Talk when they win a series against a top side away from home.
The drawn series against India in India to draw the series was a good achievement,** however other the series against Sri Lanka can we really see as a great success**? Some of their Sri Lankan leading players were not playing in that series and also the fact that Sri Lanka is not as strong as it used to be.
Beating England at Multan when Pakistan was about to lose the match. I thought it was one of the famous victories of Pakistan in recent time.
Beating India at Karachi after being 6 down for 30 runs in the first innings.
If you can't consider them great successes, then god knows what will please you.
Honestly speaking I have never seen you writing any thing positive about Pakistan cricket, which makes me think that you are not a Pakistani fan. If that is the case than it is understandable why you are so negative about Pakistan.
Please enlighten me, what are the major accomplishments of
1: India (beside beating Pakistan in ODI series), they lost the series with Pakistan, couldn't win the series against England.
2. England (Ashes victory is almost history).
3. Srilanka, 4. Windies, don't even remember when was the last time they did something extraordinary
5. South Africa, except for the ODI series victory, their @$$e$ have been kicked big time by Australia recently.
Don't want to disrespect all these teams but honestly speakin, after comparing Pakistan's recent record with all these teams, one would fail to understand your negative mentality.
No sir - if Pakistan wins in England it will be great achievement where conditions are different to what they are used to. It will especially test the technique of each batsmen and how they adjust and play will be a sign of how a good player some one is.
You are right about England winning at home and losing away from home but they managed to beat West Indies in West Indies (even though you may call this history) which Pakistan couldn't do. As far as I remember they also beat South Africa away from home both in ODI and test series ( again which you may call history). Have Pakistan ever managed to do that??????????? NOPE.
I know Pakistan has won previous series in England. One important thing to remember is that teams which won in England in the past had some great individual players Javed, Imran, Abdual Qadir to name a few in 1987, Javed Miandad, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram etc in 1992 and there were more positives then negatives which is not the case of this current lot.
If they win the test series in England I assure you that I will be a very happy man and the big question is will they?
Beating India at Karachi after being 6 down for 30 runs in the first innings.
If you can't consider them great successes, then god knows what will please you.
Honestly speaking I have never seen you writing any thing positive about Pakistan cricket, which makes me think that you are not a Pakistani fan. If that is the case than it is understandable why you are so negative about Pakistan.
Please enlighten me, what are the major accomplishments of
1: India (beside beating Pakistan in ODI series), they lost the series with Pakistan, couldn't win the series against England.
2. England (Ashes victory is almost history).
3. Srilanka, 4. Windies, don't even remember when was the last time they did something extraordinary
5. South Africa, except for the ODI series victory, their @$$e$ have been kicked big time by Australia recently.
Don't want to disrespect all these teams but honestly speakin, after comparing Pakistan's recent record with all these teams, one would fail to understand your negative mentality.
Yes you are right these were also great results. If they had won similar types of tests against a top side away from home then this would have been even bigger achievement and success.
Is there much positive about Pakistan cricket at the moment? Seriously apart from these results you mentioned what else is there positive to write about? Mohammed Asif, Kamran Akmal and some other individual performances etc. Where are the so called natural talented players – I am sure there are plenty but why are not coming through? Obviously there is a fault somewhere in the system why young players especially batsmen are not coming up who are good enough to play international cricket.
The opening positions we keep bringing back likes of Farhat and when he is out of form – Butt is likely to be brought back. Why do we have to keep on going back to tried and tested players, how much more time do they need to settle down? Apart from Shoiab Akhtar, Mohammed Asif and Kaneria – do we really have a true test bowler who can bowl a good side out twice? When Akhtar is not playing the bowling becomes even weaker. Inzmam Ul Haq as a captain – his leadership qualities has been discussed so many times – is positive written about him or more negative?
Pakistan fielding compared to the other side is not up to international standard and they are looking to recruit Rhodes. I wonder what difference he is going to make to the likes of sleeping Inzi and Kaneria in the field.
May you can highlight the reasons why fielding standard in the Pakistan team is not great?
I am not talking about or comparing Pakistan to other teams, so I am not going to bring the other teams into the debate. However I will answer your questions:
[1] Yes – you don’t expect to win everything – they won the ODI but drew the test series.
[2] England drawing the series in India – coming from behind. Similar to the Pakistan achievement on their last tour to India. Also – beating South Africa in South Africa – (yes its history but shouldn’t be forgotten). Has Pakistan ever won there – even with their best side?????????????
[3] Yes you are right. Not the same teams anymore.
[4] At least they managed to beat Austrlia in the ODI? So beating the Worls best team in the ODI’s doesn’t seem a big accomplishment then?
Also - don't bring India into the debate as I am not Indian and the discussion is about the Pakistan team. If you want to discuss India – then I am sure you will find plenty of other forums where you can argue and debate with Indians and willing to take you on.
So to criticise or being negative does that make me not a supporter of Pakistan? So by just concentrating on just the positives guarantee me the title of Pakistan supporter? The likes of Aamir Sohail and Javed Miandad – who are always critical of the Pakistan team – does that make them not a supporter of Pakistan team and they have played for Pakistan.
