Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Yes, I remember the major party decade of the nineties or even the new reconciliation era as working . . . NOT
I don't know why Gunja engages in dictator ship bakwass when he himself was a son of a"dictator". Kanjra bazi shru or ab popcorn lay kar dekho. !
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Yes, I remember the major party decade of the nineties or even the new reconciliation era as working . . . NOT
I don't know why Gunja engages in dictator ship bakwass when he himself was a son of a"dictator". Kanjra bazi shru or ab popcorn lay kar dekho. !
You need to give time! when the nation was about to get result ( getting sick of both PML N and PPP) mushy jumped in to save the both... let the two party system run, let the elections take place with regular intervals, so that no party have any excuse that they weren't allowed to complete there task or there wasn't enough time for them to provide relief to the common man of Pakistan... this will bring/develop the true leadership from the people of Pakistan, the leadership which will not look to the foreign and internal forces to get them in the power.. and this can only be achieved if there is strong party system and if these parties can have discouraging behavior to MQM and |Fazlu type parties...
My hate of PPP is not a secret, everybody here knows that, but i would prefer Zardari on Kiyani or Mushy on any given day... these are the worst time since the creation of Pakistan but with te democracy going on, i believe that only 2 years more and then we as a nation shall be free from him... we don't have to be on the roads to remove the govt... and in process, the opposition party of today have time to learn its lessons, they need to know what went wrong with PPP's current govt and how to avoid it, they need to develop there own road map, not a generic manifesto but the real one... this can be achieved the govt or majority party have not to worry about black-maliers like MQM and Fazlu...
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Moreover, i would like to say, that parties like MQM and Fazlu have been partners with the PPP govt. now when the tenure is about to be over i.e. political stunts and statements for election campaign shall be starting soon, these two parties have just left the govt to get away from the blame that they have failed to deliver...
Their campaign may start saying we left the govt. as soon as we find them ( PPP in this case) corrupt and bla bla bla... they milked the cow and now they don't want to share the responsibility of failure...
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
You need to give time! when the nation was about to get result ( getting sick of both PML N and PPP) mushy jumped in to save the both... let the two party system run, let the elections take place with regular intervals, so that no party have any excuse that they weren't allowed to complete there task or there wasn't enough time for them to provide relief to the common man of Pakistan... this will bring/develop the true leadership from the people of Pakistan, the leadership which will not look to the foreign and internal forces to get them in the power.. and this can only be achieved if there is strong party system and if these parties can have discouraging behavior to MQM and |Fazlu type parties...
My hate of PPP is not a secret, everybody here knows that, but i would prefer Zardari on Kiyani or Mushy on any given day... these are the worst time since the creation of Pakistan but with te democracy going on, i believe that only 2 years more and then we as a nation shall be free from him... we don't have to be on the roads to remove the govt... and in process, the opposition party of today have time to learn its lessons, they need to know what went wrong with PPP's current govt and how to avoid it, they need to develop there own road map, not a generic manifesto but the real one... this can be achieved the govt or majority party have not to worry about black-maliers like MQM and Fazlu...
Well hindsight is great, but back in 1999 Nawaz sharif was getting out of control (sajjad ali shah supreme court attack is one example) and then he decided to change an army chief when he was out of the country and then block the karachi runway so he probably would be sent to jacobabad to be arrested, though i don't know how true it is that musharraf's plane wold have to divert to india due to low fuel, and I don't have any sympathy for his "democratic set up". Musharraf's mistakes started after the 2002 elections when the honest set up after 1999 was wound up due to political decisions. Musharraf would be popular today even if he had resigned in late 2006 or early 2007 as he had 66% approval rating for being a dictator and all.
I don't like some views of Imran Khan (discussion would take thread elsewhere) but since we are in the gutter anyways, it is better to experiment with him now than later. What is stopping these parties to become mature now when America is giving a chance to Pakistani democracy and musharraf's media reforms have made it hard for military to just walk in?
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Well hindsight is great, but back in 1999 Nawaz sharif was getting out of control (sajjad ali shah supreme court attack is one example) and then he decided to change an army chief when he was out of the country and then block the karachi runway so he probably would be sent to jacobabad to be arrested, though i don't know how true it is that musharraf's plane wold have to divert to india due to low fuel, and I don't have any sympathy for his "democratic set up". Musharraf's mistakes started after the 2002 elections when the honest set up after 1999 was wound up due to political decisions. Musharraf would be popular today even if he had resigned in late 2006 or early 2007 as he had 66% approval rating for being a dictator and all.
