Pakistani government & Guantanamo

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

September 2002

So yes, President Musharraf’s government is attempting to get every single Pakistani man held at Guantanamo Bay repatriated to their homeland. The Pakistan government’s official position is that not a single Pakistani being held at Guantanamo Bay has links to Al-Qaeda, and therefore that they should all be repatriated.

In july 2003, the governments diplomatic efforts led to the release of 11 prisoners, and a limited stream of other Pakistani prisoners from Guantanamo has been freed over the past year.

As I understand, Pakistan has managed to have more of its nationals released than the government of any of the nationalities of the prisoners.

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Ak47, if that is true, why is is that the Pakistan Foreign ministry stated to the press, in the link given in my above post, that *“none of the Pakistani detainees had any links with al-Qaeda or any other terror group.” :confused: *

In addition, if your comment is true, why did the spokesman go on to say that "the Pakistani authorities had carried out a thorough background check on these men and none of them had been found to be involved in any illegal activities." :konfused:

And also, why did the spokesman also say that “Pakistan has now asked the US to release and repatriate these men as soon as possible.” :confused:

I’m having some problems reconciling your post and the official statements from the government…

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Mad Scientist :flower1: Thank you for your informative response.

As is accurately noted by yourself, the article is dated 2 September 2002 - that’s more than a year ago. That’s 15 months. Fifteen months where intelligence agencies of both countries had more than ample time to prove the guilt of any of those detainees, and presuming there is a lack of guilt, to immediately release the detainees.

The article mentions that a “team of Pakistani intelligence and security officials recently visited the detention centre at the naval base on Cuba and interrogated each of the Pakistani prisoners” - this is no different than what other countries’ governments have done, including particular European governments, i think, who have a few citizens holed up at Guantanamo. Even the Red Cross pays regular visits to the base. The Pakistani government has done nothing unique; what is outlined above is their duty towards these citizens, it is what is expected of them towards their own citizens.

**
:confused: i am not certain about this so please correct me if i am wrong but that may partially be because Pakistan has more citizens detained there than most other countries (with the exception of Afghanistan, perhaps).

All i am wondering is… Pakistan has bent over backwards to accomodate the current US administration vis-a-vis its abstract “war against terrorism”. When this subservience of sovereignty begins to shackle the civil liberties of a country’s own citizens, then honestly speaking - something is seriously screwed up. Eighty year old men who can walk only with crutches, are languishing in Guantanamo right now, as i type, and some of them may be as innocent as you or me. Imagine what their families must be going through, waiting for the torturous process of interrogations and trials to finish - maybe in five years’ time, maybe never, who knows? Just b/c one government doesn’t give a damn about a man’s fundamental human rights, doesn’t mean we should imitate them and behave in the same manner.

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Mad scientist

I don't think pak government has got the nerve to ask for anything seriously.

Famous example springs to mind F 16, how many years pak been asking for them. And i belive they got Soya beans for there efforts instead!

Government spokesman can make statement about realse the men in camp X Ray but how much water does a Government Spokesman words have, in my view very little its like in one ear out the other.

that was my point.

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Nadia,

I believe that you are being unduly harsh on the Pakistan government.

My point is that Pakistan's government believes that its citizens imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay are held there unjustly and that they are innocent men.

Pakistan's own intelligence agencies believe that there is no proof of guilt for single Pakistani man at Guantanamo for the crimes they are accused of

However, you seem to take the line that since 15 months have passed since Pakistan came to this conclusion, Pakistan is at fault for the failure to release all the Pakistani prisoners.

However, you miss the point that the Iraq war demonstrated amply - the USA is not interested in having proof of guilt anymore; the USA only is satisfied with proof of innocence, which is immeasurably harder. And the prisoners are NOT prisoners of Pakistan - no matter what evidence Pakistan might show for innocence, the men will not be released unless the USA believes that. The USA is the bottleneck in the release of these innocent men, not Pakistan.

Pakistan has no leverage at all over the USA to secure the release of its citizens.. that's the sad part. We can just show that there is no evidence that our citizens did anything wrong, and the government believes that it has. The decision to release the men lies with the USA.

Furthermore, you are also harsh because your post makes the impression that Pakistan has accomplished nothing since September 2002, when it declared the men to be completely innocent.

In fact, the efforts of the Pakistani government to secure the release of all of its citizens led to a success in July 2003, when nearly 20% of all Pakistanis at Guantanamo Bay were released and flown home. After being debriefed in Pakistan, all were allowed to return to their homes and families.

