Re: Pakistans new Feudals
My friend, this European and Western yardstick must not be applied to adjudge Pakistan. Why do you do this injustice to your country? Where will you stand if I compare you with Bill Gates?
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
yes thats called democracy..and has been proven to be an effective system across the world..more importantly it was the system that Quaid-e-Azam fought for..he didn’t believe in the lathi or the goli and he certainly didn’t believe in martial law.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
Zakk do you believe that the so-called representatives of people are justifying their mandate? Are they doing what they were supposed to do? Are their hands clean? They must learn a few lessons before getting the driving license.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
Yeap. It used to exist and then it got transformed into something different. That reminds me that my favorite poet Ghalib marhoom said it right.
Sirf Andaaz-e- Biyan baat badal daita hai
Warna dunya ke koyee baat Na-ee baat nahi
Translations: It is only style that changes over the years. Otherwise there is nothing new in this life.
Japan, Germany, UK, and US simply changed their style. The old feudals became the new corporations, and the old knights became the new generals.
In most of the developed countries (minus France), Feudal-military alliances were accepted and admired by their intellectuals. So their societies didn't go through messy transformations or decline.
However in Pakistan, we have clash of civilizations. The landed aristocracy has been despised by Bihari intellectuals. My Urdu community has mostly taken to their heart that Feudals are the worst thing ever happened to man. Why do they do that?
Simple answer is "p*** envy" (that is peasent envy my friends and don't think about the other interpretation). See how bloody war has been raging in Bihar between peasant militias and the landowner militias. The result has been terrible for Bihar as it now leads the infamous group of BIMARU states.
Pakistani Urdu People community doesn't realize that Bihar now is 1000's of miles away. Feudals in Pakistan are their own brethren. It is time that our intellectuals treated our army and our land owners with respect. Sure some of the land owners are bad, just like some of the American corporations are bad (Enron). But majority of landowners are contributing big time in the prosperity of Pakistan, just like American corporations such as IBM, Intel, and Microsoft.
Instead of starting a Bihari style war against feudals, we ought to create opportunities for them, so they become new corporations. Just see how Toyota of Japan works like old Japanese feudals. And see how much wealth and prosperity they have generated for Japan.
It is time that urban gentry worked hand in hand with our landed aristocracy just like it worked in UK some times ago. Landed gentry and military provides power, and urban intellectuals provide brains. You combine the two, and you got the best of both worlds. You pit one against the other, and the result is brainless, and mindless struggle for power.
No need to pit one section of the society against the other. Please!
peace
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
amal conversely the same can be said about the Army (remember the Army and civil service have led Pakistan for most of it’s time)..it’s hands are not clean with the mess of 1971 or the sectarianism and kalashinkov culture of the 1980’s. It’s a matter of record except for Yahya Khan both Ayub and Zia enriched their friends and families enormously during their terms. It is true we have corrupt politicians, and our democracy has failed in many respects but as Churchill said Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others..
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
We can include civil servents also in this hall of shame. The troika includes military, politicians and the bureaucracy. Everyone has let us down. But there has to be someone at the helms of the affairs. I am not for military doing the government job. But strictly speaking, Musharraf has really done one thing or two which should be appreciated.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
*Democracy without politikos' strong commitment to stability and justice, is simply DEMO-CRAZY.
*
Churchill had a luxury of much more stable UK (relative to Pakistan of today) to say something about demo-crazy.
However Pakistan does not share the internal OR external stability to follow Churchill's advice.
As someone said, Zakk we can't put you on the same table as Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs. I hope your hard work takes you to the pinnacle of technology soon. However it is not happening at this stage.
Similarly Pakistan would like some day to be more stable and more democratic like the West some day.
Just like steve job's hardwork must be followed by you, to reach the level of prosperity,
Pakistan must work hard to bring stability in the system, in order to reach Churchill's dream.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
The problem with this argument is simple: fundamentally the Military cannot create the cohesion and stability for long term development (you need institutions for that). Pakistans key problem is not whether politicians or military or civil servants have stolen billions..Pakistan has almost been reduced to total ruin primarily by the worst form of corruption and that is the corruption of power. When the love of the kursi is ones only philosophy, there is no difference between that person and a feudal, sardar or tribal leader.
Yahya Khan was never accused of even stealing one penny..neither were people like Khawaja Nazimuddin or Iskander Mirza. Anyone who met and saw how Zia lived would have thought he was an average government servant (the same cannot be said for his kids). But whenever you hear the golden words from a leader or his chamcha followers.."My country needs me and if i go the country will fall apart" you hear a sign of someone who believes he is somehow greater or superior to everyone else and that's when you have 1971 situations and you have the birth of sectarinaism, gun culture and drugs..and thats when the country is really in danger.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
And the problem with your view is that you are giving the politicians benefit of being civilians a lilttle too much. Military has no business to run a country — so far so fine. But remember that even military cannot get to the kursi unless it is helped by these civilians/politicians. Will you refuse to accept that our politicians allow themselves to be used by military?
Aetizaz Ahsan acknowledged in a TV interview a few weeks ago that the PPP had formed its first government under Benazir Bhutto just for the sake of getting to the kursi. He admited that they were dictated terms and conditions to get the power and they accepted all. Why? Why they did not refuse to be dictated and go back to masses? Why they did not make it public that army is demanding equal, if not more, shares in power? Only because they were interested to be in the power and not in anything called democracy.
And what’s happening now by the way? The MMA, the ARD, PPP and the Nawaz League, all are hell-bent on bringing Shaukat Aziz down through no-confidence move. while there is only one year left in elections, they guys are busying in pulling Aziz down instead of cementing their own ranks and making sure that elections held in time and they are held in absolutely fair manner. Instead of spenind each and every moment in trying to bring as much of international pressure as possible to force Musharraf on holding fair polls, they are still busy in activities that are of no use. This shows the maturaity of the leaders you want to be our rulers.
Having said that, I am not a single bit in favour of military being the government. But how prepared our politicians are to be our true leaders?
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
Amal you won't find any disagreement with me about the inability of politicians in being true leaders..(as a breed politicians are universally as you describe which ever country..politics is a dirty biz thats a simple fact). I disagree with the idea that politicians are solely responsible for the mess of inviting the Army..many other nations have as much instability and perhaps more than Pakistan, yet their Armies don't overthrow the government..why?, even in musharrafs case he did not oust Nawaz because BB or Tahirual Qadri begged him to, he ousted him because it was in his interest.
Secondly, the Army leadership does not exclusively target civilians for overthrow, when Ayub Khan was put under pressure they turned on him, as they did to Yahya Khan and probably did to Zia. So the supposed stability that comes with Military rule is a myth as well..
Thirdly the supposed argument that the people celebrate everytime a civilian government falls can be used the otherway around, next to nobody has ever rallied for a military government after its fall.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
shabash shabash, keep kissing army behinds, one day you will also get a few acres.... NOT!
Why do we have to look at other's problems to feel better? You are the one jumps miles above to show the faults in Mullahs but when someone shows faults in Pakistani government/military you make a 180 degree turn and say to look at neighbors. shame, utter shame.
Re: Pakistans new Feudals
You have no shame in exhibiting your hate of Urdu community. Did you ever go and visit the ones affected by feudal's excessions? I am pretty sure you are on feudal's side when he does otherwise you won't be uttering a word in feudal's defense.