Re: Propeht in Battles
When AbuDhajana(ra) was shielding the Prophet(saw) from the arrows in Uhad was the Prophet(saw) carrying a weapon ?
I dont remember
Re: Propeht in Battles
I don’t think any sane person would step into a battle without his weapon…Especially if he is so close that he has to be shielded…
Re: Propeht in Battles
I am merely asking a question.....I really dont know
Re: Propeht in Battles
To me this belief that the Prophet never participated himself lifted a sword doesnt honestly make sense, logically. There is to my mind no difference between killing someone yourself, and instructing someone else to kill him, in terms of being a rehmat for the killed person. Perhaps someone can explain this to me?
Re: Propeht in Battles
Can anybody sight a reference where it states that Propeht ever killed anyone??
Re: Propeht in Battles
And what is it that you're referring to when speaking of 'fabricated facts'?
Re: Propeht in Battles
Why does it even matter if he killed anyone?
At the very least, he was the armed commander of an army of warriors on the battlefield, their general. He carries responsibility for the deaths of those enemies of Allah SWT who Muslim soldiers killed when he ordered them to fight.
There is no collateral damage, no being a bystander. He was the keystone of the Muslim command, control and communication mechanism at all the battles he was present at.
Re: Propeht in Battles
The Prophet himself was wounded and the cry arose that he was slain, till someone recognized him and shouted that he was still living. a shout to which the Muslims rallied. Gathering round the Prophet, they retreated, leaving many dead on the hillside.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/introducingislam/Prophet/Life/article02.shtml
To add, keep in mind that the Prophet (SAW) always had a lot of protection from those he was in command of.
Re: Propeht in Battles
[quote=Texan_Dude]
he was awarded the sword by the prophet(saw) it was the Prophet's sword I have heard of other weapons awarded to other companions as well like a spear to Zubair(ra)? I dont have a source]
Well and who brought the sword to Prophet...Gibrael????? go and look more into the battle buddy.... and whic companions was awarded wat weapon.. I would love to hear the details.. only if you have references... not some made up stories with no authentic references..... and do u find these words for any of those companions...
La Fatah Illah Ali La Saifa Illa Zulfiqar
true ....but killing was justified in just wars and sometimes as punishments(Banu Quraiyza) obviously non-muslims use this to project a violent image of Islam but they forget that Prophet(saw) was not just a preacher but also a head of state and commander of an army. To say that Islam is a "religion of peace" is misleading as people assume that the Prophet(saw) believed in non-violence. I think the correct defination would be that Islam is a religion of justice it orders its followwers to establish social/political/economic justice. Obviously if it can be achieved by peaceful means that is the best course as bloodshed is avoided (conquest of Makkah).But it does not tolerate oppression nor does it allows its followers to do so,this point is important so much so that even in fight amongst muslims we cannot stay neutral and must help the wronged party 49:9 If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them:** but if one of them transgresses Beyond bounds against the other, Then fight ye (all) against The one that transgresses Until it complies with The command of Allah;** But if it complies, then Make peace between them With justice, and be fair; For Allah loves those Who are fair (and just).
Well a long speech.. that still don't answer the question.. no where in history or in ur lengthy speech is it said.. that nauzubillah Prophet P.B.U.H killed anybody...
Re: Propeht in Battles
[quote]
Well and who brought the sword to Prophet...Gibrael????? go and look more into the battle buddy.... and whic companions was awarded wat weapon.. I would love to hear the details.. only if you have references... not some made up stories with no authentic references..... and do u find these words for any of those companions...
La Fatah Illah Ali La Saifa Illa Zulfiqar
......with regards to this specific battle accounts differ radically depending on which sect you belong to but that is not the point I am trying to make here
Your argument that Prophet(saw) didnt kill anyone personally because it was against his principles is a weak one
[quote]
Well a long speech.. that still don't answer the question.. no where in history or in ur lengthy speech is it said.. that nauzubillah Prophet P.B.U.H killed anybody...
[/quote]
what is the difference between ordering people to kill and killing them with your own hands? and why should killing those Pagan Arabs be forbidden?
