jihad”, a civil war in the North, and now seemingly daily suicide bombings? BB and NS might have been corrupt but at least there were no suicide bombings in Islamabad in their times. only the dictator can claim credit for introducing this phenomenon to Pakistan.
almost all of the darkest chapters of Pakistan’s history have been written when our blessed military was in power.
people like you annoy me very much too. if a seemingly educated person doesn’t recognize the need for democracy, I think they should be allowed to surrender their right to choose their leader. however, such people should have no say on whether I should have the right to choose my leader or not. the most unfortunate thing is that people who live in and enjoy all the benefits of democracy abroad are the ones who don’t appreciate the necessity of democracy. such people should not be given citizenships of their adopted countries because they clearly have no understanding of what makes their adopted countries work.
these protests are designed to bring attention to the barbaric actions of Pakistani “security” forces against innocent judges, lawyers, students, human rights workers, political workers and common civilians.
let us not spout hollow cliches.
we will.
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
why restore all judges?? that is not justice.
any judge who has taken oath on PCO, now or in the past must not return.
I agree. these PCO traitors should be sacked when the REAL Supreme Court is rightfully restored under the able leader of the REAL and ONLY Chief Justice of Pakistan, the honorable Justice Iftikhar M. Chauhdry.
Dogar, the traitor, should be charged with contempt of court for disobeying the direct orders of the REAL CJP and his bench.
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
can my thread here: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=269569 be merged with this thread or vice versa?
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
Cheegum, are you going to be there on Saturday?
Re: Salman Ahmed leading newyork rally
This thread is not about singing, this is about the demonstration against martial law.
Too bad in such critical times instead of uniting for the country we bring up meaningless stuff to support our differences.
and yeah he is not the best vocalist but he is using his music for some amazing work and making a name for Pakistan.
true. GS is one of the biggest and mature online communities of Pakistanis. if people here can't grasp the importance and gravity of the issues we face, then we are truly doomed as a people.
Salman Ahmed's vocals are not the issue here - his principled stand on the issue of martial law is. and he is completely right and deserves the support of Pakistanis - not disdain for his art or any side issue.
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
the following article should provide some colour to those who believe that once our noble military takes over, rivers of milk and honey flow:
How generals come and go
link: The News International: Latest News Breaking, World, Entertainment, Royal News
Friday, November 16, 2007
Dr Muzaffar Iqbal
Born into a feudal family of Bengal, educated at Elphinstone College, trained by the colonisers at Sandhurst Academy, inducted into the British Indian army and awarded a prestigious military award for his loyalty to his overweening white masters, Major-General Iskander Mirza – Pakistan’s first military ruler – staged his daring entrance into the high offices of the state as the last governor-general of Pakistan in August 1955. He inaugurated an era of one-man rule and a form of dictatorship in guise by introducing the idea of “controlled democracy”. The racist premise behind this idea was that Pakistanis were not really ready for full democracy yet.
For all his military training and awards, however, he was a pseudo general – he had left the army in 1926 to join the Indian Political Service. At the time of partition, he was appointed as the first defence secretary of Pakistan. In May 1954, he became the governor of the troubled East Pakistan and within the first few days of his governorship, he ordered the arrest of hundreds of outspoken critics of the government and sowed the seeds of everlasting hatred towards the central government in the hearts of East Pakistanis.
Between October 1954 and August 1955, Iskander Mirza served as interior minister and when Governor-General Ghulam Muhammad became too ill to perform his duties, he became acting governor-general on August 7, 1955 – a position he would never relinquish, save to become the first president of Pakistan after the adoption of the 1956 Constitution.
A power-hungry psychopath, Mirza dominated all aspects of political life of the country and played the role of a kingmaker taking full advantage of the mutual mistrust of politicians. He was instrumental in splitting the Muslim League and creating a king’s party, the Republican Party. During his four years as the head of state, four prime ministers came and left. But even with all this, Mirza felt threatened by the reorganisation of the Muslim League and the alliance of the Awami League with Punjabi groups in 1958. As a last, desperate act to hold on to power, he abrogated the 1956 Constitution on October 7, 1958, dissolved the central and provincial assemblies and enforced the first martial law in the country, retaining presidency for himself but appointing Ayub Khan as martial law administrator and supreme commander of the armed forces. Thus entered a real general into the political scene – General Ayub Khan. This real general proved far smarter than Mirza and on October 27, 1958, he dispatched him to England where he would die on November 15, 1969, as a wretched outcast. Now began the real general’s rule.
This real general was, however, not content with remaining a mere general; he elevated himself to the rank of the president and gave himself the title of field marshal – his field of marshalling being none other than Pakistan itself. He introduced the idea of basic democracy and gave the country his own constitution in addition to holding elections to be re-elected as president. Despite all his ‘marshalling’, this general seems to be a gentleman when assessed by the standards set by those who followed him. It is said that he decided to quit on the very day when people brought a dog on the streets of Rawalpindi with his name written on it.