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A bit of topic… but worth a read

•Pakistanis freed from Guantanamo lead miserable lives

Rahimullah Yusufzai

PESHAWAR: Most of the 15 Pakistanis who have been freed from the US naval base in Guantanamo Bay are suffering from health or financial problems.

Another 50-plus Pakistanis are still being held in the notorious US prison for the last two years. None has been identified or charged for any crime. The Pakistan government officials who were allowed to visit the prison once have already declared that none of the jailed men was member of al-Qaeda. Islamabad was hoping for the release of its citizens but Washington has been slow to acknowledge that there was no case against the detained Pakistanis.

Mohammad Sagheer, the first Pakistani who was freed from Guantanamo Bay last year, has filed a case in an Islamabad court to seek compensation from the US government for illegally keeping him in detention for more than a year. The 53-year old villager from NWFP’s remote Kohistan district has been complaining in his newspaper interviews that his family was under heavy debt because it was deprived of the income that he brought home as its sole breadwinner.

“My unemployed son took loans in my absence to run the household. Another son cannot return home because he cannot face the creditors. A third son has become insane but I have no money to get him treated,” Sagheer complained in a recent interview.

Sagheer like the other freed Pakistanis wasn’t given the money that the US military authorities said he would get upon his release. Instead, he was given only $ 100 for expenses to reach home after being flown to Islamabad.

Shah Mohammad, the 25-year old from Allahdhand Dheray in Malakand Agency, was released six months ago but he has yet to come to terms with the situation. Besides financial problems, he is also suffering from psychological difficulties. “I wake up in my sleep at night and remember my days in the cell in Guantanamo Bay. It is a nightmare that I cannot forget,” he said. His neighbours say Shah Mohammad unlike the past is now a different man. They said he talks less and seldom smiles.

Wali, who was a tax-driver in Malakand Agency before he ventured to Afghanistan on the call of the Tanzim Nifaz Shariat-i-Mohammadi (TNSM) leader Maulana Sufi Mohammad to take part in jihad against the US forces in late 2001, is also a changed man. He seems fed up with the world and is unwilling to discuss anything. Efforts to make him say something proved futile.

But unlike Wali, another former Guantanamo Bay inmate Abdur Razzaq is keen to tell his story and discuss both his imprisonment and life after winning freedom. The emaciated young man holds a master’s degree in agriculture said there has been no change in his life after returning home to his village, Kot, in Malakand Agency. “I was jobless before I was arrested in Afghanistan and taken to Guanatanamo Bay and I am still unemployed. However, I now intend to preach Islam with a greater zeal than before,” he remarked.

http://peshawar1.com/htmls/rahimullah/rahim130.html

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Wali, who was a tax-driver in Malakand Agency before he ventured to Afghanistan on the call of the Tanzim Nifaz Shariat-i-Mohammadi (TNSM) leader Maulana Sufi Mohammad to take part in jihad against the US forces in late 2001...
[/QUOTE]

Well that's what he should be suing then.. the Tanzim and that Maulana.. freeze their assets, and the assets of their benefactors and provide reparations to Wali.

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Originally posted by Madhanee: *
**Fraudz, there’re only 50 odd Pakistanis at Guantanamo Bay, and roughly half were handed over by the NA to the Americans. You are telling me that some were distributing humanitarian aid? *

I am not saying it as a divine word. I am suggesting that it is possible. the Northern Alliance were nto some do gooders, they would have captured anyone and handed them over to get their piece of the post war afghan pie.

** I am curious, what Pakistani Charities were involved in Afghanistan? Because this is the first time I have heard such a thing. What I have read is that there were Christian Service Charities (some based in Peshawar) that were doing some work in Afghanistan, and Some Pakistan Banks coordinating money for Afghanistan, but they haven’t claimed anyone of them is a captive in Guatanamo. **

There were a number of charities, NGOs that were working in that area, but more than that there were volunteers who went after collecting warm clothes, and what nots to go give it to people themselves, not NGOs but ordinary people, who had no interest in fighting, such things have been going on since before taleban took over.

*Unless you are counting the ISI renegades who were helping Taliban put together a crude bomb (and 2 of them are in Guantanamo Bay and I hope they rot there). *

which they should..no argument

Most however, are just foot soldiers, and need to be freed, as they were ignorant fools.

agreed, i never said that is not the case, however it is possible that some ppl were there individually or with an NGo to provide humanitarian help.

