Pakistani Forces Launch New al-Qaida Hunt

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
I dont admit jack, the interersts of Us, pakistan and these people were the same and these people unabashedly accepted the help. they were not coaxed into doing anything.
*

Wrong...US wanted to take revenge of Vietnam and Zia was playing a stooge in the hands of the CIA. The army had drawned these tribes into that senseless war, hence the army not only seriously disturbed the valadity of the Durand line but also drugs and klashnikov culture was inflicted in the society. Army was fully involved in the drugs traficking and supported the so-called Kashmiri jihad and to some extent its nuclerar program from that money. It is on the record that the first resistance against the soviet occupation was planned by the CIA and pakistani army in jalalabad, till then there was no comcept of jihad against the former soviet union neither among afghans nor among the tribes. I've already said it at one ocassio that giving power to Taliban was a fatal error of the army and I've never been a supporter of Taliban.

Ask Kashmiris, Baloh, Pakhtuns tribes all of them blame army for their wrong policy. You are the first person I came across who is blaming the normal civilians for the debacle.

22

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
don't behave like a child my dear friend and I'll never retract what I said against the army.
[/QUOTE]

what about what you said against me :)
behave like a child? why, it pains you face your own words?

23

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
Ask Kashmiris, Baloh, Pakhtuns tribes all of them blame army for their wrong policy. You are the first person I came across who is blaming the normal civilians for the debacle.
[/QUOTE]

army did not strong arm them into doing what they did, the people wanted to go wage "jihad" against the "god less russians" as you say. So who used who..they were all fine accepting the help right, at that time all was hunky dory.

lets not keep stuck in the past but look at the ground reality of today,. the tribals better shape up, learn to behave like acchay bacchay, leave their arrogance and false sense of pride, and cooperate in rounding up the al kayda criminals. If they try to protect them or support them they should get some chitrol.

24

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
It is on the record that the first resistance against the soviet occupation was planned by the CIA and pakistani army in jalalabad, till then there was no comcept of jihad against the former soviet union neither among afghans nor among the tribes.

[/QUOTE]

why is this statement in stark contrast to what you said earlier.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *Are you saying that the tribesmen, who were/are very conservative and religious and it's known to the whole world, should have ignored the call of jihad gainst the godless Russians
[/QUOTE]

so which one is it. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

25

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

seems liek alexander forgot to CC uncle sam on his email about his experience also, because the ass whooping they gave to taleban is pretty much evident.
[/QUOTE]

dont be ignorant...man u know the truth..

26

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *

dont be ignorant...man u know the truth..
[/QUOTE]

If the Taliban were not defeated, then please let me know the names of the cities that are under their control?

27

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
dont be ignorant...man u know the truth..
[/QUOTE]

oh my bad, Taleban did not get their butts whooped and ran away in Burqas. dang this overactive imagination...it seemed so real, but maybe you are right.. they won... mullah omar is still the grand poobah and runs teh country on a day to day basis

28

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *

dont be ignorant...man u know the truth..
[/QUOTE]

I think he is speaking quite factually. Counter these facts:-

1) However much we may not like it, is it not a fact that the "fiercely Pashtun" Taliban were driven out of power by the American's?

2) Is it not a fact that had it not been for the huge arms, money and logistical support of the Pakistan, the United States and key Gulf Arab states, and the outright military help of thousands of foreign fighters the Afghans could never have achieved what they did against the Soviets?

3) Also, is it not a clear fact that many, many "fierce Pashtun" warlords switched sides after being bought off by the American's, and betrayed their fellow Pashtuns in the Taliban. What honour is there in that?

29

[QUOTE]
oh my bad, Taleban did not get their butts whooped and ran away in Burqas. dang this overactive imagination...it seemed so real, but maybe you are right.. they won... mullah omar is still the grand poobah and runs teh country on a day to day basis
[/QUOTE]

Pir sahib its the Grand Poombah not poobah. Honestly, I thought you would know the importance of naming executive offices accurately. You sir offend my sense of propriety and you shall be hearing from my lawyer Rusty Shackleford

30

Fraudia uncle, kasay ho aaaap? :- )

I am willing to reply to your comments, only on the grounds that I won't be banned or my posts deleted. Other then that I don’t wish to waste my time.

I am willing to reply and entertain Malik bhai also, an x-pro-Talibani.

Question Malik bhai, did the US also buy you out?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *

Did the people in question comnplain when they got the support from US and Pakistan? they did not, at that time they did not consider it as someone telling them what to do, or to direct their moves. It was in their interest, now its US and Pakistan undoing what was done, so now pride and honor and all that comes into play?

when US was throwing weapons in these people's begging bowls, I did not see them complain, what happened to honor and pride then?

Now as far as hunting them down in tribal areas, I suppose theya re doing t because there isa higher chance of these clowns hiding there than at anarkali or rainbow shopping center.
[/QUOTE]

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There is nothing bad about seeing the errors of ones way. You should look into it Sultan Suri rora.

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It is not about one errors Imdad bhai, what I have come to learn is that it's all about one interests. Human nature is very selfish, sometimes it gets the best of you. I have looked into my errors many a times and have learned a great deal though. I agree with you on that.

33

:hehe: bhai, where did I make any statement supporting what the American’s did in Afghanistan? All I asked was a few questions, including why the Pashttun warlords sold out the Taliban for US dollars?

Now I hope you can answer the questions that Fraudia, myself and others have asked? :slight_smile:

34

Man you are talking ......
The Afghans and the USA didnt even get to fight on the ground, so where did you pull this defeat thing from. There hasnt even been any sort of of between us.