A heart-broken man, he simply disappeared from the national scene after installing his successor, another general, of course. His name was Yahya Khan. A heavy drinker and a womaniser, this general would not go without taking one-half of the country with him.
Then came a totally opposite character: a mullah-general-without-a-beard, who would not only experiment with yet another form of democracy for this not-ready-for-democracy nation, but also create hatred for Islam in the hearts of our enlightened liberals. But while the mullah-general-without-a-beard was busy enforcing his Islam on the civilians, a very different kind of general-to-be was quickly ascending the ranks and when he made his appearance on that fateful night of October 12, 1999, no one could predict that he would be the hardest of all generals to get rid of.
The high-handedness with which ordinary citizens of the country are being treated is simply astonishing. Pictures emerging in the international media show hefty men in plainclothes breaking spinal chords and wrist bones of protesters. Helicopter gunships are killing men, women and children in idyllic valleys of the north and jails are getting full all over the country. Media outlets have been taken off air and journalists, lawyers and judges are being manhandled. It seems that no code of honour is being left untrammelled. Generals come and generals go, but every departing general takes away with him a chunk of civility that never returns to this polity.
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
I agree. these PCO traitors should be sacked when the REAL Supreme Court is rightfully restored under the able leader of the REAL and ONLY Chief Justice of Pakistan, the honorable Justice Iftikhar M. Chauhdry.
Dogar, the traitor, should be charged with contempt of court for disobeying the direct orders of the REAL CJP and his bench.
sorry iftikhwar choodry is a PCO judge himself, if we are going to demand accountability and honesty, and we are against military coups, then lets go for judges who never took oath under PCO, this one or the previous one. They are around.
Iftikhar chodhry is a two bit opportunistic thug that needs to be pimp slapped for politicizing the judiciary in Pakistan, a stupid moron who has abused his position and has not been held accountable.
iftikhwar? honorable? hah...that opportunistic thug is no honorable man.
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
sorry iftikhwar choodry is a PCO judge himself, if we are going to demand accountability and honesty, and we are against military coups, then lets go for judges who never took oath under PCO, this one or the previous one. They are around.
Iftikhar chodhry is a two bit opportunistic thug that needs to be pimp slapped for politicizing the judiciary in Pakistan, a stupid moron who has abused his position and has not been held accountable.
iftikhwar? honorable? hah...that opportunistic thug is no honorable man.
fine. lets get rid of Justice Iftikhar Chauhdry and bring back Justice Fakhruddin, Justice Saeeduzzaman, Justice Sajjad Ali Shah, Justice Wajihuddin. while we're doing that, lets do everything right.
so lets dig up the cursed remains of Ayub, Yahya and Zia. and put them on trial for treason along with Musharraf. hang them, strip them of their ranks and make examples out of them. after all we're doing things the right way and suspending the constitution is treason. the punishment for treason is obvious.
if Justice Iftikhar "politicized" the judiciary. then is must be mentioned that there is no institution more politicized than the military. who is going to "pimp slap" the generals who're too busy amassing personal fortunes at the expense of the country they swore to protect and whose politics they swore not to interfere in?
Re: Protest against Musharraf/ Martial Law (Merged)
sure..go for it.
and while digging up bones is not going to do much good, digging up and presenting the truth and everyone;s real role in it should be done, assassination of liaquat, loss of east Pakistan, lets have teh truth out.
go after corrupt generals and jail em, toss militant supporting mullahs like sami in gitmoeque prison.
but lets not make hero of a man who did not care too much about the constitution when it was in his interest, this iftikhwar chodhry, the opportunistic two bit thug.
he fully supported the suspension of constitution and he should get the penalty for that as well.
lets ask for whats right, and remove our personal likes and dislikes out.
Re: Protest against Musharraf/ Martial Law (Merged)
Sambrialian bhai, welcome back, baree der lagayee wapsi mai 
Anyway, should we create a thread for informing others of any upcoming protests in their cities?
Re: Protest against Musharraf on Saturday Nov 17, 1pm at Toronto City Hall
why restore all judges?? that is not justice.
any judge who has taken oath on PCO, now or in the past must not return.
And yes, please make sure that any judge that used his influence to get his son admission in medical college and then get him government job should not return. I don’t want hard working Pakistanis deprived of admission in medical college or could not get government jobs, just because duffer son of a corrupt judge has taken his deserving place.
Re: Salman Ahmed leading newyork rally
Pakistan: Trapped Between a Pharoah and a False Prophet
By Salman Ahmad(the founder of the Pakistani rock band Junoon and a UN goodwill ambassador for HIV/AIDS) He's featuring in a rally in New York on the 18th.
