Pilot Officer Rashid Minhas; Friday, 20th August 1971

Mufakkar,
wow i didnt know about the original transcript being read in the play. was it just read by the actors, or the message they show being received by the ATC was the original one played? do get some info on that if you could.

I have found out that Rashid Minhas after take off had radioed in two messages to the ATC at Masroor, and both were just oneliners confirming his call sign and his status as 'hijacked'. the ATC officers on duty were taken by surprise and demanded confirmation and after a few minutes Rashid repeated the original message confirming 'Hijacked'. Then the Commander Flights ordered two F-86s to follow the path of the plane and track it, but Mati-Ur-Rehman was flying at tree top level, it all happened in just 8-10 minutes.
but i still wonder, the FDRs in planes record all the flight data, the routes, the technical stuff and all along with the voice, all the conversation between the pilot(s) among themselves or with the ATC, so what did the PAF find in Rashid's T-33 CVR. both pilots must have talked to each other during the few minutes they were together in flight...
my search goes on...

and the book by Brig SaaduLlah sounds a must read. i'll be looking for it now.

the brave pakistanis

The brave and courageous Pakistani military committed some of the human history's worst genocidal ethnic cleansing against bengalis in 1971.

To end, and perhaps avenge, this genocide of his people if a bengali officer made an attempt to hijack a Pakistani plane then he is correctly honored in Bangladesh.

Rahid Minhas was a highly trained soldier who crashed the plain while struggling to regain control of his plan from his instructor, who happened to be a MUSLIM fighting for his people's freedom. This episode had nothing to do with India. This was an act of freedom-fight by the bengali officer. In this struggle and fight, however ironic it maybe, Rashid Minhas represented the side of TYRANY and OPPRESSION.

Pakistan as it was born ceased to exist in 1971 thanks to its brave and courageous military.

PS: according to this thread's logic the 9/11 Flight 93 passengers should be awarded the highest honor of USA for taking on the hijackers of that flight.

Re: the brave pakistanis

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
In this struggle and fight, however ironic it maybe, Rashid Minhas represented the side of TYRANY and OPPRESSION.

Pakistan as it was born ceased to exist in 1971 thanks to its brave and courageous military.

[/QUOTE]

Just like kahmiris are oppressed and Indians represent Tyrany?

Re: Re: the brave pakistanis

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by proudpakistani: *

Just like kahmiris are oppressed and Indians represent Tyrany?
[/QUOTE]

india IS THE tyrant in kashmir, and kashmiris ARE oppressed. No question about that.

However, india's treatment of kashmiris in last 60 years is not even 1/100th (i.e. one hundredth) of what the proud and brave pakistani military did to benglais in just 1 year.

The year was 1971 if you do not remember your history.

Kashmiris, if they ever get out of india's grip, do not want anything to do with Pakistan. They know what happened to the Bengalis and just recently to Afghanistan.

Re: Re: Re: the brave pakistanis

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
....However, india's treatment of kashmiris in last 60 years is not even 1/100th (i.e. one hundredth) of what the proud and brave pakistani military did to benglais in just 1 year.
.....
[/QUOTE]

Oh Cmon! Bhartis will always be number 1 in killing their own citizens. They enjoy variety for sure. Muslims, Sikhs, Andhra, Biharis and you name it.

Bihar is a prime example of Bharati justice, followed in style by the King Lallu Parsad and Queen Ruber-i.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by daas: *
.....Kashmiris, if they ever get out of india's grip, do not want anything to do with Pakistan. ...
[/QUOTE]

Why make empty statments. Free Kashmiris and let them decide. Oh wait! Bharatis have now built three level deep Berlin wall just like Commies built one in Berlin. Kashmiris will be slaves forever now.

Even though there was bad treatment of Bengalis in that one year but it was over blown and was not one sided. The lives of Pakistani military personell and their families were not safe there. What you read in the media about how many people got killed by hands of Pakistan army there is exagerrated. If you want i will post and article that talks about some facts and is written by a Bengali himself.
By that way Daas why dont you compare how many people were killed by Pakistanis in one year in Bangladesh and how many people have been killed by Indians in kashmir.