You are right about England winning at home and losing away from home but they managed to beat West Indies in West Indies (even though you may call this history) which Pakistan couldn't do. As far as I remember they also beat South Africa away from home both in ODI and test series ( again which you may call history). Have Pakistan ever managed to do that??????????? NOPE.
If they win the test series in England I assure you that I will be a very happy man and the big question is will they?
I guess your criteria of judging teams is that if team A, beats Team B, than Team C also has to beat B. otherwise C is not better than A.
So following the criteria, if England have beaten South Africa and Windies than they have also lost to SL and India. Against SL and Ind Pakistan were victorious.
The bottom line is that this is not a criteria of judging teams.
If you really want to use a criteria, you can assess the recent performance of Pakistan India and England. These 3 teams are currently competing for the #2 spot in test cricket. You will see which team is the best.
In my opinoin the upcoming series between Pakistan and England will unofficially decide who is the No: 2 in the test cricket. So don't jump to conclusions and lets wait for it to come.
The bottom line is that this is not a criteria of judging teams.
If you really want to use a criteria, you can assess the recent performance of Pakistan India and England. These 3 teams are currently competing for the #2 spot in test cricket. You will see which team is the best.
In my opinoin the upcoming series between Pakistan and England will unofficially decide who is the No: 2 in the test cricket. So don't jump to conclusions and lets wait for it to come.
I am not jumping to conclusions mate. Like you said we have to wait till the up coming series between England and Pakistan.
So you are guessing my criteria - so what is your criteria of judging a team??????????????????????
When we started the discussion, it was about Pakistan's performance in the last 1 and 1/2 year. They have been impressive at home and away during that period.
Is there much positive about Pakistan cricket at the moment? Seriously apart from these results you mentioned what else is there positive to write about? Mohammed Asif, Kamran Akmal and some other individual performances etc. Where are the so called natural talented players – I am sure there are plenty but why are not coming through? Obviously there is a fault somewhere in the system why young players especially batsmen are not coming up who are good enough to play international cricket.
I guess the whole world except you has noticed that Pakistan cricket has changed drastically during the last 1 and half year.
As far as fault in the system goes, tell me honestly if this is a new problem. Our system has always been faulty but still youngsters have been able to perform just because of sheer talent. You don't expect superstars to born every other day. I think it is positive enough for Pakistan that Kamran Akmal, Mohammad Asif, Kaneria, Afridi, Razzaq etc have been impressive during this period.
Yes I agree with you about opening. It is a problem for Pakistan team. But than again all the teams have their own sets of problems and issues.
Pakistan have been struggling with the opening pair since the departure of Saeed Anwar and Sohail. Frankly speaking, Butt is the best thing happened to Pakistan after Saeed Anwar. He just needs a little bit of improvement in technique, confidence, and luck.
Pakistan fielding compared to the other side is not up to international standard and they are looking to recruit Rhodes. I wonder what difference he is going to make to the likes of sleeping Inzi and Kaneria in the field.
May you can highlight the reasons why fielding standard in the Pakistan team is not great?
You are basically complaining about problems which have been there for the last 10-15 years, but you sound like as if they develop within the last year and all of a sudden, state of Pakistan cricket has become pathetic. What you are not acknowleding is the improvement is all these department along with the overall improvement.
I am not talking about or comparing Pakistan to other teams, so I am not going to bring the other teams into the debate. However I will answer your questions:
I think thats what you are doing.
So to criticise or being negative does that make me not a supporter of Pakistan? So by just concentrating on just the positives guarantee me the title of Pakistan supporter? The likes of Aamir Sohail and Javed Miandad – who are always critical of the Pakistan team – does that make them not a supporter of Pakistan team and they have played for Pakistan.
So are you admitting that you are like Sohail and Miandad?
I don't think it's a very good idea, after watcing them both and listening their comments on TV during the last one year. I think it is a well known fact that these 2 have been criticising Pakistan recently, just for the sake of criticising.
So you are guessing my criteria - so what is your criteria of judging a team??????????????????????
A team's own performance and not the performance of others. If England has beaten Australia, than good for them. That doesn't mean that Pakistan cricket sucks.
So who is discussing the performance of others – you are the one who has brought the performance of other teams into the debate. Have I mentioned or stated anywhere that Pakistan cricket sucks? NOPE.
Yes I brought the performance of other teams after you started the whole discussion by saying that
Thats a shame, they could have used the opprtunity to improve the averages of the entire team on the dead and flat pitches of Pakistan and get the fans excited again as to how brillant some of the players are ..........
and even then I didn't bring performance of other team. I only said that Pakistan have been briliant in the last 1 and half years and you said,
So why can't they maintain the brilliance..? I know every player goes through bad patch but with Pakistani players it is different........
So yes, you never mentioned the word "sucked" in above two statements and then the later ones. I don't know why it sounded like you meant that Pakistan cricket sucks. I apologize for that. Never realized that it was a different style of complimenting.