I don't like some views of Imran Khan (discussion would take thread elsewhere) but since we are in the gutter anyways, it is better to experiment with him now than later. What is stopping these parties to become mature now when America is giving a chance to Pakistani democracy and musharraf's media reforms have made it hard for military to just walk in?
About 1999 episode, it was all the drama and this episode literally gave life to Nawaz and Benazir, benazir was rejected in the elections which resulted in 2/3rd majority of Nawaz and when people were getting sick of nawaz... there was greater chance for a new leadership to evolve and fill the gap created... but like i said earlier.. mushy jumped in and we went back to square one... Zardari came to power by the votes of the people, so let them suffer, let them know not to vote someone like him again and if they do choose to vote him, then it is them to blamed.. same stands for nawaz..
political stability is important here, with 2 party system, it is normally difficult for the types of fazlu to effect/black-mail the govt with his limited representation... as of now, some 7/8 MNAs of fazlu and 12/13 ( i don't recall the exact number) of MQM have held the country of 170 million people represented by 300+ in Parliament hostage to their mere interests... this need to be avoided...
Imran is not going to be a good poitician not in even next 20 years... he had a chance and he blew it all the way.. to me he is nothing more than another Asghar Khan... the man is so self centered that there in no one else known by the general public in his party... PTI is nothing more that Pakistan Through Imran.... lately he is meeting up leaders of Q league... what is he thinking or is he being part some other political game...
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Well I was just saying that "awam" should give him a chance since we are in the gutter anyway. I would rather experiment now than when Pakistan has started to rise up.
I do have misgivings about him as well, but then who else? There is MQM, which even if altaf hussain died of heart attack tomorrow, would never be accepted in rest of Pakistan like Punjab and interior sindh (not that votes aren't bought there in the 1st place). MQM, even in its heyday, made penetration in Azad kashmir (one MPA) and build offices in southern punjab (PPP territory) and NWFP (ANP / JI) but northern punjab still was a no-go. There is way too much baggage, including negative pro-govt propaganda, from the nineties sort of like how Islam gets the blame even if the truth is that muslim terrorists are involved in major wars in the world.
I mean if it isn't these people, then who else? PPP and PML-n have become family affairs so don't see any good leader coming up from the rank there. I know you wouldn't like Musharraf but then we are back to square one.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
[quote]
political stability is important here, with 2 party system, it is normally difficult for the types of fazlu to effect/black-mail the govt with his limited representation... as of now, some 7/8 MNAs of fazlu and 12/13 ( i don't recall the exact number) of MQM have held the country of 170 million people represented by 300+ in Parliament hostage to their mere interests... this need to be avoided...
[/quote]
So should we go back to One Unit or a parliamentary form of Ayub's basic democracy, since this is what actually happens in a parliament system.
I personally am in favor of a Jeffersonian system since majority of Pakistanis worship personalities, so why not make the executive separate from the legislature?
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
All Islamic, ethinic and tanga parties should either merge with ANP, PML(N) or PPP. There should be two or three parties only. If some one has great pain regarding these major parties should contest independent. A bill should be passed in the partliament to make this law in the country.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
^ if we really want to have 2 party system with constitution then the constitution must also say that only one from a family must be allowed to become party chief, there should be elections publicly held to elect party chief, no 'will' allowed to assume party leadership, no party leader be allowed to be senator/MPA/MNA/PM/CM/President etc.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
ANP is an ethnic party 
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
^ if we really want to have 2 party system with constitution then the constitution must also say that only one from a family must be allowed to become party chief, there should be elections publicly held to elect party chief, no 'will' allowed to assume party leadership, no party leader be allowed to be senator/MPA/MNA/PM/CM/President etc.
What a logic? Some one has to start somewhere. Founders of PPP have long gone. Technically Zardari is not Bhutto neither is PM Gilani. Get on over with family *e. PPP and PML(N) has estabilished as national parties. So allign with them or just be independent if someone think superior or just campaigning on ethinicity. This ethinic or Islamic *e should go down the gutter. Pakistan has suffered enough on these hatred and prejudice agendas.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
What a logic? Some one has to start somewhere. Founders of PPP have long gone. Technically Zardari is not Bhutto neither is PM Gilani. Get on over with family *e. PPP and PML(N) has estabilished as national parties. So allign with them or just be independent if someone think superior or just campaigning on ethinicity. This ethinic or Islamic *e should go down the gutter. Pakistan has suffered enough on these hatred and prejudice agendas.
