Do you think India will stay on the map after a Nuke war with Pakistan…
Indians! 
^^^
The LoC isn't a border.
It is nothing more than a line of control.
And Indian effort to control Azad Kashmir will necessitate an attack across the international border further south, to cut off supply lines to Azad Kashmir. Recall that much of Azad Kashmir's territory, particularly bordering Occupied Kashmir, is very mountainous and is prime defensive terrain. A well supplied armed force there could hold out for an exceptionally long time.
To take Azad Kashmir would require an entry into internationally recognised Pakistani territory to interdict supplies. This would require crossing a border.
Pakistan needs to be clear that violating the border will = nuclear destruction.
And of course there will be no more Pakistan following that. That's why i mentioned the term MAD - Mutually Assured Destruction.
It like letting someone know that they can try and punch you, but if they touch, then both ofyou are going down together.
Inorder to have a strong economy we need stablitiy. the only way in that region we can have stability is through defense spending.. but presently I don't think the defence budget is a big hinderance, as many development projects are going on. roads etx. as well the military is pushing for export of weapons..it should help offset the forex problem..but it will take time. The biggest problem in Pakistan is not the lack of resources but rather how they are implemented. which through such targeted programs as human development are going at a strong pace. I can only give you my limited example..where atleast two of my uncles are returning to set up business in Pakistan.. As they feel it is stable ecnough. Two factories is not a big thing for a nation of 146m. but floods start from drops of rain.
My take on this issue is that by dumping all the weapons in the world, and by spending billions in defence apparatus, still we wont be able to fight a war against the Indians unless we have a sound economy. In case of any conventional war, Pakistan wont be able to fight the Indians for more than 2-3 weeks. And that would be mainly due to our poor economic state. I was reading somewhere that, of the 10 Billion dollars that Pakistan has in foreign exchange, about 90 % are in American Banks. The day, Americans freeze those Pakistan would literally be in America's feet. My take on the topic is strong defence without sound economy is useless. Both go side by side, and at the moment we are supporting our defence at the expense of the economy.
Badshah,
"First of all I'm not a paki, I'm Pakistani. Since you don't know much about economic thought it would be waste of time on my part to explain it to."
Really. What is the difference between, Paki and Pakistani? It is Economics not the Economic you ....... By the way what courses have you taken at the UFT?
FARID
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Farid: *
Badshah,
"First of all I'm not a paki, I'm Pakistani. Since you don't know much about economic thought it would be waste of time on my part to explain it to."
Really. What is the difference between, Paki and Pakistani? It is Economics not the Economic you ....... By the way what courses have you taken at the UFT?
FARID
[/QUOTE]
Paki is a derogitory term used in britain, like how blacks are reffered to as "Nig$$$" . While Pakistani is a more respectful term. not that its any of your business what I'm doing at U of T. I'm a masters student with speacialty in finanacial economics (fianacial markets etx). economic thought is a reference to keynesian and other economists and their theories. economics is a subject. I don't why I'm sitting here teaching you english, as i said it would be a waste of time.
Actually I am a Pakistani in Britain, and I have heard Pakistanis call each other Paki's. It becomes a slur when someone else calls us Paki!!!!
Some facts and corrections:
Pakistan spends 39% approximately on Defence
In real terms, because of the decline in the Rupee, and the economy, spending on Defence has decreased. If the Economy was the priority, Pakistan would be able to spend more on the Armed forces. Pakistan also alcks the ability to fight a long war because of the poor industrial base, and would be unable to survive a partial blockade or sanctions. There is a short term way of reducing Armed forces expense, reform the Armed forces, make them more efficient. The potential for billions in savings is very much there, but the present fast growing Army bureacracy and its involvement in civilain ffairs degrades its ability to fight far worse then any enemy could.
It depends on the person…like how some blacks don’t mind being called that by other blacks…but that is beyond the point it is still derogatory.. Zakk I have a bit of a problem with the 39%…according to this article it is 29%… http://www.dawn.com/2002/09/26/top1.htm … but as our economic growth increases…due to stable conditions we can decrease the the percent spending. I’m not really going to get drawn into the argument of whether Pakistan can sustain a prolonged attack I’m no military expert so I’ll leave that to mad scientist. But we can draw from history any nation which is weak doesn’t remain free.
Bhadsha, does Russia ring the bell?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zaavia: *
Bhadsha, does Russia ring the bell?