As the world watches, Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons, descends into political chaos, much attention has been given to two leaders competing for power – the current dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, and the media-savvy Benazir Bhutto. The White House, for the moment, appears to be backing Musharraf as its best bet in the so-called “war on terror,” while the world media and the western liberal elite see Bhutto as a democratic savior for a country mired in Islamic fundamentalism.
Both fail to recognize the core of the problem that plagues Pakistani politics and society. l believe that without a strong and independent judiciary,Pakistan will be forever at the mercy of power grabbing dictators and politicians.Its the lack of oversight and institutional accountability which leads to the coups and counter coups and helps perpetuate a constant state of instability in the country.
As an artist and a social activist I have worked extensively with both Musharraf and Bhutto's governments on peace initiatives and social uplift themes before, and have been disillusioned by their lack of commitment and political will to get any real work done while spending most of their time in consolidating their power bases.
On several occasions after September 11th, I was invited to General Musharraf’s house in Islamabad, and was surprised to see him even join me onstage in concert to help support a united national anti-extremist front. I,like many others of my generation,initially believed and supported his commitment to introduce a new era of "enlightened moderation" in Pakistan, a nation that was hijacked by religious fanatics during the American-backed military dictatorship of General Zia ul-Haq in the 1980s.
Unfortunately General Musharraf forgot that artists like myself are not seduced by presidential palaces or official praise. We had supported him for his promise of fighting extremism,bringing accountability into politics,opening up a free and independent media and reducing the immoral gap between Pakistan's rich and poor communities.No amount of political song and dance or governmental fear-mongering can make us look the other way while he imposes emergency rule,intimidates the media, dismantles the judiciary and muzzles any form of dissent against his flawed vision of democracy which is doomed to fail without the respect for civil institutions.
And yet Benazir Bhutto is no savior. The queen of hypocrisy and media manipulation, she has managed to hypnotize Western liberal classes with her false claims to represent progressive elements in the Muslim world. Ms. Bhutto is a charlatan and a false prophet of democracy. How can she insist on being a democrat while selfishly appointing herself life chairperson of the Pakistan people's party? Her years as Pakistan’s prime minister witnessed staggering levels of corruption and billion-dollar graft that left even the most cynical Pakistanis speechless. Benazir's own niece and sister in law accuse her of conspiring to murder her own brother,Murtaza,who was becoming a thorn for her government and a real challenge to her power during her second term as prime minister.She continues to see Pakistan as her personal feudal fiefdom to be pillaged and plundered at will and threatens to bring back the rule of the gangster rather than the rule of law.
During the late nineties I recorded a song called "Accountability" along with a music video that satirized Pakistani politicians like Bhutto whose corruption scandals were being reported in international publications like The New York Times and Newsweek. Her government’s response was to ban the music video and threaten my life. In the years since Bhutto fled the country to escape investigation of her family’s corrupt activities, her greed to regain power has blinded her from the genuine struggle being waged by Pakistanis on behalf of true democracy. One of her own party members,the lawyer Aitzaz Ahsan, who won the case for the restoration of the Chief justice of the supreme court, still languishes in jail along with thousands of others while Benazir attends diplomatic receptions and makes speeches about freedom and liberty. Earlier this year,while lawyers and human rights activists faced injury and death for standing up to Musharraf’s authoritarian regime, she was sipping lemonade on the sunny beaches of Dubai waiting for her go ahead from Washington.
So if neither the path of the military strongman nor the path of the feudal democrat serves the needs of Pakistan, what is an alternative model? The answer comes from within the genesis of Pakistan's freedom movement:One needs to only look at Pakistan's founder, Muhammad Ali Jinnah's struggle and sacrifice as a clear example of legal and political activism.Jinnah ,belonging to the Muslim middle class of India,was a strict constitutional lawyer,and an exellent blend of both Islamic and Western values of social justice.60 years on, the vast majority of Pakistanis still look back at him as being the best role model for Pakistani politics.Although secular in outlook he quoted his inspiration to be Prophet Muhammad,who he recalled as being the greatest law giver in history.Tenacious and uncorruptible to the core,Jinnah, sacrificed his life and property arguing the case for Pakistan and won independance from the British imperialists.The US and its allies need to unequivocally support civil society:the Pakistani supreme court judges, lawyers,journalists and human rights activists who are fighting to protect the rule of law.That in itself is the best weapon against the extremists and will also provide a safeguard against other adventurous leaders.
Shakespeare warned that the first instinct of a dictator is to “kill the lawyers.” He was right. It is the lawyers and the Judiciary who are the hope and the future of Pakistan. Let’s stand by their side and not surrender to the Pharoahs and the false prophets, whether they are clothed in a military uniform or a stylish Hermes scarf.
I like his views, if he's honestly blaming ALL where due and not being selective.
Reminds of Imran and how we supported and believed, but have been some put off cause of his delusions and selectiveness at times...
Someone who is honest to shun ALL that are bad for that is bad is good!
Until they have this distinction, the minute they mixup and embrace some against some, they're no different.