PART 1
Bangladesh Gets No Sympathy for 1971

By Mohammad Shahidullah
Dated: October 23, 2000

Lately, a lot of attention has been focussed on trial of the Pakistani army personnel who were responsible for the killing of so many innocent people in Bangladesh (then East Pakistan) in 1971. I will try to provide some explanations why such a large-scale killing did not receive the kind of international and human rights groups' attention it deserved, and why the world did not move for any justice in this case. I will also reflect on how that impacts our psyche as a nation. 1) Credibility: Bangladesh govt. crudely and arbitrarily made up the number of deaths during the 9-month period of 1971. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, when released from Pakistani prison in Januray 1972, stated the death toll to be 1 lakh in London airport, 1 million in New Delhi airport and 3 million when landed in Dhaka. (Some people suggest that Sheik Mujibur Rahman confused million as English for lakh. But that is a different story). Obviously the number was not based on facts. Later, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman formed a commission to make a survey of the killings and come up with the real number.

The commission, after an exhaustive work, came up in 1973 with a death toll number, which was a 5-digit number. The results were published in newspapers briefly. The govt., in an apparent attempt to save it from a big embarrassment, hushed up the commission report and a high level decision was made to continue with the 3 million number publicly. (This is possible only for politicians of third world). Now, a casualty of 20,000 or 40,000 or 60,000 people in a matter of months is not a trivial thing, and is not to be taken lightly. It is a serious tragedy of mankind by any standard and in comparison to other events of the century, which deserved appropriate judicial action. Specially, the people killed were totally innocent to be a target of any army. We, Bangladeshis should not have anything to be ashamed of if the human sacrifice we made for our independence is not in millions, but in tens of thousands. Not many peoples have made that kind of sacrifice for their countries. But as the over-enthusiastic Awami League leadership wanted to take the whole credit for independence to themselves, they thought that by putting a large figure of deaths, they would increase their price in front of everybody. 2) Exaggeration: Another thing to note is that world community is not ready to buy this number of 3 million deaths. They are not as gullible as simple people of Bangladesh who hardly do any diligence behind the numbers. (Even people in India in their private conversations agree that the 1971 death toll number is absurd). They do hair-splitting investigation of everything. A death toll of 3 million over a period of 8 and a half months (266 days) means over eleven thousand people were killed everyday on an average! There is hardly any mechanism that any army can employ to kill that many people in one day (may be except by nuclear bombs) for so many days in a row. It is not possible for any force to kill that many people individually or in groups when the whole population was against the army. (Carpet bombing in Vietnam did not kill nearly as many people as someone would expect). Also, 1971 was in very modern time, and communication was quite developed then. It was highly unlikely that Pakistanis would get away with such a big genocide and the world would not know about it or not do anything about it. India and USSR were very much on Pakistan affairs then, and at least they would not let it slip unnoticed. I would even ask all of us who were adults in 1972 to take a sample survey. How many people did you know personally or your relatives who were killed in 1971? Or how many people did you know who had their relatives killed? Bangladesh is a country where people know each other unlike in USA. It is not difficult to know if people get killed. If 4% of the population was killed in a matter of months, then everybody should have some of their relatives killed. That was not the case. If you consider all the links, you will find that the death toll could not have been higher than what Sheikh Mujib's commission found out. 3) Political Motive: Bangladesh govt. was never interested in bringing to books the war criminals of the Pakistani forces. All they wanted was to make a political issue out of it and keep it alive. They were afraid that a trial of the criminals (at least 197 by the Awami League govt. account) would bring the matter to a closure, which would deprive them of a propaganda weapon. They wanted to maintain the hatred in public mind so that the Awami League govt. could cover their incompetence and failures in running the country. It also fit well their agenda to keep the Islamic forces in the country suppressed in the pretext that they were a party to the killings and until a trial happens, they will remain guilty in front of the nation. A fair trial of the Pakistani army officers would reveal facts that would cause embarrassments for many big Awami League leaders and clear the names of many of their political opponents who are always accused for taking part in killing without a charge sheet to this day. 4) Lack of Sincerity: The Awami League govt. was hardly concerned about the emotional side of the relatives and friends of the victims. In reality, very few of the Awami League leaders (even lower level ones) had lost loved ones during the 9-month period. (That can be a topic of another article). So there was no sensitivity or sense of urgency for them to work for justice for the relatives of the victims. Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, who did not lose anybody close to him, made behind the curtain deals with the Pakistani premier Bhutto (the person who was probably most responsible for the tragic events of 1971) in exchange of the war criminals. But he continued his high pitch rhetoric in public to keep his political enemies at bay. To this date, the same tactics are being used by the Awami League. When the identified war criminals were in their hands, they let them go and now they are behaving as if the Pakistani govt. rescued their army personnel by some military action. They are fooling the countrymen by their humdrum and shouting in the air for war crime trial knowing fully well that nothing will happen. 5) National Character: We have demonstrated time again how unreliable we are as a nation in giving out information. Especially our politicians have earned such notoriety as far as honesty is concerned that we do not need to elaborate. Even today, we lie about our population. When our population is nearing 150 million, we state it as over 120 million to avoid the disappointment of the donor agencies. We routinely exaggerate the numbers like percentage of literacy by a big percentage.