What you missed to mention is how Zardari took over the reigns of the party and how/why Bilawal became party chief without doing any work for the party, why "Bhutto" was added to Bilawal' (and siblings) last name, why Faryal Talpur is being 'considered' as next President... there is a whole list of dirty laundry and you are saying that I get over with family ****e?
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
What you missed to mention is how Zardari took over the reigns of the party and how/why Bilawal became party chief without doing any work for the party, why "Bhutto" was added to Bilawal' (and siblings) last name, why Faryal Talpur is being 'considered' as next President... there is a whole list of dirty laundry and you are saying that I get over with family ****e?
What you fail to mention is Zardari was voted in as party leader, by the Central Executuve Committe, who voted on the wish BB left in her will.
Much the same party leaders in the UK, as elsewhere are voted in.
Faryal Talpur does not hold any significant position now, why would she be made President??These rumours are just gossip.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
What you fail to mention is Zardari was voted in as party leader, by the Central Executuve Committe, who voted on the wish BB left in her will.
Much the same party leaders in the UK, as elsewhere are voted in.
Faryal Talpur does not hold any significant position now, why would she be made President??These rumours are just gossip.
You are still missing the point, no leader should be allowed to pass someone else as the next leader in the 'will' whether there is voting on it or not.
Zardari didn't have a significant position before BB was killed, Rehman Malik is not an elected official to hold position of "Interior Ministry".... does it really matter for PPP who is what when they want to appoint someone to any post?
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
3 saal ayashi ki, and now they quit the cabinet. I wonder when they’ll quit the sindh assembly Will that murdered ishrat ul abaad resign too?
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
You are still missing the point, no leader should be allowed to pass someone else as the next leader in the 'will' whether there is voting on it or not.
Really it does not matter. These are purely PPP matters, they have every right to decide what they think is correct. It is PPP's CEC prorogative not any one else's business.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Bhai mere woh 25 salon se ayashi kar rahay hain. phir bhi wichon wichon khai jao te ute ute rola pai jao.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
Really it does not matter. These are purely PPP matters, they have every right to decide what they think is correct. It is PPP's CEC prorogative not any one else's business.
Exactly like that its everybody else's matter whether they agree with PPP, PML-N or setup an ethnic party, they have all the rights.
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
What you missed to mention is how Zardari took over the reigns of the party and how/why Bilawal became party chief without doing any work for the party, why "Bhutto" was added to Bilawal' (and siblings) last name, why Faryal Talpur is being 'considered' as next President... there is a whole list of dirty laundry and you are saying that I get over with family ****e?
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Captain,, ^ Never mind this ex sachay sachay sarkari afser ki batain,, ^ he loves to poke his nose in every post if you can prove there is an element of PPP bashing or whatever !
I promote Party Elections and it should be in black & white for Party manifest with "election commission" on permanent basis including one time submission of authentic personal audits etc.
Because this is not being done despite routinely being demanded by the public, elections are held one way or the other and every thing falls back into the loop again, and again.
Unfortunately without such Party Formation Regulation of some sort things will still turn out as tainted and dirty (Recent example of PPP dynasty)
We know how precise and clear cut regulations are in the west and I wonder why they can not be implemented domestically since Pakistan welcomes their Parliamentary Rep under UN to monitor or observe 'general Elections Proceedings against Fraud & Rigging ! why not adopt the system which would constitutionally regulated and fair to all parties ! One or Two party system can not be practical in presence of Religious or Sectarian Parties and vast differences therefore.
If your answer is "That the whole system is corrupt and such systm can not work in Pakistan ?
Then Good Luck to all the "Idol Lover" party affiliated citizens of Pakistan. IMO They don't deserve to be a democratic nation at all !
Re: Political turmoil as MQM quits Cabinet
You are still missing the point, no leader should be allowed to pass someone else as the next leader in the 'will' whether there is voting on it or not.
Zardari didn't have a significant position before BB was killed, Rehman Malik is not an elected official to hold position of "Interior Ministry".... does it really matter for PPP who is what when they want to appoint someone to any post?
No one 'passed' it, again it was voted on by the CEC, as it was the wishes of the whole party. If the CEC voted against it, it wouldn't have happened.
Rehman Malik is a dog, but his appointment is the same that happens everywhere, in US cabinet, UK cabinet, etc.