*I agree with Lajwab, you are a half non-Mulsim and 70% jihadi. *

No thats only on 29th of february each leap year. today I am deobadni until noon and then bahai afterwards.

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Thanks for that article, Zakk. It was an interesting read.

MS, No i don't think i am being overly harsh on the Pakistani government. If anything, i feel strongly that people should hold their own government accountable in an even more stronger manner - you do not do it out of hate, you do it out of love. i expect more from people (and govts) when i know they are capable of giving more and not occupying the very shallow end of the moral spectrum.

[quote]
And the prisoners are NOT prisoners of Pakistan - no matter what evidence Pakistan might show for innocence, the men will not be released unless the USA believes that. The USA is the bottleneck in the release of these innocent men, not Pakistan.
[/quote]

The US is holding the prisoners, but the prisoners are of Pakistani citizenship. That fact makes them 100% the concern of the Pakistani government. The current US admin is responsible for many policies around the world; that does not mean they should get a free-ride to run rampant on our civil liberties or that of our citizens. Taali do haath sai bajti hai; of course the US is responsible for its own actions, but so are we. Even some European country (i think it was Italy) managed to arrange for the future transfer of one of their citizens from Cuba to Italy to face trial in his home country. So what is so difficult about the Pakistani government doing the same? What haven't we done for the US admin since 9-11 ? i think they atleast 'owe' us this one. You and i know any military tribunals presided over by Rumsfeld will be a dirty joke, there is no chance of anyone obtaining a free and fair trial. The duty of the Pakistani govt. is to protect its citizens at all costs from that mockery of a 'justice' system. Leverage is never freely given in any relationship, you have to demand it especially in politics.

[quote]
Furthermore, you are also harsh because your post makes the impression that Pakistan has accomplished nothing since September 2002, when it declared the men to be completely innocent.
[/quote]

So Pakistan declared the men to be innocent. That does not mean that gives us the right to rest - all efforts must continue. Why is it "harsh" of me to expect that the Pakistani govt. should continue in its efforts? We've had two years since 11 September and all that has been done is to declare that the men are innocent and a handful have been released while 50 remain languishing in God knows what type of conditions. No, i think i have the right to be harsh - i expect better standards from those closest to me, i expect my government not to behave like that of a benevolent dictatorship. i expect a neo-con Republican admin to trample civil liberties of innocent people, but i do not expect that from Musharraf's government and that is why it pains me to see that we have done very little in the way of helping our own citizens.

Read Zakk's article, it highlights what sad conditions some of these men return to after being separated from their families and their livelihoods for years... mounting debts, loans, psychological trauma. i can't get over the fact that these are 80 year old men, they are old enough to be our grandparents. What filthy conditions they are having to experience in Cuba, while their own government adopts a more passive route for their release. Whether or not we have 'leverage' over the US - that is not the issue. i imagine Italy doesn't possess much 'leverage' either with the US but they still managed to secure that condition for their citizen; we have bent over backwards for the US since 11 September. If anything, they owe us not the other way around.

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Re: Pakistani government & Guantanamo

Oh ye of little faith…

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Nothing is being done by Pakistan because most of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pashtuns.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
Nothing is being done by Pakistan because most of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pashtuns.
[/QUOTE]

See the previous post :D

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Many of us feel sorry for the poor sods who were misled by their preachers into war territory. Let god help them reach home quickly.

There could theoretically only be two types of Pakistanis in G'Bay - those who were reportedly handed over by the Pakistan government to the US and those who were captured in Afghanistan.

If some of the prisoners have been handed over by Pak govt. as those who criticise the govt. say, they are unlikely to be freed in the near future. In spite of what the Pak govt may say in public, they handed these people over because they found something against them.

The rest were captured in Afghanistan, in a war. They may have been misled and all that, bu they are effectively prisoners of war. The Pak govt can only request that they may be released - not because they are innocent, not because they have no connection with AlQaeda, or any other reason. These reasons are not applicable to POWs. The only reason the US can agree to release some is not to make the Pak govt. appear too impotent to its people.

Is the Pak govt. doing anything. A lot, I would think. Remember the press reports during the actual war in Afghanistan when the govt. was supposed to have run innumerable air sorties to air lift Pakistani citizens, including those who escaped from jails after capture.