PART 2

The govts. in Bangladesh are only good at propagating lies, deceptions and falsehoods. They promise things in a flash that they know are not deliverable. They always claim credit for things that have really not happened, and for things they do not have any contribution. When our national budget's 50% comes from foreign aid, we always boast to pass a 'surplus' budget every year, which is totally farcical. These things are good for domestic consumption, but world community knows what goes in our country. Just because everybody is not blunt as Henry Kissinger was does not mean that people outside do not notice things or know things. They just tend to ignore things as petty matters in their big picture. The world community is sensitive enough not to insult the event by openly questioning the 3 million figure, but they all know it is an outrageous lie. So when the world community is consciously working to redress human tragedies in Bosnia, Kosovo, Rwanda, Kashmir, E. Timor, Chili, nobody is inclined to talk about 1971 tragedy of Bangladesh. The western world does not even recognize it as an important event of the century. It is not in the list of top genocides of the century for obvious reasons, although killings of less than half a million people got into the list (Time magazine). Apart from the fact that a considerable time has passed, we ourselves have weakened the case by our continuous dishonesty in this matter. We still hammer on the unrealistic 3 million number and are not willing to reconcile to truth. Because, in some of our hearts, we find our ego getting hurt to admit a mistake. Many of us do not really want a trial of the culprits, but are more interested in keeping a tension current in the region. This gives a good preoccupation for a section of our country, and suits the political agenda of many. Even today when 5 skulls are discovered in a grave in Mirpur, we drum it up as a 'MASS' grave. We try to sensationalize a thing that everybody already knows or expects. Because, it fits well with political timing of some special quarters. The situation now is very much like early seventies, and the party in power needs to create a lot of distraction to cover up their misdeeds. We discovered graves with many more skulls in 1972, but then we kept quiet. Why? This is the contradiction we suffer from. If we really believe 3 million people were killed in 1971, then why are we so excited to find a few skulls now? Are not 'millions' more supposedly buried in unknown graves? Discovery of 5 skulls does not go any distance to substantiate the 3 million number anyway. Some people will argue that it is an insult to the dead even to question the number of deaths now. But is it? And only 'anti- liberation' forces would do so. That is a typical response to many problems that our nation has come to face today. But if you think it carefully, we have insulted their memory more by making a farcical matter it has been reduced to. We have used them as a pawn in the narrow interest of the political parties. That is how we have treated our freedom fighters. Now we are politicizing even the children of the martyrs and using them for selfish propaganda. This is precisely why the sacrifice of our people did not (and does not) get the respect it deserved. This is the reason we did not get any justice in bringing the perpetrators of the crime to book. This has only reduced the honor of the nation to a level that we did not want. The present generation of Bangladeshis are only more confused by all these contradictions.

The publicized sacrifice of a huge number "3 million" does not inspire the nation for doing any good for the country and the society. Nobody cares to honor the people who laid down their lives (except for some politically motivated photo ops on certain days of the year). Why? We have deprived the nation of truth by distorting the history. Unless we become conscientious and do the right thing and face the truth, it may be too late to rectify the situation and we, as a nation will live a lie forever! This is called self-deception. Nothing can be more unfortunate for a nation.