And man we let the Americans come in, otherwise we would have done the same as we did with the Soviet Might.

Malik73 , if we have a reputation of being fierce fighters then how could we have not defeat the Russians. Man i know people say the we were helped in weaponry stuff by the US, but man who used them? i will give you all the modern weapons to fight the Americans, but man where are you gona get the DARE or the heart to fight them.

Mad Scientist, for me there is no difference between Taliban and Afghans (Pashtuns). this was the propaganda of the Pakistanis and the USA to give a bad name to my nation. they represented us in media as a wild and unadvanced nation, but that was not the fact.

My Paki broz, its sad to say that ur country is gona be rubbed out of the world map in few years. we the Afghans created it and now its in our hands to disappeare it off the map too.

Besides all this i thank God for having me as Afghan in this WORLD.

Long Live Afghans - Long Live The Pashtun Might !

35

Sultan Suri Wrora, khyal de dai grano tormakho ta.
Ahmad Baba was right that we have no friends or that all the people surrounding our territories are our enemies and look for their own self interests.

and Mali Bhai i forgot to ask you a Q.
who let the USA to use its bases for money to bomb the proud Afghans?
because of uz thousands of Afghans got killed and are still being killed.

36

Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *
**Man you are talking ......
The Afghans and the USA didnt even get to fight on the ground, so where did you pull this defeat thing from. *

what were you expecting a kabbadi match, wrestling, or did they really expect US soldiers to ride on horsebacks with old klashnikovs to fight.

the taleban did do one thing very well. No one knew that people can run so damn fast while wearing Burqas, they showed it. I wonder how much noise their chooriyaan made when they ran like bats outta hell.

war is war, and the taleban got their asses kicked in a royal manner.

*And man we let the Americans come in, otherwise we would have done the same as we did with the Soviet Might. *

what was done to Soviet might was with outside help.
as long as you guys did nto do what you did to each other after teh soviets left it would have been okay.

"we let the americans come in"

umm hmmmm, sure.

** i will give you all the modern weapons to fight the Americans, but man where are you gona get the DARE or the heart to fight them. **

But may have the mind/brain to not engage in a war if its not needed. dialogue, discussions, diplomacy type of words needed to be added to teh afghan disctionary. If by your token pakistanis lack the dare or the heart, one can suggest that fghanis lack logic, brains and reasoning.

*for me there is no difference between Taliban and Afghans (Pashtuns). this was the propaganda of the Pakistanis and the USA to give a bad name to my nation. *

Majority of afghanis did nto see Taleban and pashtun as the same thing.

*they represented us in media as a wild and unadvanced nation, but that was not the fact. *

wild? well I suppose with teh damn civil war going on for decades, someone may get that idea, and as far as unadvanced..the health, education, industrial infrastucture was as backwards as the worst.

Please compile a list of new products that were developed in Afghanistan in the last lets say 30 years.

My Paki broz, its sad to say that ur country is gona be rubbed out of the world map in few years. we the Afghans created it and now its in our hands to disappeare it off the map too.

afghanis created it?
geedar bhapki.
okay so now afghans want to make Pakistan disappear off the map too.
right..
laaton kay bhoot hain.

Hows this for an idea, take care of your own country, get it out of 1732 and bring it in the 1980s atleast and then we will talk. shabaash

37

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aryan_Shponkai: *

Malik73 , if we have a reputation of being fierce fighters then how could we have not defeat the Russians. Man i know people say the we were helped in weaponry stuff by the US, but man who used them? i will give you all the modern weapons to fight the Americans, but man where are you gona get the DARE or the heart to fight them. **
[/QUOTE]

It's quite simple actually.

In the 1980's the Afghans were given vast amounts of material support from the outside world, and that is why they won against the Soviets. Now if you say that Afghans have this unique "DARE and heart" to fight, and could have won even without the external support, why did they then lose in 2001?

Btw, we may have given bases to the US at the time for limited purposes, but they were not used to bomb Afghanistan, which they carried out from their carriers in the Indian ocean, and from the NA controlled areas.

38

No country can stand the military might of the USA. The talibans were madrasa educated mullahs who had absolute no idea what they were actually doing. They were devoid of political acumen neither had they a well trained army and their arsenal was composed of old Kalashnikovs and some outdated tanks. Pakistan army created Taliban to acquire a so-called strategic-depth in Afghanistan, it's an another story that how later on Pakistan itself became a strategic-depth for Taliban.

It's better to run away than surrendering in mass like Pakistan army, which has an unbreakbale record of surrendering. Anyway it is good that Taliban has gone and Afghanistan has been freed of the yoke of pakistanis and their creature Taliban. Afghanistan is on a path to democracy with the help of Americans and I hope unlike their eastern neighbour they will establish democratic institutions and learn to live like a civilized nation.

39

Good that Taliban haven't heard this old saying, "discretion is the better part of valour".

40

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by shawaiz: *
Anyway it is good that Taliban has gone and Afghanistan has been freed of the yoke of pakistanis and their creature Taliban. Afghanistan is on a path to democracy with the help of Americans and I hope unlike their eastern neighbour they will establish democratic institutions and learn to live like a civilized nation.
[/QUOTE]

Well you got the words right, I too hope that afghanis can learn to live like a civilized nation and the punk warlords chill out shut up and behave.

So I agree with you, Afghanis owe a lot to US which is moving them towards democracy.

Hopefully teh tribalistic infighting, the warlords, the ethnic hatred between pashtuns and non pasthuns in afghanistan that has been going on since Soviets pulled out, will end too.

anyways, I thought we were talking about capturing those al qaeda nuts, not the afdghani nuts.