Yes already mentioned the victories at home against England and India including the drawn series in India. Other than that what other really impressive performance away from home would you say – Sri Lankan test series win. One thing to remember is that a team may win but the performance may not have been impressive or up to their standards. It seems to me that if a team wins it will be regarded as a good performance or impressive performance by you. A team may lose but the manner which it loses could also be regarded as a good performance.
So every single person in the World would agree with you that this has happened? What drastic changes have been made apart from the series wins at home and away you keep on referring to? So you would call this drastic changes?
I am not just complaining but I am sure there are others who feel the same and didn’t mention that these have been developed in the last year. Again if it’s old problem then – this again needs to be highlighted – we just can’t leave it alone and use the stats i.e. series wins as a basis for judging improvements. Our batting line is still brittle and bowling with the exception of Shoiab and Asif not consistent and impressive. However Waqar Younis introduction is a move in the right direction and his presence will again no doubt help.
Nope – you are wrong there again mate. I have not brought other teams into the debate. In fact you are the one who was asking me questions about other teams. See below your comments:
By highlighting the negatives does it make me like them? In fact both of them complain about Bob Woolmer and I am a firm supporter of him as coach of Pakistan team and think his appointment is good for overall cricket of Pakistan. So really I can’t be like them.
Sounding and meaning are two different things maybe you understand them in the same way. You don't need to apologize. We are entitled to our opinions and you can't enforce your views on one another - not saying you are. Again no need to apologize.
Pakistan has only played with India, England, WI and SL during the last 1 and half year. How can I show you or tell you about their performance against other teams when they haven’t played against them
I never said that the whole world should agree with me. Infact I am agreeing with the whole world. The change which every one has noticed is the fighting spirit of the team. Instead of going down without a fight they started to show some spirit
Back in Bangalore in 2005, than in the 2005 ODI series against India.
In Windies when we are 0-1 (by the way Pakistan was without Inzi and Yousuf in the first match over there, just like you said Srilanka were missing some key players in the last series).
Against England at Multan, there was no hope to win the match on the last day.
Against India Karachi, the 6 early wickets in the first innings were good enough for crushing any side in the world.
In Srilanka, saving a certain defeat in the first test and than at Kandy, getting rid of Srilanka for 73 when they already were 109 runs ahead in a pressure match.
Yes on occasions, our performance was below standard, but most of the time we were brilliant and in my opinion it is really unfair to sum up the team’s performance by saying that
I look forward to your response and analysis after the tour has been completed.
Yes there have been drastic changes in terms of the series results you have highlighted and the fighting spirit. I think the fighting spirit has always been there but lacked consistency.
It seems to me that drastic changes are the series results you have highlighted – however what I meant to state or should have clarified is that there haven’t really been other drastic changes to the overall Pakistan set up, for example – we still have the same selection committee who seems to be making selection based upon the names put forward to them and they don’t actually go out and look for talent, the National Cricket Academy was created but is not functioning because they can’t find the coaches etc.
If any change had taken place to improve the overall structure of Pakistan cricket in the time period you are discussing then we would regard it as a drastic change. I am not aware of any other drastic change which has taken place, if there is then please let me know.
Since you agree with the whole world – do you agree with Imran Khans comments? See the link below:
Also – one thing which can be regarded as a drastic change and I am surprised you didn’t mention is the Pakistani players being preached and lectured by the Tableeghi Jamat and praying together. Maybe you didn’t include it as it doesn’qualify the time period of 1 and half year. I am not going to the argument of whether this is good idea or not but it certainly is a drastic change to the Pakistan cricket set up.
Chalein ab aap donon jaldi sey eik dosrey ki jhappi daal lein, bhaiyyon ki tarah.
PCB has invited the Zimbabwe Cricket Union (ZCU) to play two four-day games against its A team and three One-day Internationals (ODIs) against the national side before the ICC Champions Trophy in India this year.
Zimbabwe were due to tour Pakistan to play three Tests and five ODIs this year after the Champions Trophy but after the ZCU decided not to play any Tests until next year due to the boycott by their leading players, Pakistan has been reluctant to host them only for a one-day series.
“Basically we’ve given them two options: One is they come in September on their way to India for the Champions Trophy and play two four-day games against the Pakistan A side and then three ODIs against the senior team,” Shaharyar Khan said.
“Although we are keen to give our senior players proper rest after they return from the England tour around September 12 before they go to India for the Champions Trophy, we’ve discussed this with them and I don’t think playing just three ODIs would be that much of a burden on them."
He said the second proposal to the ZCU was to postpone the tour altogether and tour next year in April to play a full series by which time their board would’ve restored their team’s Test status.
In your opinion, is this the correct decision taken? Should our National Team compete in the three ODI’s against Zimbabwe giving up valuable time in taking the much-needed break from the hectic schedule not to mention fulfilling the TV rights, or should they have rather gone with the initial proposed itinerary to play a full series in the April season?
No, absolutely NOT!!
Let our players take the much needed rest before the Champions Trophy. It's a professional field and rest is as important as practicing for the games.
Not playing against Zim won't hurt PCB at all and overall, crowds in Pak won't have a spark to watch these games in any case.
Umer