[The author is a Bangladeshi journalist.]

Daas,
your bringing up of this argument in this thread is in bad taste. we at GS have had these discusions with Indians and Bangladeshis quite a few times. everyone agrees there were a lot of problesm in 1971 and if the Army killed the militants in thousands, the Mukti Bahini was by no means an innocent force. they were traitors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in doing what they did. why they did it is not to be discussed here. the issue is settled at both sides accepting there were mistakes committed by both.

Rashid Minhas indeed was a good officer of the PAF, the fact is more than proven by what he did; a fighter pilot is trained to make quick definite decisons which are correct in the long run. Rashid Minhas did exactly that. what this episode had to do with India could only be best be told by late Ft. Lt. MatiurRehman or his accomplices as he was steering the T-33 jet towards India’s Jamnagar airbase. he couldnt have been hoping to make it to some place in Dhaka you see! it was an act of freedom struggle by him but what was the point? had he kamikazied the plane on to an imp installation one could have understood his motives and their relevence, in this case though, there was nothing he could have gained out of hijacking a jet trainer and landing it in India! it may have symbolized some things, but would have been pointles in the end. and what Rashid Minhas did cant be done by just anyone, it requires a lot!
so to you your heroes and to us ours!

ProudPakistani,
good article :k:

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Haris Zuberi: *
Daas,
your bringing up of this argument in this thread is in bad taste. we at GS have had these discusions with Indians and Bangladeshis quite a few times. everyone agrees there were a lot of problesm in 1971 and if the Army killed the militants in thousands, the Mukti Bahini was by no means an innocent force. they were traitors to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in doing what they did. why they did it is not to be discussed here. the issue is settled at both sides accepting there were mistakes committed by both.
[/QUOTE]

what problems were there for Pak military to massacre bengalis ?

If those who fought for the independence of bangla desh are/were "militants" and it was not only OK but a matter of pride for Pakistani military to kill them then why were afghan fighters in 1980s and Iraqi fighters today are called "mujahideen", aren't they also militants and perfectly legitimate targets for occupation forces to hunt down and killed ?

Whether you are motivated by nation or religion (and not pragmatism), a great story to learn from.

He was a great legend

Heros

We called these brave people Heros but in realty they are the victims of
stupid decisions taken by stupid politicians. Really we are fighting with whom? and as of today what did we earned? Is it a bravery to kill our own brothers sisters mothers & fathers?

Its time to think what really we are doing

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

Proudpakistani, you want others to be a party of your confusion. In Bangladesh, off course, not 3 million were killed. But the brave army of Pakistan killed at least three laks in a period of 9 months genuine killings. Over ten million Bengalis crossed over to India for refuge.

And your challenge of killings in Kashmir…..What ware the figures of killed in May 1998 as per Pak official media, 70000, and what are the figures of killed in Jan 2005, again 70000.
Can you explain this confusion of your official media?

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

Pakistan erupts
An ally’s crisis requires cold calculation

By James Warren
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 20, 2005

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-0501190441jan20,1,1916308.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

In the Nixon White House, Henry Kissinger served first as national security adviser and later as secretary of state. His telephone transcripts reveal a man of great intellect, wit and charm. But they also show his cold calculation regarding affairs of the day, most vividly in a hands-off approach toward a bloody South Asian crisis in 1971.

In December 1970, Pakistan held its first free, democratic election for its National Assembly, with an East Pakistan political party winning most of the seats. The loss of West Pakistan’s traditional power prompted its leader, military dictator and U.S. ally Gen. Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan, to postpone Parliament’s opening and inspired huge street protests by the Bengali East Pakistanis.

In March 1971, Yahya’s military began a brutal crackdown in East Pakistan. It is believed that about 10,000 civilians were killed within three days and that the eventual toll was a stunning 3 million. An estimated 10 million Bengalis fled across the border into India.

Yahya was a Nixon administration favorite for several reasons, notably for his role in secret approaches the U.S. made to the People’s Republic of China. This relationship helps explain the unsympathetic response Kissinger, then Nixon’s national security adviser, gave to diplomatic cables from Archer Blood, a Chicago native who was U.S. consul general in Dhaka, East Pakistan [now Bangladesh]. Blood sent a series of messages to the State Department describing carnage and decrying the brutality of Yahya’s military.