[/QUOTE]
your over simplifiying the answer.. Russia was facing many other problems as well...the problem is Russia was the glasnost philosophy and how it was implemented. Comparing Pakistan with Russia is not proper..as they based there economy on command structure, as such they constantly had efficiency problem. Hence you had a nation which did remarkable well in the 60's all of a sudden running out of innovation. Pakistan is a very different case..since we have a mixed economy and there's is relatively good efficiency in the private sector. If Pakistan continues to privatise its "crown" corporations we will not run into that problem.. but don't get me wrong I'm not arguing that we match India Gun for Gun..we need to just keep a credible deterence..hence maintain stability. Pakistan just needs to keep Shaukat Aziz and you will see many more wonders. I can go on and on...but the conclusion will always read..."Comparing Russia and Pakistan is flawed."
One of the oldest arguments for the Nuclear programme, was that it was the ultimate deterance against attack. So we could afford cuts in Defence expenditure.
The Armed forces desperately need to be reformed, and as I said earlier, the greatest danger to their operative effectiveness is not India, but their constant involvement in civilian affairs.
hmmmm
Badshah,
"While Pakistani is a more respectful term. not that its any of your business what I'm doing at U of T. I'm a masters student with speacialty in finanacial economics (fianacial markets etx). economic thought is a reference to keynesian and other economists and their theories. economics is a subject. I don't why I'm sitting here teaching you english, as i said it would be a waste of time"
You have already wasted your time rather than studying bascis of economics to pass the courses. You are more stup....than I thought. And yes what kenesian has to do with Paki economy? I am surprised at your logic that Paki becomes respectable when it is called Pakistani. What a hoot!
FARID
Most of the budget is spent on houses, land, servants for army officers.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Farid: *
You have already wasted your time rather than studying bascis of economics to pass the courses. You are more stup....than I thought. And yes what kenesian has to do with Paki economy? I am surprised at your logic that Paki becomes respectable when it is called Pakistani. What a hoot!
FARID
[/QUOTE]
.
This is the funniest statement I've ever read in my life. Kenesian is the most basic of theories... people in foundation courses know about it. If I was stupid..I wouldn't have made it this far... UofT doesn't give admission to dumb people especially in the masters program. Farid I kinda feel sorry for you now...this is how low you have to get to write an argument. the statements..what does kenesian economics have to do with Pakistani economics...haha...I wonder if there are any other economists who have read this..they would be laughing so hard...If I were you I would quicky edit it before anyone else sees. Without getting to involved do you know kenesian theory is used to determine something basic as interest rates..in the bond market. I'm not really sure what you don;t understand regarding Paki, its a derogatory term which is used by people in a negative manner. everyone has there own tastes, Zakk may not mind..its his choice. it doesn't make the term right to be used. What else is there to explain.
Thanx for calling me stupid, as it shows that since your running out of arguments your just now throwing hot air.
but as I said earlier this argument has become dead, you've stopped giving constructive arguments and have rather chosen to shoot personal attacks.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by munnabhai: *
the theory that the military is the guardian of pakistan's interest is not true. i think that pakistan has no threat from india. to clarify matters, look at who started the wars between india and pakistan. and now with the nuclear weapon in place, there is no need to fear an attack by india-this is not to mean that pakistan can get away with keeping on harming india. the india threat is magnified by the pak military to keep its stranglehold on power. so pakistan would do well to concentrate on its economy. this does not mean that the military should be neglected. it means that pakistan should maintain a military that matches its size and economy-not one that matches india's size and economy.
[/QUOTE]
"I think that pakistan has no threat from india"
You are living in a dream world. Please read the Indo-Pak history before making naive statements. It may be of interest to know that even Qaid-e-Azam, known as the 'Ambassador of Hindu/Muslim Unity' had to adopt a hard line and created Pakistan. And subsequent events have proved that you cannot co-exist with the Indians on even terms. India has always seen to it that Pakistan is weakened and ultimately wants to destroy it. The great threat to Pakistan is from some of our politicians who are trying to create a hatred for the Pakistan Army. They should know that if the Pakistan Army is weak, it will be the Indian Army they will have to contend with, like the Kashmiris in Indian Occupied Kashmir.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Imdad Ali: *
Most of the budget is spent on houses, land, servants for army officers.
[/QUOTE]
And the remaining is stored in Swiss Banks in account of your bosses!
well said tshombe39!
But that was the handy work of ISI.. You see ISI planted all these accounts in S-Land, UK, US stashing billions so our innocent politicians (if you can call them politicians) look bad. So therefore I declare Budnazar, Mr. 10 percent, Gunja and abaji innocent and summon ISI for explanation. 