The loyalty of Hindus not questioned in Pakistan’
Rasheeda Bhagat
Mr Akhtar Alavi, Director, Adamjee Insurance Company
Recently in Karachi
THE Hindus in Pakistan constitute hardly 1.5 per cent of the population, and “it is true that they keep a low profile, but have done well economically,” Mr Akhtar A. Alavi, Director and General Manager of Aadamjee Insurance, Paksitan’s largest insurance company, told Business Line in an interview in Karachi.
Excerpts:
There is a lot of curiosity in India about the condition of Hindus here. What is their economic status and how secure do they feel here?
Economically they are very well off. Grain and cotton ginning business is in their hands in a big way in both Sindh and Balochistan. We have lots and lots of customers who come to us for insurance of their business. There are many Hindu professionals in Pakistan and they have all done very well. Right now we even have a sitting judge in the Supreme Court.
The perception in India is that they are being discriminated against. What is the mindset of the minorities here?
Well, it is a little like in India. Of course one would not say they are not loyal or accuse them of having an affinity with the other side. The only affinity would be on the emotional side … they have some sort of an attachment to family ties, etc. But is their nationalism questioned all the time, as happens in certain regions or sections of India? Do they have to prove their loyalty all the time?
Well, this applies even to the Muslims themselves, particularly those of East Pakistan. This is very sad and tragic. I had a friend from East Pakistan whose father was a minister in the Federal Cabinet. Soon after Bangladesh, when I came down from England, I went to meet him. And he said, `Dekho, hum chor ki tarah yaha baitha hei’ (I’m sitting like a thief here). So I said what is the matter?
And he said: “Tumharawala bolta hei hum gaddar hei, hamarawala bolta hei hum gaddar hei… ’ (both sides call me a traitor). You don’t want me, my own people don’t want me.” I don’t know whether he went to Bangladesh later or not.
In the Rotary we have lots and lots of Hindus who are very good Rotarians and very good social workers. We have doctors, lawyers and businessmen.
What about their religious freedom?
They have their temples and they worship freely there.
Do you have communal riots where Hindus are bashed?
I can tell you one thing … not that one is trying to defend anything wrong that might happen … there has never ever, ever been anything here, except at the partition time, like Gujarat.
Not even when the Babri masjid was demolished?
Certainly not. There might have been the odd incidents, but the perception that they are discriminated against is not true. Of course it is true that they live a low profile life.
How do you read the Indo-Pak peace process?
I hope that what one sees on the surface really materialises, and the process is not only for political ends; elections strategy on your side or pressure from the West on ours. That is the worrying part. But the people on both sides can become a driving force, as the majority on both sides wants peace. But then each side also has its own well-entrenched vested interests, which don’t want things to improve.
Such as?
Vested interest in our armed forces and our religious parties. But on the other hand, the change is being brought about by the more conservative elements in our society rather than the more liberal elements on both sides.
Can you elaborate?
What is the BJP if not right wing and what would normally be an army … the armed forces on both sides generally reflect conservative opinion. So there is a right wing government in power in India and General Musharraf in control here. And parties like the Pakistan Muslim League … they are certainly not socialists. We had Fazlul Rehman coming to India on a goodwill mission; normally these are the people who would oppose change.
What do you think has changed to make such people to get into the driver’s seat and drive the process forward? Is it exhaustion at long years of strife?
I think so. There are certain burning issues that are becoming more and more serious. Problems are getting bigger. Water is going to be a very serious problem. Already there is a very strong feeling between the two major provinces - Punjab and Sindh - on water. Both are agriculture-based economies, both want water and each is trying to grab more than its share, resulting in strikes and demonstrations. Poverty is not going down; actually it is increasing and on our side it is related to the unchecked growth in our population.
What about family planning norms?
Those are more on paper than in substance and all the suspicion comes from ignorance and poverty; that planning the family is against our religious norms.
Isn’t that more among the uneducated classes?
Yes. But that’s where the problem is! And the majority of them have six or seven children. This only makes our problem more acute and we’ve had this eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation, almost going to war with India after Kargil. All this has been a disaster for our economy. Your economy is stronger than ours. And there is international pressure as well.
But gradually a scenario will evolve in which India will be the regional superpower…
And Pakistan is reading the writing on the wall?
Well, your fellows are brainier than ours. They are farsighted and far thinking and have recently signed very significant agreements.
Such as?
You’ve signed a defence agreement with Iran that you will train their defence guys and you’ve signed a similar agreement with the UAE. Also India is on very good terms with the government in Afghanistan.
And we never sent a peacekeeping force to Iraq despite substantial US pressure.
Yes, we could see that. But then it all comes down to Kashmir. If that problem is resolved…
How? What about LoC (Line of Control) as boundary?
Perhaps, that may happen. But I feel the Kashmiris should have the right to decide; if they want to be independent so be it.
But ultimately, I think there is no going away from it; you keep yours and we keep ours. We can’t take it over by force, and I can’t see India giving it up, despite paying a lot of lip service that we’ll talk and we’ll do this or that.
Do you think Pakistan’s economy is back on the rails after long years of depression?
In some ways we are our worst enemies; all the experiments in the world take place here.
Like?
Islamic economy, Shariah courts and so on … hazaar experiments yaha hotey hei… (Thousands of experiments take place here).
But how is business?
It is good; we had a good year, exceeded our targets and set new ones. This year there will be 20 per cent growth. Also, 9/11 has proved to be a blessing in disguise. People feel that money is safer at home than outside. The worrying part is that WTO is going to kill us. This is back door colonisation…
But apart from that, the economy is on the right track. Privatisation of United Bank has been completed, and Habib Bank - the largest in the country - is next. It is being bought over by the Agha Khan fund. Where they have not privatised existing ones, they are allowing private units to come in; they are also now allowing private cement chemical, engineering and other industries to come up.
What is the sentiment in business circles about opening up the borders with India on trade and industry front?
Of course the fear is there that India will come and dominate. But on the other hand some people … one of my friends is in pharmaceuticals; he went to India and is trying to work on a joint venture. We would certainly like to open branches in India. Look at your market, it’s huge. But first of all, people’s movement is needed. When people travel and see each other than all this suspicion ki hum ko mar dengey (they’ll kill us) will disappear. But it will take time; 56 years of hostility and suspicion cannot disappear overnight.