By the time Kissinger and Nixon spoke March 28, 1971, Blood’s first cable had arrived, saying in part, “We are mute and horrified witnesses to a reign of terror by the Pak military. . . . We should be expressing our shock, at least privately, to GOP [government of Pakistan], at this wave of terror directed against their own countrymen by Pak military.”

Kissinger and Nixon were suspicious of Foreign Service officers such as Blood, seeing them as “bleeding-heart liberals” who sympathized too greatly with the nations to which they were posted. They also believed that claims of atrocities in Pakistan were exaggerated.

What follows are excerpts from telephone conversations secretly monitored and transcribed by a Kissinger secretary with occasional spelling and grammatical errors that were never corrected.

Kissinger: . . . We’ve had a bleeding cable from our Consul in Dacca [Dhaka] who wants us to put out a statement condemning what the West Pakistanis are doing. But of course we won’t consider it.

Nixon: Oh for Christ’s sake.

Kissinger: Well, he’s just one of these pansies.

Nixon: And he says ‘condemning them?’

Kissinger: Yeah, for genocide.

Nixon: Well, now remove him. I want him out of the job. You understand. You get that over to. . . . Who’s in charge of that one? That’s Sisco [Joseph Sisco, an assistant secretary of state].

Kissinger: Right.

Nixon: That man’s to be out of there. That kind of fellow with that kind of lack of balance and so forth. . . . He’s obviously in there joining one side or the other. He’s supposed to stay out of this goddamned war.

Kissinger: That’s right. If we do that we’re going to have anti-American riots in West Pakistan.

Nixon: That’s right. I don’t want that kind of fellow there and I want his background checked immediately. I want to know who he is and so forth. Then kick him the hell out of there.

Kissinger: Right.

Nixon: Move him some place else.

Kissinger: Right.

Nixon: Isn’t that awful. Jesus Christ, I mean I wouldn’t put out a statement praising it, but we’re not going to condemn it either.

Kissinger: No matter what we think of . . . . Even if we didn’t have that relationship with Yahya, this is just not . . . there’s nothing we can say that isn’t going to get us more trouble than it’s worth, for either side.

Nixon: That’s right. Well, boy! Isn’t that something. Shows you what those career guys would have us do virtually every time. You know, they get over there, they get involved . . . .

Kissinger: Exactly.

Nixon: Par for the course . . .

Consul Blood and U.S. diplomatic colleagues sent an April 6, 1971, cable declaring, “Our government has failed to denounce the suppression of democracy. Our government has failed to take forceful measure to protect its citizens while at the same time bending over backwards to placate the West Pak dominated government and to less likely and deservedly negative international public relations impact against them.” It states that “unfortunately, the overworked term genocide is applicable.”

That same day Kissinger talks to Secretary of State William Rogers, whom he sparred with regularly. The president was preparing a major speech for the next evening, to announce what he would call the success of so-called Vietnamization after major military operations in Cambodia and Laos.

Rogers: I wanted to talk about that goddam message from our people in Dacca [Dhaka]. Did you see it?

Kissinger: No.

Rogers: It’s miserable. They bitched about our policy and have given it lots of distribution so it will probably leak. It’s inexcusable.

Kissinger: And it will probably get to Ted Kennedy.

Rogers: I am sure it will.

Kissinger: Somebody gives him cables. I have had him call me about them.

Rogers: It’s a terrible telegram. Couldn’t be worse/says we failed to defend American lives and are morally bankrupt.

Kissinger: Blood did that?

Rogers: Quite a few of them signed it. You know we are doing everything we can about it. Trying to get the telegrams back as many as we can. We are going to get a message back to them.

Kissinger: I am going in these two days to keep it from the President until he has given his speech.

Rogers: If you can keep it from him I will appreciate it. In the first place I think we have made a good choice.

Kissinger: The Chinese haven’t said anything.

Rogers: They talk about condemning atrocities. There are pictures of the East Pakistanis murdering people.

Kissinger: Yes. There was one of an East Pakistani holding a head. Do you remember when they said there were 1000 bodies and they had the graves and then we couldn’t find 20?