Personally I think it was a great thing, an act of worship as it was a just war
Re: Propeht in Battles
what is the difference between ordering people to kill and killing them with your own hands? and why should killing those Pagan Arabs be forbidden? Personally I think it was a great thing, an act of worship as it was a just war
There might not be a difference between ordering people to kill and killing poeple yourself, but there is a huge difference in ordering peope to kill and ordering poeple to defend.
Your point about why should killing Pagan Arabs be forbidden, is not valid as no one claimed that its forbidden.
There are alot of acts in Islam which are considered great service but just because they are great, doesn't mean Propeht performed each and everyone of it himself, however he did appreciate and promote everyting that is good.
Breaking the idols on top of the roof of kaba, is a great honor, but did he perform it himself no it was hazrat Ali who did it, now if different sects disagree on this historical fact (which I am not sure if they do or don't), then I can sight other such good deeds where all sects agree that Propeht never performed those great acts himself.
Re: Propeht in Battles
first off all of the wars werent defensive in nature. i believe khyber certainly wasnt. secondly yes i dont think all sects agree that Hazrat Ali destroyed the idols, you'll have to give another example.
Re: Propeht in Battles
[quote]
There might not be a difference between ordering people to kill and killing poeple yourself, but there is a huge difference in ordering peope to kill and ordering poeple to defend.
sometimes you have to take the offensive to defend yourself
the war against muslims was started by quraish with their persecution and tortures in Mecca.
And the jews of medina broke their treaties and thus action against their forts was legitimate
according to my understnding( correct me if I am wrong) if a party breaks a treaty or pledge then action aginst them cannot constitute a offensive war
so in both cases the wars were defensive even though the battles might have been started by muslims
[quote]
Your point about why should killing Pagan Arabs be forbidden, is not valid as no one claimed that its forbidden
[/quote]
I get the impression from this thread that it was ....atleast for the Prophet(saw).
[quote]
Breaking the idols on top of the roof of kaba, is a great honor, but did he perform it himself no it was hazrat Ali who did it, now if different sects disagree on this historical fact (which I am not sure if they do or don't), then I can sight other such good deeds where all sects agree that Propeht never performed those great acts himself
[/quote]
I want to make 2 things clear
1) If you are telling me that virtues of Ali(as) were far superior to that of any other companions,then you are preaching to the choir
the version I know is that the kabba idols were put in 2 rows the lower row was destroyed by the Prophet(saw) himself but to destroy the upper row Prophet(saw) ordered Ali(as) to stand on his shoulders
but some people(not me) have a hard time believing how could the Prophet(saw) allow a grown man to stand on his shoulders.
2)I dont claim that the Prophet(saw) did personally kill anyone
but I dont undertand why this point is so important and maybe you could enlighten us all
Re: Propeht in Battles
I get the impression from this thread that it was ....atleast for the Prophet(saw).
I apologize if I gave that impression, the point I was trying to make was, that even though, it was certanly permitted but he never did killed anyone.
I want to make 2 things clear 1) If you are telling me that virtues of Ali(as) were far superior to that of any other companions,then you are preaching to the choir the version I know is that the kabba idols were put in 2 rows the lower row was destroyed by the Prophet(saw) himself but to destroy the upper row Prophet(saw) ordered Ali(as) to stand on his shoulders but some people(not me) have a hard time believing how could the Prophet(saw) allow a grown man to stand on his shoulders.
Yes you are right, but I was not using this an example to prove the virtues of Hazrat Ali just merely as an example where a commendeble, permitted action was not performed by the prophet himself.
2)I dont claim that the Prophet(saw) did personally kill anyone but I dont undertand why this point is so important and maybe you could enlighten us all
It was something I wanted to enquire about just to gain more knowledge and was not intended as a shia sunni issue which is how some people look at it.
u'r mistaken. If you'd read Seerah's of the Prophet (sas) written by non shia scholars...
Re: Propeht in Battles
Individual battles may have been offensive, but the entire war was definitely for defense...or more so, for survival.