Rogers: To me it is outrageous they would send this.

Kissinger: Unless it hits the wires I will hold it. I will not forward it.

Rogers: We should get our answers out at the same time the stories come out.

Kissinger: I will not pass it on. . .

Blood was reassigned to the State Department’s office of personnel. “I paid a price for my dissent,” he told The Washington Post in 1982. “The line between right and wrong was just too clear-cut.” Blood was given posts as acting ambassador to Afghanistan and as charge d’affaires in New Delhi before retiring in 1982. He died last year.

Friday: Entertaining Mr. Brezhnev.

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

The article by Mohammad Shahidullah should be no space in this thread.

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

was there any witness for the bengali guy forcing his way into the fighter cockpit? how did he get on the plane in the 1st place?

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

he was an instructor fighter pilot grounded due to the tensions and was assigned the duties of a ground safety officer who patrols the runway. it probably wasnt his duty that day, but still he had all access and good faith of his students who were landing and taking off continuously. when Rashid was taxiing his T-33 and lining up for take off he pulled beside him on the tarmac in his patrol jeep and Rashid on the verge of take off may have been taken by surprise on the sudden appearance of his instructor at that moment and may probably have thought that he had made some procedural mistake which the instructor had come to rectify or warn him of...the training missions are very vital and performance plays great role in shaping the career of any pilot and a slight mistake can get very serious...Rashid may have been in that frame of mind on the sudden appearance of MatiurRehman, when he entered the rear cockpit of the two seater jet. it was only after a few minutes that Rashid realized that his instructor had other motives...
I'm not sure if anyone actually witnessed Mati getting into the cockpit but his body was found intact and was identified near the wreckage. the jeep was found on the tarmac and a pistol from the wreckage...

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

so, the whole thing is conjecture? look at the possibilities:

  1. it could have been a crash - matiur noticed something, came to warn, Rashid insisted and matiur, as a good guru joined him to help - then the plane crashed.

  2. the roles could have been reversed - matiur found out rashid was gonna do something, came to prevent it / convince him against it ...but rashid prevailed

I am trying to ascertain how, when the two people involved died and there were no witnesses, that one was branded hero and the other a traitor?

Re: Friday, 20th August 1971

the research and investigation in such cases is done by an entire board thats assigned the task to completely investigate and file the findings for the records etc. it happens after every minor incident, rather evrytime a plane takes off the airmen and pilot record the experience.
in bigger cases like tis the team comprised consists of a number of senior officers in charge of the invetigations etc.
in Rashid Minhas's case there was a board set to investigate the case under Wing Commander Cecil Chaudhry, who had been Sqn Ldr Sarfaraz Rafiqui's Shaheed's wingman and No.2 in Sep 1965 over Halwarra.

so to answer your questions in order;

  1. routine training missions taking off from the base are extremely choreographed events to the minute. anyone not scheduled to take off cannot take off in any aircraft just like that without proper consent from the higher ups i.e. the officer's squadron commander, the squadron commander's wing commander, the wing commander's commander flights and above him the base commander...these are routine things and are not and cannot be disobeyed. Matiurrehman was grounded, he wasnt scheduled to fly, if there was a problem in the aircraft, it wasnt for him to correct and get into the cockpit and correct it. there is technical staff to look after that and actually any aircraft taxiing for takeoff has been cleared by a number of checks before its ready to taxi. so theres liitle chance that MaturRehman got in to correct some fault and then just to test it with his student for his safety decided to take a ride with him. had he doen that and had returned to base he would have been courtmartialled for breaking the rules.

2.
when the crash of the plane the death of both pilots confirmed, the first thing to be noticed must have been MatiuRehman's very presence in the flight unauthorized! if that wasnt proof leading to suspicion enough, his wife aided by a few of his Bengali friends was being taken to the Indian consulate for assylum...on learning of her husbands plan gone bad she returned to base. later some more evidence must have been found in the officers possesssion to lead the team to conclude what it did.

so had there been any unsurity regarding the roles, the nation wouldnt have conferred the highest award on Rashid Minhas...the Nishan-i-Haider...they could have hushed it off with a Sitara-e-Jurat at most too...